Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 1/12/2007 6:05:31 PM   
HMS Resolution


Posts: 350
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline
What's a good CAP ratio? It seems like IJN attack craft will always break through, and Zeroes will always overwhelm escorts. Is there a workable ratio?
Post #: 1
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 1/12/2007 9:56:07 PM   
Hoplosternum


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline
Well it depends

I usually set my CV CAP when playing the allies to about 70%. But it depends on how many CVs I have in the hex (usually I keep each CV in its own TF but have multiple CV TFs in one hex - they combine CAPs). This is because I value the CV more than the bomber squadrons on it. If I was going up against the IJ CVs then I might lower this level. I don't mind losing mine to kill his! But you can so rarely guarantee a fair fight and there is little worse than seeing a Datai of Betty's flying through and nailing a CV just because your Wildcats are hoping to punch a path through for your Dauntlesses. So usually even if expecting a fight with the

You cannot guarantee that your strike will get through the big CAP over Kido Butai, nor that the Wildcats will even escort your main strike. Plus the Japanese are deadly to the US CVs at range 5 (250KG bombs will sink US CVs) while your bombers can't reach his. Even with the Avengers having range 5 their bombs at that range (500lbers) will not hurt Kaga, Akagi, Shokaku or Zuikaku. So I focus firstly on defence. Besides CAPs, even large ones, get tired and become less and less effective with each strike. Even if they still have the same strength.

By your profile you are fairly new. So be aware that CAP is one of the 'issues' many of us have with WitP.

In real life CVs could not put a 70% up except for a very short period. Certainly not early on in the war when radar was simply not reliable enough and you needed to keep planes up at all times. In practice they would have about a third or a quarter up with the next third / quarter ready to replace them when they needed. The rest were likely to be held back ready to escort a strike. But in WitP you get all the ones you ask for - all day. There is no halving or thirding of CAP to get a more realistic figure.

This is compounded by another WitP phenomena - that air combat becomes far more deadly as the numbers get bigger. So for CAP the more you have the better it gets until eventually it becomes so good nothing gets through at all. The 'UBER' CAP phenomena. Basically a CAP of 30 is more than twice as good as 15, and 60 is much more than twice as good as one of 30. Rather than diminishing returns we have the opposite. Above a certain number an Uber CAP is likely to kill every strike aircraft, unless overwhelmed - when just about every bomber then gets through. But one side is highly likely to be wiped out. WitP does not handle large air combats well. They are far far too deadly.

So if you (and your opponent - AI or human) masses CVs you are likely to get Uber CAP and mass air combats. These give highly unrealistic results. Although they can keep those flattops safe

_____________________________

Allies vs Belphegor Jul 43 2.5:2.5 in CVs
Allies vs Drex Mar 43 0.5:3 down in CVs
Japan vs LtFghtr Jun 42 3:2 down in CVs
Allies vs LtFghtr Mar 42 0:1 down in CVs
(SEAC, China) in 3v3 Apr 42
Allies vs Mogami Mar 42 0:1 down in CVs

(in reply to HMS Resolution)
Post #: 2
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 1/28/2007 7:23:36 PM   
Marc gto

 

Posts: 229
Joined: 9/25/2000
From: Batavia,ohio,usa
Status: offline
good advice

(in reply to Hoplosternum)
Post #: 3
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 1/29/2007 4:06:58 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6588
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
Vs. KB, I set cap at around 50%, even though you really shouldn't be going vs. KB with your CVs (unless you have a decided advantage).
a. In 1942, no amount of USN CAP can stop KB if it’s looking to kill you.
b. You do want enough fighters up to survive KB’s fighter escorts, so you can at least hurt his experienced bomber squadrons.
c. You also need to insure that you have enough escorts to get your own bombers thru. Now, your escorts will -not- do well vs. KB’s CAP; don’t think that your escorts are going to down many of KB’s fighters. But the point of your escorts is simply to insure that enough of your bombers get thru to make KB pay for killing you (remember MAD from the 80s?); it’s the difference between a wholesale slaughter of your bombers, and merely “heavy losses” where you at least sink a couple of KB’s CVs for your efforts.

Vs. LBA, CAP can be run at around 70%. You can/should wratchet up your CAP vs. LBA because:
a. The Japanese army fighter sqdns aren’t as good as KB. While they are capable, they won’t effect the slaughter of your own fighters that KB will.
b. Bettys can be tough to knock down. You’ll need the extra fighters to drive off as many of them as possible.
c. Then ask yourself why you’re tangling with Japanese LBA with your CVs anyway? Why risk your CVs, that’s what your B-17s are for.

-F-


_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to Marc gto)
Post #: 4
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 1/29/2007 4:47:17 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 13121
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HMS Resolution

What's a good CAP ratio? It seems like IJN attack craft will always break through, and Zeroes will always overwhelm escorts. Is there a workable ratio?



In early 42 the best solution would be to avoid the IJN with your carriers. In 90% of the cases it will be a terrible disaster for the Allied (though sometimes you get lucky).

If I would have to take on KB I would set my CAP to only 20 or 30% to have lots of escorts to do at least damage to the Jap carriers. My Allied CVs would be one shot weapons anyway, no matter if a CAP of 90 or 20.

(in reply to HMS Resolution)
Post #: 5
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 1/29/2007 9:38:43 PM   
cavalry

 

Posts: 2565
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline
testing




Attachment (1)

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 6
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 3/4/2007 12:48:18 AM   
slbm

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/4/2007
Status: offline
Hello, I have a bit different question. Is there any way to force your carrier-borne dive bombers - SBDs for example - to scramble against an incoming enemy air raid, so they can attempt to intercept enemy bombers, while the both sides' fighters are fighting each other?

(in reply to cavalry)
Post #: 7
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 3/4/2007 1:12:19 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 13121
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slbm

Hello, I have a bit different question. Is there any way to force your carrier-borne dive bombers - SBDs for example - to scramble against an incoming enemy air raid, so they can attempt to intercept enemy bombers, while the both sides' fighters are fighting each other?



no, that isn´t possible...

(in reply to slbm)
Post #: 8
RE: CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? - 3/4/2007 1:30:34 AM   
slbm

 

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/4/2007
Status: offline
Well, I thought so :( Thanks for the reply

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 9
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> CAP Ratios for USN CVs in early '42? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.124