Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 1:40:03 PM   
skrewball


Posts: 305
Joined: 12/10/2000
From: Belgium
Status: offline
Ok...one of my KB Zero squadrons was down on pilots and planes.

I forget how I exactly transfered planes in. But I ended up with The Main Body with 17 Planes... A/1 with 5 planes and A/2 with 7 planes on the carrier (damaged)

I tried to disband the A/1 into the Main body but it said that I couldn't disband carrier divisions. So I withdrew it and transfered the plans to the Main. NOW, it is in my reinforcement schedule due in 3 months with 36 planes! So as it stands...

Main: Saigon AB with 22 out of 24 planes.
A/1: Due in reinforcement with 36 planes listed.
A/2: On Carrier still

Where did I go wrong? Will A/1 actually come back with 36 planes? Should I only disband NON carrier division squadrons as reinforcements?

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
Post #: 1
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 2:11:00 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline
Yea, does anyone know how this happens?

In my game as Japan I split a daitai of Vals and each 1/3rd Daitai ended up growing back to 17 planes in size... Anyone have any idea about how this happens so it could be avoided in future?

(in reply to skrewball)
Post #: 2
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 2:16:49 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline
TIP: create fragments from carrier CAPABLE zero's (load parent on ship and unload at target. next turn fly 2-3 parent planes out, damaged planes can be disbanded into depleted unit) this method will let you KEEP the parrent fragment to train up again from 30 EXP pilots without waiting 90 days for it to return.....

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 3
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 2:22:50 PM   
skrewball


Posts: 305
Joined: 12/10/2000
From: Belgium
Status: offline
OH!...One amendment...

I forgot I transfered the Main back to the carrier...and A/2 DIDN'T assimilate back into the squadron! What the heck is going on!! :P

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."

(in reply to wild_Willie2)
Post #: 4
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 3:41:44 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

When you divide a group you create 3 new units. The game treats them as seperate units until they recombine. You will not be able to recombine the 2 units you have on the map until the unit you disbanded returns and you have all 3 sub units in the same place.

(in reply to skrewball)
Post #: 5
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 10:12:34 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
The only way you should ever get a computer generated carrier group fragment is if your carrier gets bombed and your planes divert to a land base. I do split carrier groups on the carrier if I have multiple missions to accomplish, but this is very rare.

The easiest way to refill carrier groups with the new patch is to transfer your trained fighter daitai to Osaka and disband it into the pool. Then go to your carrier group (which will need to be in port with 20k supplies) and add planes, then pilots. You will get the trained pilots just disbanded. This is the best way because you can reinforce multiple carrier squadrons from a single daitai or chutai.

If your replacement group can't get to Osaka and you are desparate for replacements, transfer it there, then transfer the carrier group to the base. Disband the replacement group into the carrier group, then transfer the carrier group back to the ship. Be careful not to exceed ship capacity by more than 15% or nothing will fly from that carrier.

Replenishing carrier groups is just about the only reason I ever disband groups. LBA groups are pulled from the front to rear area bases and refilled with planes and untrained pilots when they get down to 10-25% of full strength. Saves you 90 days of do-nothing, ands keeps a cadre of seasoned veterans with all your groups.

Addendum:
quote:

Will A/1 actually come back with 36 planes? Should I only disband NON carrier division squadrons as reinforcements?


Carrier groups/squadrons will not come back if their headquarters was and is Independent. You are screwed if so.


< Message edited by Mynok -- 7/18/2006 10:13:53 PM >

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 6
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/18/2006 11:34:23 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
There is a potential problem with Mynok's suggestion in that you cannot transfer the air unit back to the carrier on the same turn.  So it has to spend one turn off the carrier which could cause it to do some very strange things (change size, transfer to new bases on its own, etc.).  (Also, the whole "Named Pilot Pool" that this tactic is based on will be removed in the next patch.)  The developers have stated several times that you should never move carrier-based air units off their mother ship or try to change the air group's composition because the program cannot handle it.  The fact that you split the air unit in addition is just going to multiple the problem (as you are discovering).  The only safe method of filling out your carrier air units is to put the ship in a base hex and either let the automatic replacement work or manually click on the "add plane" and "add pilot" buttons.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 7
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/19/2006 1:00:33 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

There is a potential problem with Mynok's suggestion in that you cannot transfer the air unit back to the carrier on the same turn.


Actually, you can so long as it is range zero. Do it all the time.

I agree it is not good to leave carrier groups off of the carrier, but it is certainly feasible and advisable to disband trained pilots into them using the method above rather than taking on untrained replacements. That will be the only method should they remove the named pilots feature. It is tried and true. I have used it since .... as long as I can recall, even going back to UV.

< Message edited by Mynok -- 7/19/2006 1:02:08 AM >

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 8
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/19/2006 7:01:34 AM   
skrewball


Posts: 305
Joined: 12/10/2000
From: Belgium
Status: offline
Actually I didn't split the group. Those fragements are from transfering out the squadron with damaged planes. Those damaged planes are the remained left on board. I thought that fragments are supposed to be assimilated back into the main squadron once you bring them together.

And honestly...if you SHOULDN'T transfer carrier based planes...why can you...and why isn't there a warning?

I have always wondered why everyone got a pissed off at the small little bugs in this game...now I am starting to realize!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 9
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/19/2006 9:41:58 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: skrewball

And honestly...if you SHOULDN'T transfer carrier based planes...why can you...and why isn't there a warning?


Because the developers assumed that the players would play exactly the same way they do and just "know" they aren't supposed to do it.

Because Grigsby feels he not only doesn't have to explain how the program works, he thinks its better for the player when he doesn't.

Because the manual was intended to misinform and mislead the players so that they would f*ck up and it would defeat that purpose to give you warning about this.

Because the game was rushed into release before all the coding and testing was even started, let alone finished.

Take your pick.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to skrewball)
Post #: 10
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/19/2006 3:34:49 PM   
DFalcon


Posts: 318
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: skrewball

Actually I didn't split the group. Those fragements are from transfering out the squadron with damaged planes.



My mistake, when you said you had disbanded the group and it was showing on the replacement list I thought you had disbanded a sub group.

I have had this happen as well. The program gets confused with carrier fragments. It takes a little juggling to fix. As Mynok said you can transfer groups back and forth from base to ship as many times as you like if the range is zero. You may need a CVE with in the same base for this as well. If you get all the fragments on the same carrier transfer the main unit to the base and this will trigger the merge. You may also have to transfer all the fragments to the base first then the main unit.

It will take some juggling as a carrier can only have 5 groups on at one time. Transfer other groups off to the CVE. This will require transfering to the base first, then to the CVE. Some times the carrier will not show in the transfer list if it is not in the port, sometimes it has to be in the port. You may have more difficulty if there are planes needing repair or in reserve. This causes the program some extra confusuion as the those planes will sometimes not transferand create more fragments.

Save before you start mucking about in case it all goes to pot. Then start transfering the group and fragments around. Eventually you will hit the combination that will trigger the merge.

Keep in mind that you can not transfer planes to a carrier with more than 50 system damage or any fires. So you may have to wait until the ship is repaired to start your dance. I just went through this routine with one of my carriers. I am not sure how the fragment on the reinforcement list is going to affect this.

Good luck.

(in reply to skrewball)
Post #: 11
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/20/2006 7:36:15 PM   
skrewball


Posts: 305
Joined: 12/10/2000
From: Belgium
Status: offline
Ok...well this is funny...I transfered a squadron on the otherside of the map and the A/II fragment joined the main group. Soooo...interesting!

_____________________________

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."

(in reply to DFalcon)
Post #: 12
RE: Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement - 7/20/2006 11:54:02 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
In my current game, where as the Allies I lost three CVs early on due to Operation Infield, the respawn replacement carriers have just arrived.  Trying to get the orphaned fragments recombined with the new parent air units is ... interesting.  In the Chinese curse sense of the word.  I have twice now gotten messages of one of those fragments recombining when I disbanded single-sub Task Forces somewhere else on the map.

Don and Joe recently fixed a problem with disappearing LCUs by moving a check for out supply units surrendering out of the TF creation routines.  That's right, every time you created a new TF the computer checked to see if any of your ground troops surrendered.  (Talk about "WTF?" )  The code is apparently not grouped together in anything even resembling a logical structure.  To put it mildly.  (As a programmer, the term that comes to mind is "seriously overcooked spagetti code".)

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to skrewball)
Post #: 13
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Ok...trying do some pilot training/replacement Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.166