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OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:46:53 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
What a great day, I opened my door to find a package that weighed roughly 12 pounds sitting on my porch and puzzled what on earth it could be. To my great surprise it was my pre-ordered copy of Decision Games remake of SPIs old War in the Pacific board game.

Of course I spent the past few hours pouring over all the goodies inside the box and figured Id post a first impressions thread here for everyones perusal. As I mentioned above my very first impression was the sheer weight and size of the game.

12 pounds is the heaviest game Ive ever owned, and Im not kidding about the weight. I placed it on my bathroom scale and it weighed in around 13-14 pounds. Given the low tech bathroom scale I figured Id be conservative and state it was at least 12 full pounds.

The game box is at least the size of two of the old SPI boxes laid side by side, probably larger. Definitely not a bookshelf box, this puppies going to have to go on a top shelf somewhere.

Inside are 8,960 unit counters and seven 34x22 beautiful colored maps. But to my great surprise there are also twentyfour 11x17 Tactical maps that display EVERY single island and atoll (it says over 300 on the game box) in the entire Pacific (including places like Corregidor or Hong Kong) in much smaller detail than the 40-60 nautical mile scale of the larger strategic game maps. The tactical maps range from 0.5 10 nautical miles per hex in scale allowing you to play out the longer battles on places like Guadalcanal that lasted for months without the worry that one retreat result will lose the entire island for you in one phase.

Of course there are tons of charts and tables and log sheets. Id estimate if all were stacked on top of each other theyd equal three or more inches in height. The rules books and chart books also would exceed 3 inches themselves. All in all, this game is massive.

The game box itself is very heavy gauge cardboard. At least twice as thick as the thickest game boxes Ive ever seen. I feel confident the box will stand the strain of such heavy component parts much better than game boxes Ive seen fall apart in the past.

I perused the rules books (there are 2) and noted there have been quite a few changes to the original games design. Im no where near competent enough on the changes to make any specific comments, but gone are the old supply rules where you were required to keep track of supply on map with actual counters. Instead there is a new command point rule that abstracts supplies in general by limiting the number of actions units can take by the available command points assigned to their parent HQs.

So basically if you spend the command points to activate units for a single cycle (13 cycles a year with 4 action phases per cycle), it is simply assumed the required supplies needed are already on hand. Of course merchant shipping is still present, but everything is much more abstracted than before. At least thats my impression so far, Ive a lot of reading to do before I can really speak with anything but generalizations right now.

Heres a screenshot of the terrain key for the tactical maps. I had to reduce the image by 50% to get it within the forums size limitations, but I think it still gives a good impression of how things look.




Now if I can just find some dedicated souls in or near central California who want to give up 2 or 3 years of their lives to play this beast.

Jim




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< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 9:50:05 AM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 1:36:54 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
I found this AAR of a full campaign game playtest played out while the game was under development. Thought I'd post the link here for your reading pleasure.

http://www.wargalley.com/witp_aar.php

Jim


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 3:38:22 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Maybe you can post the land combat rules! Who knows, maybe that will instigate a few sound changes.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 3:38:33 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
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From: Near Paris, France
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As for all simulations, I like some things (like the typhoon hitting an area and damaging ships and bases, or the fact that CV aircraft attack in waves, and that Japanese LBA flew with a mix of torps and bombs) and don't others (like the fact that Japanese troops can land in New Guinea, march all the way on the Kokoda Trail and take Port Moresby before the end of December 1941, or the principle or air points simulating 10 AC that you will lose all or nothing).


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 4:09:25 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
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From: Edgewater, MD
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Maybe you can post the land combat rules! Who knows, maybe that will instigate a few sound changes.



Been real busy with my real life job lately...but I was under the impression the designers essentially took Victory Games Pacific War's land combat rules and used them. At least that was the impression I got after reviewing some of the rules that were posted on Decision games site.

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Here's a link to:
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"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 4:53:01 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
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I have a friend who just recieved it as well. Unfortunately, he's in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Tell you what..., you can set it up at my place in Kansas City and then both fly in weekends to play. How about that?

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 5:18:34 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1174
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From: England
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She looks like a beauty. I would love to own it but I can guarantee my wife would divorce me on the spot if I was to try and set it up in the house, let alone buy it.

You will have to set up an AAR to let us know the progress on how long it takes to push out 8,960 counters . That should keep you out of the bar for a week, right there.

Seriously, if you get a game going an AAR would be great. Plenty of pictures though.

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 6:21:40 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill
Seriously, if you get a game going an AAR would be great. Plenty of pictures though.


Id definitely pop for a tripod and digital camera if I ever was to get a game going. You just couldnt do an AAR for this game justice without some high quality digital images with bold arrows and notes drawn all over them declaring your grand intentions.

I have the time (retired) and space for it but I seriously doubt thered be any board wargamers within 200 miles of me with a like amount of time to dedicate to a project of this size. Ill keep an ear open but my comment was more in jest than made with any real hope of finding someone.

10 or 15 years ago my board game group consisted of about 6 regulars and 4-8 irregulars that showed up every weekend for games, but we all drifted apart over the years and I havent seen or heard from any of them in almost 10 years now.

I guess PC gaming just killed the group as it probably did for many hobby groups around the globe.

Jim



< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 8:04:01 PM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 6:38:42 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15576
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

What a great day, I opened my door to find a package that weighed roughly 12 pounds sitting on my porch and puzzled what on earth it could be. To my great surprise it was my pre-ordered copy of Decision Games remake of SPIs old War in the Pacific board game.

Of course I spent the past few hours pouring over all the goodies inside the box and figured Id post a first impressions thread here for everyones perusal. As I mentioned above my very first impression was the sheer weight and size of the game.

12 pounds is the heaviest game Ive ever owned, and Im not kidding about the weight. I placed it on my bathroom scale and it weighed in around 13-14 pounds. Given the low tech bathroom scale I figured Id be conservative and state it was at least 12 full pounds.

The game box is at least the size of two of the old SPI boxes laid side by side, probably larger. Definitely not a bookshelf box, this puppies going to have to go on a top shelf somewhere.

Inside are 8,960 unit counters and seven 34x22 beautiful colored maps. But to my great surprise there are also twentyfour 11x17 Tactical maps that display EVERY single island and atoll (it says over 300 on the game box) in the entire Pacific (including places like Corregidor or Hong Kong) in much smaller detail than the 40-60 nautical mile scale of the larger strategic game maps. The tactical maps range from 0.5 10 nautical miles per hex in scale allowing you to play out the longer battles on places like Guadalcanal that lasted for months without the worry that one retreat result will lose the entire island for you in one phase.

Of course there are tons of charts and tables and log sheets. Id estimate if all were stacked on top of each other theyd equal three or more inches in height. The rules books and chart books also would exceed 3 inches themselves. All in all, this game is massive.

The game box itself is very heavy gauge cardboard. At least twice as thick as the thickest game boxes Ive ever seen. I feel confident the box will stand the strain of such heavy component parts much better than game boxes Ive seen fall apart in the past.

I perused the rules books (there are 2) and noted there have been quite a few changes to the original games design. Im no where near competent enough on the changes to make any specific comments, but gone are the old supply rules where you were required to keep track of supply on map with actual counters. Instead there is a new command point rule that abstracts supplies in general by limiting the number of actions units can take by the available command points assigned to their parent HQs.

So basically if you spend the command points to activate units for a single cycle (13 cycles a year with 4 action phases per cycle), it is simply assumed the required supplies needed are already on hand. Of course merchant shipping is still present, but everything is much more abstracted than before. At least thats my impression so far, Ive a lot of reading to do before I can really speak with anything but generalizations right now.

Heres a screenshot of the terrain key for the tactical maps. I had to reduce the image by 50% to get it within the forums size limitations, but I think it still gives a good impression of how things look.




Now if I can just find some dedicated souls in or near central California who want to give up 2 or 3 years of their lives to play this beast.

Jim





Lucky you. I'm still waiting for my copy, although I did see my credit card has been billed so it should be here anytime. At Origins last July, I saw a copy of it and had the opportunity to check it all out. Can't wait! My son graduates from high school in 1.5 yrs and will go to college. He has the biggest bedroom in the house, much bigger than my current war room. It's big enough for this game. That'll give me plenty of time to cut out and sort all the counters.

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Post #: 9
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:03:47 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
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From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline
uh-em, how much was this one ?

I ask, becasue I saw it online, for cheap 481,--

thats just cheap 610 bucks, hey what the hell....counters made of gold or what


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:07:48 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22580
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: online
Good Lord in Heaven. What is the scale on that map of Hong Kong??

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Post #: 11
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:15:27 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf
uh-em, how much was this one ?


Definitely not cheap at a regular price of $420.00 listed on the games main page here:

http://www.decisiongames.com/html/war_in_the_pacific.html

The pre-order price of $340.00 is still good until 14 Sep. according to this page:

http://www.decisiongames.com/html/whats_new_.html

Personally I dont think the game is too pricey considering they will probably not even sell 500 of these games. Theyve spent years working on it so I dont think their price is unreasonable considering most board games sell for well over $100.00 these days.

Dont get me wrong I know it is very expensive but the unique nature of the title and the sheer size of it merits the unique price I think.

Jim



< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 7:16:36 PM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:37:38 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good Lord in Heaven. What is the scale on that map of Hong Kong??


The tactical maps of the islands range from 0.5 to 10 nautical miles per hex. Hong Kong is 1 mile per hex, Singapore is 3 miles per hex and Guadalcanal is 5 miles per hex for examples.

There seems to be no real rhyme or reason to scales chosen and it probably had more to do with what cartography sources Joe Youst had available during map designs than anything else. For instance heres an incomplete image of the Bataan Corregidor map (couldnt fit the entire map on scanner but got most of it) that comes in at 1.3 miles per hex. Image 50% reduced from original scan:




I hope I get to fight it out on this map some day. I LOVE the idea of detailed combat resolution instead of the huge 1 hex abstractions Matrixs WitP uses.

Jim





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< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 7:39:31 PM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 8:03:39 PM   
Sardonic

 

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Decision Games is the heir to all the old SPI games.
Anyone who has owned the old SPI WitP can easily port to DG's.

It doesnt take two years to play the game. Most of the game is like the war, spent waiting.
Waiting for the CV, the Monsoon to end, the supply to get there, the production runs to fill out your air units.
The Airbase to be constructed.

I would say it takes 160 hours of concentrated playing to reach a verdict.

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Post #: 14
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 8:37:45 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I found this AAR of a full campaign game playtest played out while the game was under development. Thought I'd post the link here for your reading pleasure.

http://www.wargalley.com/witp_aar.php

Jim



Pretty cool AAR. I wanted to print it out so I copied it to a Word document. 292 pages. I guess not.

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 8:48:41 PM   
argaur


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From: Spain
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more screenshots please!

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:16:07 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
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From: Salida, CA.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Beren

more screenshots please!


A tall order given the sheer scope of the game and its components, what would you like to see?

Jim

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:26:26 PM   
argaur


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From: Spain
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japan or new guinea for example

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"... tell the Emperor that I am facing Russians.
If they had been Prussians, I'd have taken the
position long ago."
- Marshal Ney, 1813

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:27:57 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22580
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Lucky you. I'm still waiting for my copy, although I did see my credit card has been billed so it should be here anytime. At Origins last July, I saw a copy of it and had the opportunity to check it all out. Can't wait! My son graduates from high school in 1.5 yrs and will go to college. He has the biggest bedroom in the house, much bigger than my current war room. It's big enough for this game. That'll give me plenty of time to cut out and sort all the counters.


Mike;

Isn't your son going to want to come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas? What if he comes home late one night and gets a couple of Batallions of Imp Guard Div caught between his toes or kicks the Bataan Peninsula into the closet?

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:31:32 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 22580
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

Decision Games is the heir to all the old SPI games.
Anyone who has owned the old SPI WitP can easily port to DG's.

It doesnt take two years to play the game. Most of the game is like the war, spent waiting.
Waiting for the CV, the Monsoon to end, the supply to get there, the production runs to fill out your air units.
The Airbase to be constructed.

I would say it takes 160 hours of concentrated playing to reach a verdict.




160 hrs? You must be kidding.

On the other hand..that is 4 weeks of 8 hr days.

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Post #: 20
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:33:09 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15576
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Lucky you. I'm still waiting for my copy, although I did see my credit card has been billed so it should be here anytime. At Origins last July, I saw a copy of it and had the opportunity to check it all out. Can't wait! My son graduates from high school in 1.5 yrs and will go to college. He has the biggest bedroom in the house, much bigger than my current war room. It's big enough for this game. That'll give me plenty of time to cut out and sort all the counters.


Mike;

Isn't your son going to want to come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas? What if he comes home late one night and gets a couple of Batallions of Imp Guard Div caught between his toes or kicks the Bataan Peninsula into the closet?


He gets the current war room. He knew that when we moved into the house in 1996, when he was 6 yrs old. Originally, the "deal" was so I could play the SPI WitP. I sold that one (for about $200!) to help fund this one.

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Post #: 21
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:55:29 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
Terrain key, 100%.




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< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 9:58:31 PM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:55:46 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
Java area at 100% scan.




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< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 9:59:21 PM >


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Post #: 23
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:55:59 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
China area 50% scan.




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< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 10:00:10 PM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:56:26 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
NewGuinea area 50% scan.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 10:01:08 PM >


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Post #: 25
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:56:40 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3996
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
Northern Japan area 50% scan.

The rest of Japan is along a map fold. These game maps are huge, I displayed Java and the terrain key at 100% to give you an idea of how huge. I don't want to risk tearing them trying to get the scanner images, so these 5 were the best choices at the least risk to my maps. Hope you enjoy them.

Jim




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 10:03:48 PM >


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 10:03:46 PM   
mlees


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From: San Diego
Status: offline
Aahh! The days of yore. Sigh. I live in a small one bedroom apartment. I have to play my stuff on the PC due to space constraints. But there is something to be said about rolling your own dice and knocking over stacks of units. Sigh.

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Post #: 27
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 10:46:03 PM   
Przemcio231


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From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
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maybe some pic of the Counters please

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Post #: 28
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 11:02:18 PM   
Mike Solli


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Those counters are purty.

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Post #: 29
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 11:44:55 PM   
Nikademus


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From: Alien spacecraft
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3 dogs and one stupid cat........

i'll stick with the computer over counters.....talk about a battle you cannot win.....

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