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CVE Nassau and VR squadrons

 
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CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/21/2006 2:44:38 AM   
Cathartes

 

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Anyone know what the deal is with these VR squadrons is? I get 24 or each (F4F and SBD), but I can keep adding planes and pilots to swell their ranks even though they are stationed on the USS Nassau which I just gleefully received. What is the capacity of the Nassau--seems to go up as I add planes? I added about 14 more F4Fs before I wondered if I was screwing something up--and I could have kept going.

Also, how come the pilot experience is only 40?!

Using NikMod and 1.801.

Thanks,
Cathartes

< Message edited by Cathartes -- 8/21/2006 2:45:49 AM >
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/21/2006 3:21:46 AM   
dtravel


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The VR squadrons are Replacement Squadrons.  They will fill up to 54 planes each.  You use them by putting the CVE in a Replenishment TF and they then provide replacement aircraft for other carriers' airgroups.  (At least that's the theory, not sure how well it works.)

WARNING: WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT MOVE A VR SQUADRON OFF A CARRIER!

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 2
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/21/2006 5:38:39 AM   
ckk

 

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btw don't worry about the experience of the pilots on the VR squadron's the pilots when they are on the ships they are replenishments fot will be the experience of USN pilots

(in reply to Cathartes)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/21/2006 8:13:53 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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Cathartes, you don't want to think of using the CVEs with VR squadrons as combat TFs. Think of them as AEs for your CV squadrons. The VR pilots are of much too low experience to try to perform combat operations en masse. Instead you want them to replace lost pilots in your experienced frontline carrier squadrons.

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fair winds,
Brad

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/21/2006 11:58:18 PM   
Cathartes

 

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Thanks for the info and advice on not moving the squadrons off carrier.  Very helpful.

So this begs a question... were CVEs used only in repleneshment role?

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 5
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/22/2006 12:02:19 AM   
Andy Mac

 

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Ummm CK thats not my experience 30 xp pilot on CVR become 30 xp pilot on CV those CVR's are a menace IMO they suck up naval pilots at an alarming rate 108 to refill each one is damn near 2 months worht

(in reply to Cathartes)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/22/2006 12:56:37 AM   
tabpub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Ummm CK thats not my experience 30 xp pilot on CVR become 30 xp pilot on CV those CVR's are a menace IMO they suck up naval pilots at an alarming rate 108 to refill each one is damn near 2 months worht


Andy:

Yes, the initial #'s on some of the repl. groups are low; all the more reason for a "controlled burn off"; get some losses (in a relatively safe area) and replace from repl groups. the new 30-50 pilot hides amongst the experienced CV pilots.
Meantime, your repl group refills plane and pilot, but this time, pilot is from pool and should be a 50-60 pilot as normal.
Then, park your CVE(R)'s until you absolutely need them, not just cause their handy to have around. Better to take your replacements directly from the port in most cases anyhow, as you have access to the named pool then.
And don't allow the squadrons on the CVE(R)'s to refill auto; set on no replacement and do by hand to level that you can live with.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 7
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/22/2006 5:02:42 AM   
ckk

 

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Thanks tab My bad for not explaining what I meant

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/23/2006 1:14:22 AM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Ummm CK thats not my experience 30 xp pilot on CVR become 30 xp pilot on CV those CVR's are a menace IMO they suck up naval pilots at an alarming rate 108 to refill each one is damn near 2 months worht


Andy:

Yes, the initial #'s on some of the repl. groups are low; all the more reason for a "controlled burn off"; get some losses (in a relatively safe area) and replace from repl groups. the new 30-50 pilot hides amongst the experienced CV pilots.
Meantime, your repl group refills plane and pilot, but this time, pilot is from pool and should be a 50-60 pilot as normal.
Then, park your CVE(R)'s until you absolutely need them, not just cause their handy to have around. Better to take your replacements directly from the port in most cases anyhow, as you have access to the named pool then.
And don't allow the squadrons on the CVE(R)'s to refill auto; set on no replacement and do by hand to level that you can live with.


I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 9
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/23/2006 2:00:37 AM   
tabpub


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quote:

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?


No. Just that with the advent of the "named pool" I believe that it is better for USN CVs to replenish from a proper base port rather than the CVE(r) groups. ex. Essex lost some 15 pilots in addition to 20+ planes; replenished from port and it drew from the named pool, so got some very experienced pilots instead of the generic 60 types.

But, if there is no port handy and you just have to have planes/pilots right now, the CVE(r) is a nice force multiplier.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 10
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/23/2006 3:48:53 AM   
dtravel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

quote:

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?


No. Just that with the advent of the "named pool" I believe that it is better for USN CVs to replenish from a proper base port rather than the CVE(r) groups. ex. Essex lost some 15 pilots in addition to 20+ planes; replenished from port and it drew from the named pool, so got some very experienced pilots instead of the generic 60 types.

But, if there is no port handy and you just have to have planes/pilots right now, the CVE(r) is a nice force multiplier.


Also the Named Pilot Pool is being removed in the next patch.

As for the VR squadrons themselves, it appears that the special code for them is not as bullet proof as could be desired. Most of the problems can be avoided by just never removing them from their home carrier (as mentioned earlier ) but there are occasional oddities reported. They are only marginally useful anyways IMHO. The usual limiter on carrier operations isn't losses but sorties. You tend to run out of ordanence for your planes long before you run out of planes and for that you have to go back to port. (I don't know if AEs help here, I don't think anyone has had a game go long enough to find out.)

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 11
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/23/2006 9:40:23 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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" So this begs a question... were CVEs used only in repleneshment role? "


No, there are quite a few CVEs with regular VF, VB and/or VT units aboard. It's just the ones with the VR squadrons that are used as replenishment carriers.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 12
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/23/2006 1:19:04 PM   
tabpub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

quote:

I think I get this . . . if you use the cve(r)s in a historical manner expect ahistorical results, so don't use them, right?


No. Just that with the advent of the "named pool" I believe that it is better for USN CVs to replenish from a proper base port rather than the CVE(r) groups. ex. Essex lost some 15 pilots in addition to 20+ planes; replenished from port and it drew from the named pool, so got some very experienced pilots instead of the generic 60 types.

But, if there is no port handy and you just have to have planes/pilots right now, the CVE(r) is a nice force multiplier.


quote:

Also the Named Pilot Pool is being removed in the next patch.

Boo...I trust that at least they will return to the regular pilot pools. I will have to wait and see; other wise I will lose around 300 naval pilots it would seem.

quote:

As for the VR squadrons themselves, it appears that the special code for them is not as bullet proof as could be desired. Most of the problems can be avoided by just never removing them from their home carrier (as mentioned earlier ) but there are occasional oddities reported. They are only marginally useful anyways IMHO. The usual limiter on carrier operations isn't losses but sorties. You tend to run out of ordanence for your planes long before you run out of planes and for that you have to go back to port. (I don't know if AEs help here, I don't think anyone has had a game go long enough to find out.)

I don't remove them; though watch out, you can still add planes to them over 54 by hitting get plane button, don't know if that messes them up, have one squadron with 55 now...
I don't agree; last invasion I covered, LBA attacks attrited fighter groups by around 30-33% airframes. Without CVE nearby, it was a bothersome trip back to port 6 hexes away or more to refill, and then they are damaged. With them, I was up and still running the next day for combat; and I had to hang about in case enemy carriers/surface showed up in strength. And I hadn't used many sorties, as I was waiting for naval targets in the main. Personally, I like them.

< Message edited by tabpub -- 8/23/2006 1:20:28 PM >


_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 13
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/23/2006 6:30:39 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

" So this begs a question... were CVEs used only in repleneshment role? "


No, there are quite a few CVEs with regular VF, VB and/or VT units aboard. It's just the ones with the VR squadrons that are used as replenishment carriers.

THis is correct and is worth really noting. There are quite a few CVE that are not just replinishment carriers. There of course is the Long Island which is basically a transport for planes.

THere also are CVE with fully operational and well trained squadrons that are to be used as true escorts. They provide cap and close air support for amphibious landings. Other uses include ASW patrol and recon. They are usually too slow to be put in an air combat fleet though.

As a side note, watch the reaction range carefully on those CVE TFs. In a game against the AI I had one TF with 4 CVE that charged off after the KB. I of course lost evry carreir and half my escorts.

_____________________________


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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/24/2006 2:01:29 PM   
goodboyladdie


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I too have just received this CVE and intend to keep the group size at 24 each and use it as a convoy escort until I need it to support sustained operations by my Fleet Carriers. At that stage I intend to use it for it's designed purpose (if I don't have to run away before I need the replacements...)

(in reply to Cathartes)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/24/2006 5:18:16 PM   
dtravel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I too have just received this CVE and intend to keep the group size at 24 each and use it as a convoy escort until I need it to support sustained operations by my Fleet Carriers. At that stage I intend to use it for it's designed purpose (if I don't have to run away before I need the replacements...)


I wouldn't try to use it as a convoy escort. I seem to dimly recall reports that indicated the VR squadrons won't fly normal missions.

But if you do and it works, please, let us know.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to goodboyladdie)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/24/2006 6:12:12 PM   
Hoplosternum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie

I too have just received this CVE and intend to keep the group size at 24 each and use it as a convoy escort until I need it to support sustained operations by my Fleet Carriers. At that stage I intend to use it for it's designed purpose (if I don't have to run away before I need the replacements...)


I wouldn't try to use it as a convoy escort. I seem to dimly recall reports that indicated the VR squadrons won't fly normal missions.

But if you do and it works, please, let us know.


I think they will fly normal missions. Well CAP at least. But of course 24 fighters and 24 Dive Bombers or Torpedo Bombers is 48 Thats about the limit of my maths ) And thats way over the CVEs maximum of c.30 so nothing will fly a mission except a rebase. So you need to remove one or other of the squadrons.

I have not decided on the ethics of doing this, might be considered a gamey move by some? Not sure. They are pretty useless as replenishers and you seem to have far too many and get them too early for the couple of times you might potentially use them in that role. But you are no longer hard up for hardware as '43 comes around and these start arriving usually.

Using the squadrons from land bases would certainly seem to be gamey. They should grow quite big and would seem to give hundreds of 'free' naval attack planes. But not sure about using the CVEs as conventional CVEs for CAP and ASW purposes in Convoy defence?



(in reply to dtravel)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/24/2006 7:00:45 PM   
saj42


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum

I think they will fly normal missions. Well CAP at least. But of course 24 fighters and 24 Dive Bombers or Torpedo Bombers is 48 Thats about the limit of my maths ) And thats way over the CVEs maximum of c.30 so nothing will fly a mission except a rebase. So you need to remove one or other of the squadrons.

I have not decided on the ethics of doing this, might be considered a gamey move by some? Not sure. They are pretty useless as replenishers and you seem to have far too many and get them too early for the couple of times you might potentially use them in that role. But you are no longer hard up for hardware as '43 comes around and these start arriving usually.

Using the squadrons from land bases would certainly seem to be gamey. They should grow quite big and would seem to give hundreds of 'free' naval attack planes. But not sure about using the CVEs as conventional CVEs for CAP and ASW purposes in Convoy defence?



If you let them restock some CVs so the total of both VR units drops to 34'ish then you could use then in a conventional role (remebering to keep repalcements set to OFF )You could then train the 36 Exp pilots through TRAIN, CAP and ASW missions (or on-map training programme from the CVE) to make them quite useful - eventually.


< Message edited by Tallyho! -- 8/24/2006 7:02:24 PM >


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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/24/2006 8:30:08 PM   
Cathartes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel
WARNING: WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT MOVE A VR SQUADRON OFF A CARRIER!


Ok, I've been warned, but what will happen if I do?

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/24/2006 9:22:24 PM   
dtravel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cathartes

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel
WARNING: WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT MOVE A VR SQUADRON OFF A CARRIER!


Ok, I've been warned, but what will happen if I do?


Bad things, very, very bad things.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Cathartes)
Post #: 20
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/25/2006 8:20:10 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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Basically, they grow so large as to never again fit on the ship to which they had been posted.

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fair winds,
Brad

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/25/2006 8:45:51 AM   
Hoplosternum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Basically, they grow so large as to never again fit on the ship to which they had been posted.


But only if you have replacements on.....

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/25/2006 9:17:56 AM   
dtravel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Basically, they grow so large as to never again fit on the ship to which they had been posted.


But only if you have replacements on.....


There are conflicting reports on that.

But IIRC that wasn't the only problem. Things get very strange. Think of it like this. If you build a Rube Goldbergian device to move a bunch of balls from one side of the room to the other, then three more people expand it in sequence after you, so that it now fills the entire room. What happens if one ball falls off partway thru being moved and starts bouncing around?

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Hoplosternum)
Post #: 23
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 8/25/2006 2:45:24 PM   
saj42


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Basically, they grow so large as to never again fit on the ship to which they had been posted.


But only if you have replacements on.....


I've had the VR squadrons grow from 24 to 54 a/c on board with replacements set to OFF.
I hate to think what size they could grow to if land based - they would suck in a lot of airframes and pilots from the pools.

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 6/13/2008 8:46:08 PM   
Charbroiled


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I'm resurrecting this old thread, because I need help with some clarifications:

1. How does using the VR squadrons work? Can I have a CVE loaded with a VR squadron in a replenishment TF in the same hex as a CV TF and use "get plane" from the CV squadron to draw from the VR squadron as I would if the CV was at a base?

2. Can the CVE be overloaded and still supply replacements?

3. Can VR squadron fly normal missions if they are stationed at a base?

(in reply to saj42)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 6/14/2008 8:31:07 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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I'm just getting my first ones into operation as well, so I am also interested in the answer to this question.

I seem to think that I've read somewhere on this forum that you have to have your carrier squadrons set to "allow replacements" as opposed to being able to hit the "get replacement" button, but please do not take this as gospel. I am hoping that someone more experienced with the replenishment CVEs will set up straight.


EDIT: Warning! Check the experience level of the VR pilots - very low. I do not recommend using them as a normal squadron in frontline service, unless you just like seeing your planes go down in flames...

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 6/14/2008 8:34:24 AM >


_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 6/15/2008 12:34:30 AM   
Hemajor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Charbroiled

I'm resurrecting this old thread, because I need help with some clarifications:

3. Can VR squadron fly normal missions if they are stationed at a base?


Yes, they can. I have used my VR sqdns as normale ones without any problems. They need a lot of training before they see real combat. I used them in 24 aircraft sqdns both from bases and CVEs. And I have never had problems with growing sqdns for that matter.

(in reply to Charbroiled)
Post #: 27
RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 6/16/2008 10:15:01 AM   
hvymtl13


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Ok, CVE's. Historical use was to follow just inside ferry range so they could replenish CV TF's. Or to meet them at a suitable port location and restock the airframes and pilots lost. Commonly reffered to as Truck carriers.
So, you got those r Squadrons. There's quite a few uses for them; You can remove them from the CVE's if you like. No worries. What I do is to split the groups, I think they devide into 8 plane groups. Then deploy them at verious bases. Here's the tricky part. Watch how many airframes of the R squadrons type are available first off. Then, if you have the spare airframes, add planes to the group up to a suficient amount that you prefer them to maintain. TURN OFF REPLACEMENTS. Or they will just keep growing to enormous numbers. Wasting your airframes that you need in other groups, or on port replacements for CV's. Very impotant. You must Turn off Replacements. Then, monitor them and replace manually as needed. And replace pilots also as needed.
Second. You can drop the entire squadron at your home port, and set them to training or whatever. Pick up other types of squadrons and load them on the CVE's. They aren't dismantled for cargo as they are on AK's. When you get within range of your proposed destination, transfer them via ferry flight range to the destination. This avoids putting your AK or CVE assets in harms way by pulling into enemy airspace to unload.
Third: Split the groups as we did in example one, but only unload parts of the air groups, keeping one segment on board. Then refill it's rank to capacity of the CVE and operate as air cover for your back area invasion fleets. This method allows you to carry only fighters if you like, and maximize your Cap capacity. You could also use variants on this plan, and keep two seperate Fighter group segments on one CVE. Using one for Cap, and one for LR cap over the AP's. (My personal choice.)
Fourth: Keep everything tidy and do it by the book. Nevr unload them unless you have to, and never ever transfer from the cve. Though not very imaginative.
Hope that helps.

BTW, I believe they tranfer over water anytime you click replinish at sea on the CV TF, and the CVE is within transfer range. I'm fairly sure of this, though not sure on what the max range is.


< Message edited by hvymtl13 -- 6/16/2008 10:20:58 AM >


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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 6/16/2008 2:02:59 PM   
John Lansford

 

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If you put the R squadron CVE's in a Replenishment TF, they will automatically fill up the CV/CVL squadrons when they get within range.  I've done this several times and check the CVE's afterwards; their squadron size shrinks while the CV/CVL's squadrons go back up to full strength.   I've currently got a couple of CVE's with 0 strength fighter squadrons from doing this, in fact.

I've also got some squadrons of 54 planes sitting on airbases when I foolishly transferred them to a base; now they won't fly back to the CVE's, so I transfer them to someplace like Munda or Eniwetok and then dock the CV's; they fill up the carriers just as if they were on the CVE's.

(in reply to hvymtl13)
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RE: CVE Nassau and VR squadrons - 6/16/2008 7:07:27 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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quote:

If you put the R squadron CVE's in a Replenishment TF, they will automatically fill up the CV/CVL squadrons when they get within range.


I normally have my airgroups set to "no replacements", but I am assuming that they will refill only if they have replacements turned on. Is this a correct assumption?

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

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