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RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for?

 
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RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 4:32:52 PM   
Nemo69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll
There is a scenario that I want to modify....it is fine except the values on some of the units are too strong. I thought that might be a (fairly simple) test. OR should I wait 'till something official (elegant or ugly) comes out?

You had better wait it out, trust me


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Post #: 31
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 4:34:49 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll

Just jump into the (unit)editor?


Let's be clear: the BioEd is an equipment editor. If you want to edit units, do it in TOAW.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to TOCarroll)
Post #: 32
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 5:36:05 PM   
TOCarroll


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OK.......re-read my last post, and the question becomes: What do I do, just jump into the equipment editor? I would still like to know if it is wise to hook Bio-ed to a seperate copy of TAOW3 just so idiots like me font f*** up PBEM games.

_____________________________

"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 33
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 6:08:39 PM   
ralphtricky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll
OK.......re-read my last post, and the question becomes: What do I do, just jump into the equipment editor? I would still like to know if it is wise to hook Bio-ed to a seperate copy of TAOW3 just so idiots like me font f*** up PBEM games.

I'm causing too much confusion by trying to remain cryptic. Let me speak plainly. These are 'forward looking statements' and are still in development. We may run across something that makes this impossible, so take this with a grain of salt.

BioEd was written by a third party, nobody has heard from him in a while, and I haven't been able to reach him. It was designed to edit early versions of the TOAW executable. I'm not a VB6 person, and I haven't been able update BioEd. VB6 won't work correctly on my system, someone else can try if they want. BioEd also has the capability to store the edited data into a separate data file, instead of the executable.

SInce Jean-Luc's efforts at writing an editor have stalled, and I've made significant changes to the way that data is stored in TOAW, we've decided to store the equipment data in a separate file that can be loaded when that scenario starts in a manner similar to the way that scenario specific graphics are loaded..

WIth any luck you'll be able to use BioEd to edit the equipment data only, and store it in a separate file that will be automatically loaded when that scenario is loaded. If you have a currently modded TOAW-COW scenario, you've already done the hardest part.

There are some caveats. We're working on figuring out what those are. For example, the equipment slots are capped at what is currently in TOAW-COW. Scenario graphics are handled differently in TOAW III from TOAW-COW, so much of BioEd's editing aren't useful, etc.

Ralph


_____________________________

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TOAW IV Programmer
Blog: http://operationalwarfare.com
---
My comments are my own, and do not represent the views of any other person or entity. Nothing that I say should be construed in any way as a promise of anything.

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Post #: 34
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 7:55:19 PM   
TOCarroll


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Muchos Gratias

_____________________________

"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 35
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 8:55:07 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll
OK.......re-read my last post, and the question becomes: What do I do, just jump into the equipment editor? I would still like to know if it is wise to hook Bio-ed to a seperate copy of TAOW3 just so idiots like me font f*** up PBEM games.

I'm causing too much confusion by trying to remain cryptic. Let me speak plainly. These are 'forward looking statements' and are still in development. We may run across something that makes this impossible, so take this with a grain of salt.

BioEd was written by a third party, nobody has heard from him in a while, and I haven't been able to reach him. It was designed to edit early versions of the TOAW executable. I'm not a VB6 person, and I haven't been able update BioEd. VB6 won't work correctly on my system, someone else can try if they want. BioEd also has the capability to store the edited data into a separate data file, instead of the executable.

SInce Jean-Luc's efforts at writing an editor have stalled, and I've made significant changes to the way that data is stored in TOAW, we've decided to store the equipment data in a separate file that can be loaded when that scenario starts in a manner similar to the way that scenario specific graphics are loaded..

WIth any luck you'll be able to use BioEd to edit the equipment data only, and store it in a separate file that will be automatically loaded when that scenario is loaded. If you have a currently modded TOAW-COW scenario, you've already done the hardest part.

There are some caveats. We're working on figuring out what those are. For example, the equipment slots are capped at what is currently in TOAW-COW. Scenario graphics are handled differently in TOAW III from TOAW-COW, so much of BioEd's editing aren't useful, etc.

Ralph



Obviously, the solution is to hunt down Biohazard and kill...no wait, kidnap him. Then drag him back in chains to update his editor. If it'll help, I'll apologize for arguing France could have fought on from North Africa in 1940.

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Post #: 36
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 9:02:30 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll

OK.......re-read my last post, and the question becomes: What do I do, just jump into the equipment editor? I would still like to know if it is wise to hook Bio-ed to a seperate copy of TAOW3 just so idiots like me font f*** up PBEM games.


Primarily, the Bioeditor lets you alter the characteristics of equipment in ACOW. For example, in his Poland scenario, Ben makes use of it to give German tanks a recon ability, making Panzer units much more capable of deep penetration. In Seelowe I do a lot of things with it. I've taken some unit I don't use anyway and given it the characteristics of the ca 1930 Vickers Mark II (or something). I make it call up a different tile for 'rocky.' Various other things.

The point is that one loads the ACOW .exe into this thing and then saves the results as a new .exe file. Now what would happen if you tried to load the ACOW III executable into this instead I couldn't say. If I hear of an unexplained nuclear explosion and you stop posting, I'll have a better idea.

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Post #: 37
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 9:13:56 PM   
vahauser


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I'm very confused by this thread.

Most unit editors I've used look sort of like spread sheets where you can simply change the unit data fields. And once you save your changes then the game remembers those changes for any future scenario.

Somebody please un-confuse me regarding the TOAWIII unit editor.



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Post #: 38
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 10:26:16 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

I'm very confused by this thread.

Most unit editors I've used look sort of like spread sheets where you can simply change the unit data fields. And once you save your changes then the game remembers those changes for any future scenario.

Somebody please un-confuse me regarding the TOAWIII unit editor.




Well, note that one is not editing units. One is editing the characteristics of the weapons that make up the unit. Beyond that, the simplist thing to do would be to download the Bioeditor and open it. Things should be clearer at that point.

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Post #: 39
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/21/2006 10:26:58 PM   
ColinWright

 

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..

< Message edited by ColinWright -- 11/21/2006 10:52:37 PM >


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Post #: 40
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 1:21:07 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

There are some caveats. We're working on figuring out what those are. For example, the equipment slots are capped at what is currently in TOAW-COW.


This is a non-issue. Scenarios of even the broadest possible scope currently use rather less than half of the available slots. For my own efforts, I have duplicated many of the common equipment types in modified .exes, as well as adding some new items. I've not found the need to add more than perhaps eighty peices of equipment, leaving me several times as much space again.

_____________________________

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"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 41
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 1:32:09 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright
Well, note that one is not editing units. One is editing the characteristics of the weapons that make up the unit. Beyond that, the simplist thing to do would be to download the Bioeditor and open it. Things should be clearer at that point.


As it stands, one can't do that without having COW installed, or having TOAW III installed and making a number of changes to the system.

TOAW III .exes won't open in BioEd at all.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 42
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 4:35:04 PM   
freeboy

 

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ok, you can add just not modify? so if I wanted to make a Tiger II stronger, could I not just add it under a different name.. spelling etc? or did missunderstand totally above.. thanks

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Post #: 43
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 5:44:23 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, you can add just not modify? so if I wanted to make a Tiger II stronger, could I not just add it under a different name.. spelling etc? or did missunderstand totally above.. thanks


In fact it's pretty much the reverse- you can modify but not add. However effectively one can add equipment by overwriting items you're not going to use.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 44
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 7:04:18 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, you can add just not modify? so if I wanted to make a Tiger II stronger, could I not just add it under a different name.. spelling etc? or did missunderstand totally above.. thanks


In fact it's pretty much the reverse- you can modify but not add. However effectively one can add equipment by overwriting items you're not going to use.


Well, there are slots for a dozen or so pieces of new equipment. However, I'm starting to almost prefer writing over equipment in the appropriate catagory. Already nicely sorted that way.

_____________________________

I am not Charlie Hebdo

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Post #: 45
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 9:02:58 PM   
TOCarroll


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Thanks for the expllaiation Ralph, Colin, Golden, et al. If it DOES come to pass, please include "Unit Editinf for Dummies"

_____________________________

"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).

(in reply to ColinWright)
Post #: 46
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 9:33:22 PM   
freeboy

 

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ok, now I really am lost.. first you said
quote:

as well as adding some new items
.. maybe you should use create.. but so I understand.. no new items.. just modified equipment strength etc?

< Message edited by freeboy -- 11/23/2006 3:15:50 AM >

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Post #: 47
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/22/2006 11:46:46 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll

Thanks for the expllaiation Ralph, Colin, Golden, et al. If it DOES come to pass, please include "Unit Editinf for Dummies"


yes.

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Post #: 48
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/24/2006 6:05:21 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, now I really am lost.. first you said
quote:

as well as adding some new items
.. maybe you should use create.. but so I understand.. no new items.. just modified equipment strength etc?


Well, to be precise, yes. But if you take "Biplane Fighter (late)", change all the numbers, and rename it to "FW-190 F/G", you've pretty much added a new item, replacing the old one.


_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 49
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/25/2006 12:26:55 AM   
freeboy

 

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right, so we can modify included name making a new item.. thanks.. cannot what to play around .. feeling like a kid in a candy shop

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Post #: 50
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/25/2006 5:37:47 PM   
TOCarroll


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Now I am more confused than ever. With the present TAOW3 System, can we change the combat factors (or movement factors) of a unit, or create a unit in the database (say PZ 4 Batallion) with modified combat or movement factors? Put another way, do you need Bio Ed to do the above, or is it for creating or units that are not already in the database?

I own the game, love the game, but it can be confusing, espically the design/modify scenarios part.

_____________________________

"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 51
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/25/2006 5:51:49 PM   
Telumar


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll

Now I am more confused than ever. With the present TAOW3 System, can we change the combat factors (or movement factors) of a unit, or create a unit in the database (say PZ 4 Batallion) with modified combat or movement factors? Put another way, do you need Bio Ed to do the above, or is it for creating or units that are not already in the database?

I own the game, love the game, but it can be confusing, espically the design/modify scenarios part.


Principally No.

With BioEdit, the only equipment editor yet, you can modify the equipment database of 'TOAW: A Century of Warfare'. You can edit any name, value and characteristics of any equipment, add it as a 'new' one to replace an 'old' one or use the free slots.

There is something in the work for TOAW3, that probably will come in the next or in an other future patch.

< Message edited by Telumar -- 11/25/2006 5:57:41 PM >


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Post #: 52
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/25/2006 7:01:04 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TOCarroll

Now I am more confused than ever. With the present TAOW3 System, can we change the combat factors (or movement factors) of a unit, or create a unit in the database (say PZ 4 Batallion) with modified combat or movement factors? Put another way, do you need Bio Ed to do the above, or is it for creating or units that are not already in the database?

I own the game, love the game, but it can be confusing, espically the design/modify scenarios part.

You keep referring to 'modifying units.' Units in TOAW are aggregates of the equipment in them -- of course you can modify units. Put in different equipment.

The Bioeditor has nothing to do with this. The Bioeditor lets one modify the characteristics of the individual items of equipment themselves.

So suppose I want to make a battalion of infantry able to move faster. I put in trucks. I've certainly modified it -- but this has nothing to do with the Bioeditor. Where the Bioeditor comes into play is if I want to give the trucks a recon ability or something. Then I open the Bioeditor, pull up the .exe I want to modify, find 'trucks', go to about page 5, and check the 'recon' box for that item of equipment.

I now save this .exe under a new name. From now on, if I use this .exe, trucks will have a recon ability.

_____________________________

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Post #: 53
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/25/2006 8:03:13 PM   
vahauser


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TOCarroll,

It is a question of semantics.  What most people think of when they think of a "unit editor" is an editor that will change the characteristics of units.  However, that way of thinking is problematic is TOAW because a TOAW UNIT is composed of many "sub-units" (for instance, a regimental UNIT composed of many "sub-units" like machine guns and rifles and mortars, etc.).

So what we are REALLY talking about here in TOAW is an EQUIPMENT editor, which currently does NOT exist for TOAW3.  Such an equipment editor (if it existed) would allow players to change the characteristics of the EQUIPMENT in each TOAW UNIT.  With such an equipment editor, you could change the armor and speed and weapons characteristics of your Tiger tanks, for example.

My wallet is anxiously yearning for the day when such an equipment editor will be made available for TOAW3 so I can buy the game (I won't buy the game until that day).

_____________________________


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Post #: 54
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 11/26/2006 7:33:58 AM   
TOCarroll


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OK. Thanks guys. I actually UNDERSTAND what it does and doesn't do. Muchas Gratias to all who contributed to lessening my stupor.

PS    If I know Matrix, It will be released when ready (which I aprove of). Keeps the number of patch versions down below 3 digits.

_____________________________

"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).

(in reply to vahauser)
Post #: 55
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 12/2/2006 11:43:58 AM   
shunwick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

SInce Jean-Luc's efforts at writing an editor have stalled, and I've made significant changes to the way that data is stored in TOAW, we've decided to store the equipment data in a separate file that can be loaded when that scenario starts in a manner similar to the way that scenario specific graphics are loaded..

WIth any luck you'll be able to use BioEd to edit the equipment data only, and store it in a separate file that will be automatically loaded when that scenario is loaded. If you have a currently modded TOAW-COW scenario, you've already done the hardest part.

There are some caveats. We're working on figuring out what those are. For example, the equipment slots are capped at what is currently in TOAW-COW. Scenario graphics are handled differently in TOAW III from TOAW-COW, so much of BioEd's editing aren't useful, etc.

Ralph




Ralph, you know if you save the equipment database in a datafile that can be read by excel then all you would need is a spreadsheet template and use excel for the database editor rather than fool around with BioEd.

As GD pointed out, no scenario uses all the equipment types so if one needs to "add" equipment to the list, you could easily tell users to overwrite unused equipment already in the database rather than try to add new equipment by tacking it on the end.

The only new function (in the game) you would need is a function to ensure that both parties of a PBEM game are using the same equipment database.

Are there any reasons why it's not that simple?

Best wishes,


< Message edited by shunwick -- 12/2/2006 11:51:37 AM >


_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

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Post #: 56
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 12/2/2006 6:20:45 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick
Ralph, you know if you save the equipment database in a datafile that can be read by excel then all you would need is a spreadsheet template and use excel for the database editor rather than fool around with BioEd.

As GD pointed out, no scenario uses all the equipment types so if one needs to "add" equipment to the list, you could easily tell users to overwrite unused equipment already in the database rather than try to add new equipment by tacking it on the end.

The only new function (in the game) you would need is a function to ensure that both parties of a PBEM game are using the same equipment database.

Are there any reasons why it's not that simple?

Best wishes,


Yes, you would be able edit the equipment datafile in a text editor. But it would not be a simple task. Finding the item you wanted to edit would be tedious, and how to edit the flags would be mysterious and difficult. BioEd (or something like it) will be a valuable and necessary aid.

The other complication we're working on is that Norm filled the equipment database with many arcane factors that have often been hard to decipher. Bear with us.

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 57
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 12/3/2006 7:57:57 PM   
shunwick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick
Ralph, you know if you save the equipment database in a datafile that can be read by excel then all you would need is a spreadsheet template and use excel for the database editor rather than fool around with BioEd.

As GD pointed out, no scenario uses all the equipment types so if one needs to "add" equipment to the list, you could easily tell users to overwrite unused equipment already in the database rather than try to add new equipment by tacking it on the end.

The only new function (in the game) you would need is a function to ensure that both parties of a PBEM game are using the same equipment database.

Are there any reasons why it's not that simple?

Best wishes,


Yes, you would be able edit the equipment datafile in a text editor. But it would not be a simple task. Finding the item you wanted to edit would be tedious, and how to edit the flags would be mysterious and difficult. BioEd (or something like it) will be a valuable and necessary aid.

The other complication we're working on is that Norm filled the equipment database with many arcane factors that have often been hard to decipher. Bear with us.


Thanks for that. I must admit that I would prefer a dedicated equipment editor.

Best wishes,



_____________________________

I love the smell of TOAW in the morning...

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 58
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 12/4/2006 1:41:20 AM   
TOCarroll


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From: College Station, Texas
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Thanks for filling in some of the blanks between my ears. An EQUIPMENT editor, allowing one to change the attributes abd values of sub-units (e.g. recon ability of a Panzer Mk. III), would be exactly what the doctor ordered. As a true believer in Matrix Games (and the associated community), I do understand the wisdom of waiting for a product that works, instead of one that is released early and requires countless patches. Good luck with the project.

_____________________________

"Ideological conviction will trump logistics, numbers, and firepower every time"
J. Stalin, 1936-1941...A. Hitler, 1933-1945. W. Churchill (very rarely, and usually in North Africa). F. D. Roosvelt (smart enough to let the generals run the war).

(in reply to shunwick)
Post #: 59
RE: No Equipment Update? What did I pay $40 for? - 12/11/2006 11:30:19 AM   
a white rabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay


quote:

ORIGINAL: shunwick
Ralph, you know if you save the equipment database in a datafile that can be read by excel then all you would need is a spreadsheet template and use excel for the database editor rather than fool around with BioEd.

As GD pointed out, no scenario uses all the equipment types so if one needs to "add" equipment to the list, you could easily tell users to overwrite unused equipment already in the database rather than try to add new equipment by tacking it on the end.

The only new function (in the game) you would need is a function to ensure that both parties of a PBEM game are using the same equipment database.

Are there any reasons why it's not that simple?

Best wishes,



The other complication we're working on is that Norm filled the equipment database with many arcane factors that have often been hard to decipher. Bear with us.


..or simply don't do anything, the "smoke" flag being the best example, altho for arcane i do wonder why "road only" is given to so many vehicles then cancelled by "agile"..

..t3 with a BioEd = the Art of War for all periods, a game that goes beyond "Bench-mark" , "Classic", or 'ultimate"and may well just deserve the advertising formula of The Game..

..anyway, having solved the welding problem, it's back to the "ecologically sound sewerage for social housing systems in a 3rd world environment", " coffee cultivation methods " and "how to grow a decent red wine-grape on the equator" projects...

..Happy Solstice


_____________________________

..toodA, irmAb moAs'lyB 'exper'mentin'..,..beàn'tus all..?,

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 60
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