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optional rules - 4/18/2006 8:30:25 AM   
DavidFaust

 

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Does anyone have a current list of optional rules for WIF?


Thx
Post #: 1
RE: optional rules - 4/18/2006 8:39:09 AM   
mlees


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See post #23 of this thread:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1082338

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 2
RE: optional rules - 6/7/2006 10:31:45 PM   
trees trees

 

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some people get excited about using the Heavy Units from America in Flames and Patton in Flames during 39-45 WiF. I do not. I hope those can be left out until future expansions, just to save a little time.

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 3
RE: optional rules - 8/3/2006 10:54:26 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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Mziln culled out all the optional rule text from RAW and I have been editing it for use in MWIF. I see this as most important for players who are new to WIF and need to understand what the optional rules are all about. Specifically, explaining the optional rules might need to be done when a player is starting his very first game of MWIF. So I am taking some care to improve on the text from RAW.

The text will be used in several places: start of game screen, as help, as part of the tutorials, and in the player's manual. Write once, use 4 times sounds good to me.

So here are the first 6 I have done. As I do the others I will post them too for your inspection. At this point I am still finding my 'voice' - by which I mean the tone/writing style. So let me know what you think.

One concern is that editing the text from RAW might distort the rule. I do not want to do that, but I am not super-worried about it. After all, the program will enforce the rules. The purpose of these writeups is to communicate clearly and accurately; however, they do not have to withstand the onslaughts of rules lawyers.

=============================================================
[1][Artillery][RAW 3 s. 22.4.2]
This optional rule adds artillery units to the game. World in Flames uses the word artillery to encompass 3 types of units: Anti-tank guns (AT), Anti-aircraft guns (AA), and Field artillery (ART). As you might expect, the AT units are effective against tanks; the AA units are used against aircraft that are flying missions in the AA unit's hex (or adjacent hexes), and the ART units have the ability to attack adjacent hexes without actually moving into them. All of these unit types are divisions and have the same stacking capabilities of other divisions.

It is best to place AT units in defensive positions that are likely to be attacked by tanks, though some of them are also effective attacking tanks. In particular, AT guns reduce the ability of enemy armor and mechanized units from gaining odds shifts on the combat results table.

AA guns are primarily used to defend a hex and all the hexes that surround it from attack by enemy aircraft. They are commonly used to defend factories, ships in port, and HQ units, though there are numerous other places where a player will have a need to defend against enemy planes.

ART is especially effective attacking fortified units, since it ignores the general defensive benefits of fortifications. Another major use of ART units is to have them bombard (aka, ground strike) enemy units in preparation for an attack or to forestall an impending attack. In this role they are even more effective than air units because they can be used regardless of the weather, do not have to face enemy fighters and AA units, and do not draw down against the limited number of air missions available to a player during an impulse.

When this optional rule is used, there is a new gearing limit class, Artillery, which includes all three of the above unit types. They form three new force pools and, like other units, are sub-divided on the basis of cost.

For movement purposes, AT and ART units may be towed, motorized, or self-propelled. AA units are either towed or motorized. One benefit of self-propelled artillery is that it can make breakthrough moves when advancing after combat, though they are not considered ARM units for any other purpose. Motorized types may also make breakthrough moves but only if they start and end the advance stacked with the same ARM, HQ-A or MECH unit.

In general, a towed or motorized artillery unit has a combat factor (before modification) of 1 when it is not stacked with a non-artillery unit. Two exceptions to the previous sentence are: AA units firing anti-aircraft fire, and bombardment combat by ART units. In both cases, these units have their full strength available for those combats even when they are alone in a hex. All passive artillery units have a combat factor (before modification) of 1, if they are also out of supply.

Anti-tank units
If an AT unit has a combat factor circled in red (rather than pink), double its combat factors when it is attacking a hex containing an enemy ARM, HQ-A or MECH unit. If an AT unit has a combat factor circled in red or pink, double its combat factors when it is defending against an enemy ARM, HQ-A or MECH unit. Each defending anti-tank unit counts as an ARM corps for choice of land combat tables.

Field artillery units
An ART unit can attack exactly like any other land unit. However, an active, in-supply ART unit has a bombardment ability which it can use instead. To indicate this capability, its combat factors are circled in gray. Bombardment does not count against any Activity limits.

An ART unit bombards an adjacent hex as if its printed combat factor were an aircraft's tactical factor. So, it executes a ground strike or a ground support (offensive or defensive) mission into the hex. ART units gain the benefits of Surprise and Offensive chits, when those combat elements are in effect. Their factors are affected by terrain and weather exactly like an
aircraft's tactical factors. An ART unit cannot use its combat factors to bombard if its own hex is being attacked.

If you use an ART unit's combat factors to bombard, its factors are not reduced to '1' due to it being the only land unit in the hex. ART units that bombard across all-sea, river, canal, fortification or straits hex sides do not halve or third their factors. If they take part in normal combat, they are halved or thirded as usual by such terrain. They can't bombard across alpine
hex sides.

An ART unit that bombards becomes passive after the Advance After Combat subphase ends, regardless of the combat result. An ART that bombards (rather than attacking normally) cannot advance after combat. The German railway gun is a towed ART unit. However, it can only move along rail lines (by normal or rail moves) unless being transported. When moving by rail it may move as if it were an HQ.

Anti-aircraft units
If an AA unit has a combat factor circled in red, double its combat factors when it is attacking a hex containing an enemy ARM, HQ-A or MECH unit. If an AA unit has a combat factor circled in red or pink, double its combat factors when it is defending against an enemy ARM, HQ-A or MECH unit. Each defending AA unit which has a combat factor circled in pink or red, counts as an ARM corps for choice of land combat tables.

Active, in-supply AA units can shoot at enemy aircraft flying a mission to the AA unit's hex or to any adjacent hex (this represents the AA unit being spread over a wider area). Each AA unit can fire up to 4 times a step. It can fire 4 times at one hex, three times at one hex and once at another, etcetera. If it fires twice at one hex, double the unit's AA value. If it fires 3 times at
a hex, triple the unit's AA value. If it fires 4 times at a hex, quadruple the unit's AA value. You can add several AA units' values together.

For example, a 3-factor AA unit can fire twice at one hex and twice at another. A 1-factor unit can fire once at the first hex and three times at the second. In total, they fire 7 AA factors at the first hex and 9 at the second.

AA factors fired by light AA units at a hex containing only bombers that took 4 or more turns to produce are halved. Anti-aircraft fire is resolved after air-to-air combat and before the cleared through bombers attack their target. Anti-aircraft fire is resolved against the cleared through bombers (only), reducing tactical, strategic, or air-to-sea factors as appropriate. When defending against a port attack mission, the AA units' factors are added to those of any ships in the port. Anti-aircraft fire is affected by surprise.

If night and day missions are being flown to the same hex, they are treated as separate hexes for anti-aircraft fire.

Anti-aircraft fire is a subphase within almost all air missions: port attacks, strategic bombardment, carpet bombing, ground strike, air transport, paradrops, ground support, and air resupply. If an AA unit uses anti-aircraft fire, its status changes to passive at the end of the subphase. If firing against aircraft providing ground support, the AA unit only becomes passive after the Advance After Combat subphase ends.
==============================================================
[2][Fortifications][RAW 5 s. 22.4.9]
This optional rule permits new fortifications to be built. Fortifications are stationary and either start the game already on the map or can be built by players like any other units. This optional rule controls whether players can build fortifications during the game. It has no effect on preexisting fortifications. That is, the preexisting fortifications are always included in MWIF. Preexisting fortifications are: the Maginot line in France and the defenses around the ports of Sevastopol and Singapore.

When building new fortifications, they are treated as a separate gearing limit class. Any new fortifications (NF) built during a game, including those that are available to the player as part of setup, are similar to the preexisting fortifications (PF), except that they are weaker. In a nutshell, PF cause the strength of attacking units to be reduced to 1/3, while NF cause them to be reduced to ½.

Fortifications cannot move. In and of themselves, fortifications do not prevent enemy units from entering a hex. Indeed, they are destroyed as soon as an enemy land unit enters their hex (both PF and NF). You can voluntarily remove your fortification units from the map in any production step, though why you would do that is not clear.

Note that fortifications have no intrinsic combat value and cannot attack. Happily though for their owners, their combat benefits are not affected by being out of supply. Also, ground strikes and artillery bombardment have no effect on them. Importantly, they cannot be used to satisfy losses in combat. They just have one feature: they reduce the strength of units that attack across the hexsides they are defending.

Fortifications in a hex are oriented towards individual hexsides. For example, the city of Metz in the Maginot line has 2 hexsides protected by fortifications (NW and NE). Next to Metz, the city of Strasbourg has 4 hexsides protected (NW, NE, east, and SE). When new fortifications are placed on the map as reinforcements, the owner must specify which hexside(s) the fortification is protecting. Each fortification that is built can defend 1 hexside. As is obvious from the preceding examples, multiple fortifications can occupy a single hex.

Placement of fortification reinforcements can be in any hex controlled by their owning major power that isn't in an enemy ZOC. Once placed, the orientation of fortifications can not be changed. Only one fortification can be built per hexside. In particular, temporary fortifications can be built in the same hex as permanent fortifications but only to protect hexsides that are not already fortified. It is possible (i.e., legal) to fortify all 6 hexsides of a hex.

Land Combat Effects of Fortifications
Land units attacking across fortified hexsides into the hex that contains the fortifications have their combat value reduced to 1/3 for preexisting fortifications, and to ½ for new fortifications. This is in addition to any other modifiers. However, a unit that paradrops into a hex containing fortifications is not affected by the fortification, since it is not attacking through any hexside. If every land unit attacking a fortified hex attacks through a fortified hexside, then the defender has the choice of combat table.

There is no effect when you attack out of a fort hex.

All fortifications in a hex are destroyed permanently when control of the hex changes.

Example: a German MECH, MOT and INF are attacking a French INF across both the Maginot line and the Rhine River. Therefore, their total combat factors are divided by 6. If they have a total of 23 combat factors, it is reduced to 3.87. A PARA unit dropping into the hex would add its full strength, 4 factors, for a total attack strength of 7.87.
=============================================================
[3][Supply Units][RAW 6 s. 22.4.10]
This optional rule adds supply units to the game. Supply units enable a HQ to serve as a primary supply source for 1 game turn. In order for a supply unit to perform this function, it must be active and in the same hex as an HQ with which it cooperates. If it meets those conditions, then at any time during a game turn (even during an opponent's phase), it can be used to transform the HQ with which it is stacked into a primary supply source. Doing this consumes the supply unit and it is removed from the map. If you are using the optional rule Oil, then as part of the attributes of serving as a primary supply source, the HQ may reorganize oil dependent units (even itself) as if it were 1 oil resource.

Supply units move like a motorized unit but do not change control of hexes they enter. They have no ZOC. They stack as if they were a division (this is true even when the optional rule Divisions is not being used). They can use rail movement. For purposes of naval transport, a TRS can carry 1 supply unit. For purposes of air transport, a supply unit requires 2 ATRs for the air transport mission. An air transport mission of a supply unit can be completed (i.e., the supply unit lands at its destination) if at least 1 ATR survives.

Supply units have no combat value and can not attack. Since supply units can not take part in an attack, they can not advance after combat. They are never affected by combat results (e.g., they do retreat and cannot be used to take casualties).

Land units can enter a hex containing only an enemy supply unit without having to overrun it. The player can then either destroy the supply unit or replace it with one of his own (chosen randomly, since the movement points for supply units may differ).

Supply units are always in supply. Note well, they do not have to trace supply. Passive supply units can be reorganized like any other unit, though if you are using the optional rule Oil, they require oil to be reorganized, just the same as any other unit.

Supply units are a new gearing limit class and cost 3 build points. They may only be built if all the resources used in producing those 3 build points were oil.
=============================================================
[4][Engineers][RAW 7 s. 22.4.1]
This optional rule adds engineer units to the game. Every engineer unit (ENG) is a division sized unit and has capabilities that affect: air unit stacking, factory, oil resource, and major port repairs, and combat. Some engineer units are motorized and receive the benefits of being motorized. Others are marked as MAR units and have the same special abilities as MAR units.

Stacking
Each ENG (even when passive) increases the aircraft-stacking limit of a hex by 1 (e.g. you could stack 2 aircraft in a swamp occupied by 2 ENG units). However, engineers have no effect on the stacking limits for flying boats.

Repairs
When this optional rule is being used, occupied or conquered red factories can not be used until they are repaired. Also, major ports that are occupied or conquered function as minor ports until they are repaired. Major ports are repaired when, during a production phase, an ENG occupies the port hex. The ENG can be either active or passive at the time. Damaged red factories and any destroyed oil resource can be repaired in the same manner, during a production phase, but build points must also be spent to effect the repair.

Combat
When attacking or overrunning across a river, canal or fort hex-side, ENGs are not reduced to a half or a third. They also provide this benefit to land units with which they are stacked, but only as many as the ENG unit's combat value. For example, an ENG with a combat strength of 1 can help only 1 additional unit. ENG attacking across both a river and a fort hexside, ignore only the fort hexside. The defender still has all other non-fort combat benefits when behind a fort hexside.

Engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll when attacking a city that contains 2 or 3 factories. Engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending in a city containing 2 or 3 factories. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a 2 factory city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).
=============================================================
[5][Flying Boats][RAW 7 s. 2.3.1]
This optional rule adds flying boats to the game. Flying boats have pontoons that enable them to land and take off from water. For that reason, they have the benefit, and disadvantage, of being based in coastal hexes. The coast may be alongside an ocean, sea, or lake. Air units that are flying boats can be identified by the blue circle around their air-to-sea combat factor.

Flying boats can only stack in a coastal hex (even if the coast is only on a lake). You can only stack 1 flying boat in a hex, but this is in addition to any other aircraft in the hex. For example, you could stack a flying boat plus 3 other aircraft in a major port; you can even stack a flying boat in a coastal mountain hex.

Flying boats can fly missions into, or rail move through, non-coastal hexes. Engineers have no effect on stacking limits for flying boats. ATR flying boats (e.g. the BV-222) can only air transport units to or from, or air resupply units in, coastal hexes.

Flying boats have one unique vulnerability. If they are based in a coastal lake hex and the lake freezes due to a change in the weather, the flying boat unit is destroyed!
==============================================================
[6][Territorials][RAW 10 s. 22.4.5]
When this optional rule is used, territorial units are added to the game. Territorials are special infantry units. For example, they count against infantry gearing limits. However, they form a new force pool, separate from other infantry unit force pools. You will find that territorial units are typically weaker and slower than regular infantry, but have movement benefits when operating in their home country. One advantage of territorial units is that they are cheaper to build. They also arrive in their home countries which can be a good thing if that country is in the front line, or a bad thing if it is far from any combat zone.

For movement purposes, territorial units treat mountain, forest and jungle terrain in their home country as clear. They pay normal movement costs outside their home country. In addition to other restrictions on minor country units leaving their home country, territorials may only leave their home country if an active Major Power controls them.

In land combat, subtract 1 from the die roll if only Territorials land units are attacking. Similarly, add 1 to the die roll in any land combat if the only land units defending are territorials. This in addition to any modifier for passive units.

Territorials may be built even before you are allowed to reinforce their Minor Country (e.g. USA entry option 41: US reinforces the Philippines). However, Italy can only build the Italian AOI territorial if it controls Ethiopia, Italian Somaliland, or Eritrea.

The Italian AOI territorial can arrive as a reinforcement in any of these 3 countries and it can cooperate with all other Italian territorials. Note that territorials arrive as reinforcements in their home country, not their controlling Minor Country. For example, the NEI territorial arrives in the Netherlands East Indies, not the Netherlands.

The Major Power that controls the territorial’s home country or territory when they arrive as reinforcements controls the territorials. This occurs even if a different Major Power built them. As reinforcements, territorials are placed in any city or port in that territory.

All on map territorials are returned to the force pools when their home country or territory is conquered.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to trees trees)
Post #: 4
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 1:09:15 AM   
lomyrin


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Engineers:

There is another option that will let Engineers be used as combat Engineeers only. With this option and the Engineer option both in use, captured Major ports and Red Factories are automatically usable by the controlling Power the turn after they have been taken, they do not need to be repaired by an Engineer.

Lars


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 5
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 2:43:37 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
Engineers:

There is another option that will let Engineers be used as combat Engineeers only. With this option and the Engineer option both in use, captured Major ports and Red Factories are automatically usable by the controlling Power the turn after they have been taken, they do not need to be repaired by an Engineer.

Lars


Ok.

WIF FE has one optional rule for engineers but within that rule it says they can be played as combat and/or construction engineers. It looks like I need to treat this as 2 separate optional rules for all practical purposes. If either is selected, then engineers are added to the game and they have the air unit stacking benefits.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to lomyrin)
Post #: 6
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 6:16:46 AM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Engineers:

There is another option that will let Engineers be used as combat Engineeers only. With this option and the Engineer option both in use, captured Major ports and Red Factories are automatically usable by the controlling Power the turn after they have been taken, they do not need to be repaired by an Engineer.

Lars



13.6.2 Factories

A blue factory is usable if you control it in the production step and it is either in your (current and/or 1939) major power’s home country or in an aligned (not conquered) minor country.



Engineer divisions (MiF option 7)

Some engineer divisions (ENGs) are motorised and receive the benefits of being motorised. Some other engineers have the same special abilities as MAR units. You can play engineers as combat and/or construction engineers.

Construction Engineers

You can only use an occupied or conquered red factory, after the first production step that you had an ENG unit (even face-down) in that factory hex.

Any major port you occupy or conquer is only a minor port until repaired. It is repaired after the first production step that you had an ENG unit (even face-down) in that port hex.



22.2 Factory destruction & construction (option 30)

If a printed factory is destroyed, you don’t have to rebuild it from scratch; you can repair it. This is cheaper and faster (4 build points and 2 turns). You can only repair printed factories, not factories you constructed.

MiF option 7: If you are playing with ENG units (see 22.4.1), you can’t repair a destroyed factory unless an ENG unit is stacked in the factory hex on the turn you pay to repair it.




Note: Only destroyed factories need to be repaired. Captured factories need not be destroyed.

< Message edited by Mziln -- 8/4/2006 6:34:40 AM >

(in reply to lomyrin)
Post #: 7
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 6:54:13 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Engineers:

There is another option that will let Engineers be used as combat Engineeers only. With this option and the Engineer option both in use, captured Major ports and Red Factories are automatically usable by the controlling Power the turn after they have been taken, they do not need to be repaired by an Engineer.

Lars



13.6.2 Factories

A blue factory is usable if you control it in the production step and it is either in your (current and/or 1939) major power’s home country or in an aligned (not conquered) minor country.



Engineer divisions (MiF option 7)

Some engineer divisions (ENGs) are motorised and receive the benefits of being motorised. Some other engineers have the same special abilities as MAR units. You can play engineers as combat and/or construction engineers.

Construction Engineers

You can only use an occupied or conquered red factory, after the first production step that you had an ENG unit (even face-down) in that factory hex.

Any major port you occupy or conquer is only a minor port until repaired. It is repaired after the first production step that you had an ENG unit (even face-down) in that port hex.



22.2 Factory destruction & construction (option 30)

If a printed factory is destroyed, you don’t have to rebuild it from scratch; you can repair it. This is cheaper and faster (4 build points and 2 turns). You can only repair printed factories, not factories you constructed.

MiF option 7: If you are playing with ENG units (see 22.4.1), you can’t repair a destroyed factory unless an ENG unit is stacked in the factory hex on the turn you pay to repair it.

Note: Only destroyed factories need to be repaired. Captured factories need not be destroyed.


Your additional information helps.

Though the rules don't explicitly say that captured red factories have to be repaired, by requiring an engineer to occupy the hex, they are sort of implying that. However, there apparently is no cost for making them operational (I had that bit wrong).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 8
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 5:28:27 PM   
Mziln


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Factory availability is a matter of control and destruction (if your using option 30). To controll a factory...
 
13.6.2 Factories
 
Each hex can contain up to 3 factories. Some of those factories will be red factories but most will be blue factories. The total red and blue factories in each country are recorded on the factory and resources table.
 
A red factory is usable if you control it in the production step.
 
A blue factory is usable if you control it in the production step and it is either in your (current and/or 1939) major power’s home country or in an aligned (not conquered) minor country.
 
If you are using Engineer divisions (MiF option 7)
 
Construction Engineers

You can only use an occupied or conquered red factory, after the first production step that you had an ENG unit (even face-down) in that factory hex.

 
 
 
You only destroy a factory by strategic bombardment or occupation. Destruction by occupation is at the option of the occupier. You could consider option 30 as two actual options, destruction and construction.
 
 
22.2 Factory destruction & construction (option 30)
 
Destruction
 
Blue and red factories can be destroyed by strategic bombardment (see 11.7). If there is a choice, destroy blue factories first.
 
You may also destroy a blue factory if an enemy land unit (other than a PART) occupies a hex in the country. To destroy a blue factory, one of your land units must be in supply in that hex during the victory check step (see 13.8). Each land unit can only destroy 1 factory stack a turn. If the hex has 2 blue factories, you may only destroy both in the same turn if you have 2 land units there.
 

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 9
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 7:37:23 PM   
Froonp


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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

Engineers:

There is another option that will let Engineers be used as combat Engineeers only. With this option and the Engineer option both in use, captured Major ports and Red Factories are automatically usable by the controlling Power the turn after they have been taken, they do not need to be repaired by an Engineer.

Lars

Rule 1.1 also say that when you choose an option, you are not required to take the whole option.
But for programming the game, this can become a nightmare.
I suggest that, unless specified in the option (and it is the case for the Engineers), the options are taken as a whole.

(in reply to lomyrin)
Post #: 10
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 7:39:00 PM   
Froonp


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quote:

AA guns are primarily used to defend a hex and all the hexes that surround it from attack by enemy aircraft. They are commonly used to defend factories, ships in port, and HQ units, though there are numerous other places where a player will have a need to defend against enemy planes.

You should also add that AA guns are also often similar to AT guns in defensive positions.

quote:

ART (...) In this role they are even more effective than air units because they can be used regardless of the weather,

This is totaly wrong. ART are subject to weather effects as planes.

quote:

Engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll when attacking a city that contains 2 or 3 factories. Engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending in a city containing 2 or 3 factories. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a 2 factory city).

These are the mods for 1d10 CRT.
For 2d10 CRT the mods are different. The 2d10 CRT may be an option, but it is often chosen, and giving the CRT mods for 1d10 table is not a good idea IMO, and people will often have it wrong when they prepare an attack.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 11
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 8:05:58 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

AA guns are primarily used to defend a hex and all the hexes that surround it from attack by enemy aircraft. They are commonly used to defend factories, ships in port, and HQ units, though there are numerous other places where a player will have a need to defend against enemy planes.

You should also add that AA guns are also often similar to AT guns in defensive positions.

quote:

ART (...) In this role they are even more effective than air units because they can be used regardless of the weather,

This is totaly wrong. ART are subject to weather effects as planes.

quote:

Engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll when attacking a city that contains 2 or 3 factories. Engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending in a city containing 2 or 3 factories. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a 2 factory city).

These are the mods for 1d10 CRT.
For 2d10 CRT the mods are different. The 2d10 CRT may be an option, but it is often chosen, and giving the CRT mods for 1d10 table is not a good idea IMO, and people will often have it wrong when they prepare an attack.

Ok.

What I was trying to say about Artillery and weather is that they don't have to fly. Air units may be grounded because of the weather conditions in the weather zone where they are based. In retrospect, I guess this is too subtle a point to be worth making though.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 12
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 8:15:34 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

AA guns are primarily used to defend a hex and all the hexes that surround it from attack by enemy aircraft. They are commonly used to defend factories, ships in port, and HQ units, though there are numerous other places where a player will have a need to defend against enemy planes.

You should also add that AA guns are also often similar to AT guns in defensive positions.

quote:

ART (...) In this role they are even more effective than air units because they can be used regardless of the weather,

This is totaly wrong. ART are subject to weather effects as planes.

quote:

Engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll when attacking a city that contains 2 or 3 factories. Engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending in a city containing 2 or 3 factories. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a 2 factory city).

These are the mods for 1d10 CRT.
For 2d10 CRT the mods are different. The 2d10 CRT may be an option, but it is often chosen, and giving the CRT mods for 1d10 table is not a good idea IMO, and people will often have it wrong when they prepare an attack.

Ok.

What I was trying to say about Artillery and weather is that they don't have to fly. Air units may be grounded because of the weather conditions in the weather zone where they are based. In retrospect, I guess this is too subtle a point to be worth making though.


As a newbie a few qs come to mind when reading this:

* do AA use less oil than fighters?
* Can AA keep firing as many times as their hex is attacked? Can planes?

_____________________________


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 13
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 8:37:38 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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For oil use, I would have to look it up, but the difference shouldn't be that large and less important than combat considerations. When you have little or no oil, you don't do much of anything that requires oil. If you have oil, then you attack and defend vigorously without regard to oil. Keeping your units alive, killing the enemy, and controlling territory are more important.

AA units, like air units, are "one and done" during a turn. They start each game turn active (except under unusual circumstances) and can perform their active combat function once (e.g., fly a mission for an air unit and fire Ackack for an AA unit), after which they become passive. Passive AA units, like all land units, still have a defensive land combat value. All units can be transformed back from passive to active with the expenditure of reorganization points, which can come from any of 3 different sources: HQs, naval transports, and air transports. Offensive chits can also be used for reorganization.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 14
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 9:43:15 PM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
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I think Steve's summary is pretty close to what's needed for newbies.

I loved the explanation of flying boats and their "unique vulnerability."

_____________________________


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Post #: 15
RE: optional rules - 8/4/2006 10:04:24 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

I think Steve's summary is pretty close to what's needed for newbies.

Yes, I think the same.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 16
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 1:12:48 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
Here are some more of the writeups on the optional rules. I have made corrections to the one for engineers.

Please review for clarity and accuracy.

=============================================================
[4a][Engineers - Construction][RAW 7 s. 22.4.1]
This optional rule adds engineer units to the game. Every engineer unit (ENG) is a division sized unit and has capabilities that affect: air unit stacking, factory, oil resource, and major port repairs, and combat. Some engineer units are motorized and receive the benefits of being motorized. Others are marked as MAR units and have the same special abilities as MAR units.

There are two optional rules that add engineers to the counter mix. You can use them separately or in combination. This one is for the construction capabilities of engineers. The second optional rule is for their combat capabilities. If either optional rule is used, then the stacking provisions below are in effective.

Stacking
Each ENG (even when passive) increases the aircraft-stacking limit of a hex by 1 (e.g. you could stack 2 aircraft in a swamp occupied by 2 ENG units). However, engineers have no effect on the stacking limits for flying boats.

Repairs
When this optional rule is being used, occupied or conquered red factories can not be used until they are repaired. Also, major ports that are occupied or conquered function as minor ports until they are repaired. Major ports are repaired when, during a production phase, an ENG occupies the port hex. The ENG can be either active or passive at the time. Damaged red factories and any destroyed oil resource can be repaired in the same manner.

Engineers are also needed to repair destroyed, preexisting, blue factories. Blue factories come in two flavors: (1) preexisting at the start of the war, and (2) newly constructed. The latter can not be repaired if they are destroyed. The former, on the other hand, can be repaired faster and at a lower cost than building a new factory in the same hex. However, when this optional rule is in effect, repairing destroyed blue factories also requires the hex to be occupied by an engineer during the production phase you pay for the repair.
=============================================================
[4b][Engineers - Combat][RAW 7 s. 22.4.1]
This optional rule adds engineer units to the game. Every engineer unit (ENG) is a division sized unit and has capabilities that affect: air unit stacking, factory, oil resource, and major port repairs, and combat. Some engineer units are motorized and receive the benefits of being motorized. Others are marked as MAR units and have the same special abilities as MAR units.

There are two optional rules that add engineers to the counter mix. You can use them separately or in combination. This one is for the construction capabilities of engineers. The second optional rule is for their combat capabilities. If either optional rule is used, then the stacking provisions below are in effective.

Stacking
Each ENG (even when passive) increases the aircraft-stacking limit of a hex by 1 (e.g. you could stack 2 aircraft in a swamp occupied by 2 ENG units). However, engineers have no effect on the stacking limits for flying boats.

Combat
When attacking or overrunning across a river, canal or fort hex-side, ENGs are not reduced to a half or a third. They also provide this benefit to land units with which they are stacked, but only as many as the ENG unit's combat value. For example, an ENG with a combat strength of 1 can help only 1 additional unit. ENG attacking across both a river and a fort hexside, ignore only the fort hexside. The defender still has all other non-fort combat benefits when behind a fort hexside.

When using the 1d10 land combat results table (CRT), engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll when attacking a city that contains 2 or 3 factories. Engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending in a city containing 2 or 3 factories. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a 2 factory city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).

When using the 2d10 land CRT the preceding paragraph is replaced by the following. Engineers provide 1 odds shift for each combat factor when attacking or defending any city hex. An engineer with a combat strength of 2 provides two combat shifts on the 2d10 land CRT. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).
=============================================================
[7][Limited Overseas Supply][RAW 11 s. 2.4.2]
When this optional rule is in effect, a supply path can only be traced overseas if each sea zone it passes through contains a friendly convoy, naval transport, or amphibious unit. The effect of this is that non-combat naval units have to be maintained at sea to provide supply to overseas units.
=============================================================
[8][Limited Supply Across Straits][RAW 12 s. 2.4.2, 11.10]
When this optional rule is in effect, the presence of enemy naval units in a sea area may prevent the use of the straits for tracing supply. Specifically, if the presence of enemy units prevents tracing an overseas supply path into the sea area that the straits crosses, then: (1) resources can not be transported across the straits, (2) units can not trace supply across the straits, and (3) units can not rail move across the straits. The effect of this rule is to make control of the associated sea area crucial when you want to use a straits.
=============================================================
[9][HQ Support][RAW 13 s. 11.16.2]
When this optional rule is used, active HQ’s may be used to attempt to modify/improve the combat odds in a land combat. This can be done both when attacking and defending. In either case though, there is a penalty to be paid, which is that a HQ that successfully provides support becomes passive after the attack has been executed. Note that it only becomes passive if it succeeds in providing support. Should it fail to provide support, it does not become passive because of the attempt. Still, a bad combat result, as usual, may cause it to become passive.

For a defending HQ, there are many restrictions on whether it may provide support: (1) it must be active, (2) it must be in supply, (3) its controlling major power may not have been surprised during the impulse, (4) only one HQ may be assigned to support each land combat, (5) the HQ must be in, or adjacent to, the attacked hex, (6) if the HQ is in an adjacent hex, then the hexside between the HQ and the attacked hex must be passable, (7) if the HQ is in an adjacent hex, then its own hex may not be under attack, and (8) the HQ must cooperate with the unit(s) it is supporting.

For an attacking HQ, there are only two restrictions: (1) only one HQ may be assigned to support each land combat, and (2) the HQ must be one of the units attacking the hex. Of course the latter restriction means the HQ must meet all the normal requirements for performing a land attack.

After all land attacks are declared, the defending side announces all their HQ support for target hexes. Then the attacking side announces all their HQ support. In the sequence of play, HQ support is resolved after ground support missions have been flown and any air-to-air combat fought. For clarity, the land combat sequence is:

1. Declare all attacks, (the defender then announces whether any notional units are to be ignored);
2. Add defensive shore bombardment;
3. Add offensive shore bombardment;
4. Announce defensive HQ support;
5. Announce offensive HQ support;
6. Fly and resolve ground support missions;
7. Resolve HQ support;
8. The combats are then resolved one by one (attacker choosing the order of combat resolution).

An HQ only tries to provide support. It may succeed or it may fail. To determine which, a die is rolled for each HQ attempting to provide support (i.e., a separate die is rolled for each HQ). If the roll is less than or equal to the HQ's reorganization value, success! The combat odds shift 1 level in the favor of the HQ. For example, a 2-1 combat becomes a 3-2 if the HQ support succeeds for the defender, and becomes a 3-1 if it succeeds for the attacker. Obviously, if both sides add HQ support successfully, the odds shifts cancel each other out.

An HQ that successfully provides HQ support becomes passive. Note that this does not happen if the HQ failed to provide support (because the die roll was greater than its reorganization value). The transformation from active to passive occurs after the subphase Advancing After Combat, and it happens regardless of the combat result.
=============================================================
[10][Emergency HQ Supply][RAW 13 s. 2.4.3]
This rule enables a HQ unit to provide emergency supply. The purpose of providing emergency supply is to enable units to be in supply who otherwise would be out of supply. Curiously, to make use of this optional rule, a unit has to be both out of supply and simultaneously able to reach of a friendly HQ.

To explain this rule a quick review of supply lines is appropriate. Primary supply typically comes from a city in a unit’s home country. Since units fighting far from home can not reach a primary supply source with the short, basic path permitted by the rules (4 hexes), they must instead reach a secondary supply source using that 4 hex path length. And HQ units are the most common secondary supply source for units in the front lines.

If a unit can reach a friendly HQ and that HQ can then trace a supply path to a primary supply source, then the unit is in supply and has no need for emergency supply. So, for this rule to be of any use, we are only talking about the case when the supply path from the HQ to the primary supply source has been cut. This can occur due to a rail line being cut in the rear areas or when a link through a sea area has been lost. When this situation occurs, then an out-of-supply, active HQ can be used to provide emergency supply to nearby units.

Specifically, non-HQ units that are out of supply may use Emergency HQ supply to operate as if they were in supply for one impulse. To do so, the following conditions must be met: (1) the unit can trace a basic supply path to an active HQ with which they cooperate, (2) the HQ doesn’t provide emergency supply to more units than the HQ's reorganization value, and (3) the HQ was not surprised during the impulse.

The player must announce that the HQ is providing emergency supply before any unit can gain the benefit. After the land combat phase, a HQ that provides emergency supply becomes passive.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 17
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 1:44:00 AM   
lomyrin


Posts: 3741
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From: San Diego
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The HQ support description does not mention the 2d10 combat tables

HQ support when using the 2d10 tables is automatic and changes the die roll modifier by half the HQ reorganization value.
The change is negative when defending and positive when attacking.

Lars

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 18
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 2:36:41 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin

The HQ support description does not mention the 2d10 combat tables

HQ support when using the 2d10 tables is automatic and changes the die roll modifier by half the HQ reorganization value.
The change is negative when defending and positive when attacking.

Lars

Thanks, I'll add that.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to lomyrin)
Post #: 19
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 3:12:26 AM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here are some more of the writeups on the optional rules. I have made corrections to the one for engineers.

Please review for clarity and accuracy.

=============================================================
[4a][Engineers - Construction][RAW 7 s. 22.4.1]
This optional rule adds engineer units to the game. Every engineer unit (ENG) is a division sized unit and has capabilities that affect: air unit stacking, factory, oil resource, and major port repairs, and combat. Some engineer units are motorized and receive the benefits of being motorized. Others are marked as MAR units and have the same special abilities as MAR units.

There are two optional rules that add engineers to the counter mix. You can use them separately or in combination. This one is for the construction capabilities of engineers. The second optional rule is for their combat capabilities. If either optional rule is used, then the stacking provisions below are in effective.

Stacking
Each ENG (even when passive) increases the aircraft-stacking limit of a hex by 1 (e.g. you could stack 2 aircraft in a swamp occupied by 2 ENG units). However, engineers have no effect on the stacking limits for flying boats.

Repairs
When this optional rule is being used, occupied or conquered red factories can not be used until they are repaired. Also, major ports that are occupied or conquered function as minor ports until they are repaired. Major ports are repaired when, during a production phase, an ENG occupies the port hex. The ENG can be either active or passive at the time. Damaged red factories and any destroyed oil resource can be repaired in the same manner.

Engineers are also needed to repair destroyed, preexisting, blue factories. Blue factories come in two flavors: (1) preexisting at the start of the war, and (2) newly constructed. The latter can not be repaired if they are destroyed. The former, on the other hand, can be repaired faster and at a lower cost than building a new factory in the same hex. However, when this optional rule is in effect, repairing destroyed blue factories also requires the hex to be occupied by an engineer during the production phase you pay for the repair.
=============================================================
[4b][Engineers - Combat][RAW 7 s. 22.4.1]
This optional rule adds engineer units to the game. Every engineer unit (ENG) is a division sized unit and has capabilities that affect: air unit stacking, factory, oil resource, and major port repairs, and combat. Some engineer units are motorized and receive the benefits of being motorized. Others are marked as MAR units and have the same special abilities as MAR units.

There are two optional rules that add engineers to the counter mix. You can use them separately or in combination. This one is for the construction capabilities of engineers. The second optional rule is for their combat capabilities. If either optional rule is used, then the stacking provisions below are in effective.

Stacking
Each ENG (even when passive) increases the aircraft-stacking limit of a hex by 1 (e.g. you could stack 2 aircraft in a swamp occupied by 2 ENG units). However, engineers have no effect on the stacking limits for flying boats.

Combat
When attacking or overrunning across a river, canal or fort hex-side, ENGs are not reduced to a half or a third. They also provide this benefit to land units with which they are stacked, but only as many as the ENG unit's combat value. For example, an ENG with a combat strength of 1 can help only 1 additional unit. ENG attacking across both a river and a fort hexside, ignore only the fort hexside. The defender still has all other non-fort combat benefits when behind a fort hexside.

When using the 1d10 land combat results table (CRT), engineers provide +1 to the land combat die roll when attacking a city that contains 2 or 3 factories. Engineers subtract 1 from the die roll when defending in a city containing 2 or 3 factories. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a 2 factory city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).

When using the 2d10 land CRT the preceding paragraph is replaced by the following. Engineers provide 1 odds shift for each combat factor when attacking or defending any city hex. An engineer with a combat strength of 2 provides two combat shifts on the 2d10 land CRT. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).
=============================================================
[7][Limited Overseas Supply][RAW 11 s. 2.4.2]
When this optional rule is in effect, a supply path can only be traced overseas if each sea zone it passes through contains a friendly convoy, naval transport, or amphibious unit. The effect of this is that non-combat naval units have to be maintained at sea to provide supply to overseas units.
=============================================================
[8][Limited Supply Across Straits][RAW 12 s. 2.4.2, 11.10]
When this optional rule is in effect, the presence of enemy naval units in a sea area may prevent the use of the straits for tracing supply. Specifically, if the presence of enemy units prevents tracing an overseas supply path into the sea area that the straits crosses, then: (1) resources can not be transported across the straits, (2) units can not trace supply across the straits, and (3) units can not rail move across the straits. The effect of this rule is to make control of the associated sea area crucial when you want to use a straits.
=============================================================
[9][HQ Support][RAW 13 s. 11.16.2]
When this optional rule is used, active HQ’s may be used to attempt to modify/improve the combat odds in a land combat. This can be done both when attacking and defending. In either case though, there is a penalty to be paid, which is that a HQ that successfully provides support becomes passive after the attack has been executed. Note that it only becomes passive if it succeeds in providing support. Should it fail to provide support, it does not become passive because of the attempt. Still, a bad combat result, as usual, may cause it to become passive.

For a defending HQ, there are many restrictions on whether it may provide support: (1) it must be active, (2) it must be in supply, (3) its controlling major power may not have been surprised during the impulse, (4) only one HQ may be assigned to support each land combat, (5) the HQ must be in, or adjacent to, the attacked hex, (6) if the HQ is in an adjacent hex, then the hexside between the HQ and the attacked hex must be passable, (7) if the HQ is in an adjacent hex, then its own hex may not be under attack, and (8) the HQ must cooperate with the unit(s) it is supporting.

For an attacking HQ, there are only two restrictions: (1) only one HQ may be assigned to support each land combat, and (2) the HQ must be one of the units attacking the hex. Of course the latter restriction means the HQ must meet all the normal requirements for performing a land attack.

After all land attacks are declared, the defending side announces all their HQ support for target hexes. Then the attacking side announces all their HQ support. In the sequence of play, HQ support is resolved after ground support missions have been flown and any air-to-air combat fought. For clarity, the land combat sequence is:

1. Declare all attacks, (the defender then announces whether any notional units are to be ignored);
2. Add defensive shore bombardment;
3. Add offensive shore bombardment;
4. Announce defensive HQ support;
5. Announce offensive HQ support;
6. Fly and resolve ground support missions;
7. Resolve HQ support;
8. The combats are then resolved one by one (attacker choosing the order of combat resolution).

An HQ only tries to provide support. It may succeed or it may fail. To determine which, a die is rolled for each HQ attempting to provide support (i.e., a separate die is rolled for each HQ). If the roll is less than or equal to the HQ's reorganization value, success! The combat odds shift 1 level in the favor of the HQ. For example, a 2-1 combat becomes a 3-2 if the HQ support succeeds for the defender, and becomes a 3-1 if it succeeds for the attacker. Obviously, if both sides add HQ support successfully, the odds shifts cancel each other out.

An HQ that successfully provides HQ support becomes passive. Note that this does not happen if the HQ failed to provide support (because the die roll was greater than its reorganization value). The transformation from active to passive occurs after the subphase Advancing After Combat, and it happens regardless of the combat result.
=============================================================
[10][Emergency HQ Supply][RAW 13 s. 2.4.3]
This rule enables a HQ unit to provide emergency supply. The purpose of providing emergency supply is to enable units to be in supply who otherwise would be out of supply. Curiously, to make use of this optional rule, a unit has to be both out of supply and simultaneously able to reach of a friendly HQ.

To explain this rule a quick review of supply lines is appropriate. Primary supply typically comes from a city in a unit’s home country. Since units fighting far from home can not reach a primary supply source with the short, basic path permitted by the rules (4 hexes), they must instead reach a secondary supply source using that 4 hex path length. And HQ units are the most common secondary supply source for units in the front lines.

If a unit can reach a friendly HQ and that HQ can then trace a supply path to a primary supply source, then the unit is in supply and has no need for emergency supply. So, for this rule to be of any use, we are only talking about the case when the supply path from the HQ to the primary supply source has been cut. This can occur due to a rail line being cut in the rear areas or when a link through a sea area has been lost. When this situation occurs, then an out-of-supply, active HQ can be used to provide emergency supply to nearby units.

Specifically, non-HQ units that are out of supply may use Emergency HQ supply to operate as if they were in supply for one impulse. To do so, the following conditions must be met: (1) the unit can trace a basic supply path to an active HQ with which they cooperate, (2) the HQ doesn’t provide emergency supply to more units than the HQ's reorganization value, and (3) the HQ was not surprised during the impulse.

The player must announce that the HQ is providing emergency supply before any unit can gain the benefit. After the land combat phase, a HQ that provides emergency supply becomes passive.


I realize that this comment opens a mare's nest, but how about providing some guidance to newbies on which options are typically considered pro-Axis or pro-Allies?

_____________________________


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 20
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 3:20:51 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Which optional rules favor which side is not always clear. That sometimes depends on combinations of optional rules. And there is the possibility of helping one of the major powers while hurting another one on the same side. Even which point you are in the war matters, for some favor the attacker and others the defender.

If I am going to include anything on this at all, it will be separate from the description of each optional rule and more as a summary of them all. Most likely I will provide a reference to some other document where these issues have been discussed at length. As you imply in your question, the judgments on these can to be subjective. Especially in measuring the amount of the effect of an optional rule on play balance.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 21
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 3:38:33 AM   
wfzimmerman


Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Which optional rules favor which side is not always clear. That sometimes depends on combinations of optional rules. And there is the possibility of helping one of the major powers while hurting another one on the same side. Even which point you are in the war matters, for some favor the attacker and others the defender.

If I am going to include anything on this at all, it will be separate from the description of each optional rule and more as a summary of them all. Most likely I will provide a reference to some other document where these issues have been discussed at length. As you imply in your question, the judgments on these can to be subjective. Especially in measuring the amount of the effect of an optional rule on play balance.


Agree. Or maybe even just provide a text file with a pointer to the mwif forums.

The game play issue is that discussions over optional rules can massively increase time to start game and poor choice of options can disadvantage newbies. Seems worthwhile for MWIF to make some modest cost-effective attempts to reduce those obstacles.

_____________________________


(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 22
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 5:48:22 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Which optional rules favor which side is not always clear. That sometimes depends on combinations of optional rules. And there is the possibility of helping one of the major powers while hurting another one on the same side. Even which point you are in the war matters, for some favor the attacker and others the defender.

If I am going to include anything on this at all, it will be separate from the description of each optional rule and more as a summary of them all. Most likely I will provide a reference to some other document where these issues have been discussed at length. As you imply in your question, the judgments on these can to be subjective. Especially in measuring the amount of the effect of an optional rule on play balance.


Agree. Or maybe even just provide a text file with a pointer to the mwif forums.

The game play issue is that discussions over optional rules can massively increase time to start game and poor choice of options can disadvantage newbies. Seems worthwhile for MWIF to make some modest cost-effective attempts to reduce those obstacles.


Well, an easier answer to that might be to have various sets of optional rules chosen/preset for specifc purposes. For example, two players, experienced versus WIF newcomer, play with optional rule set X, experienced player plays Axis (or Allied) side. Several variations to handle different scenarios, 3 or more players and so on.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to wfzimmerman)
Post #: 23
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 4:15:13 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

Here are some more of the writeups on the optional rules. I have made corrections to the one for engineers.
Please review for clarity and accuracy.

Read, and it seems ok for me.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 24
RE: optional rules - 8/8/2006 6:21:41 PM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

When using the 2d10 land CRT the preceding paragraph is replaced by the following. Engineers provide 1 odds shift for each combat factor when attacking or defending any city hex. An engineer with a combat strength of 2 provides two combat shifts on the 2d10 land CRT. These benefits are in addition to other benefits and can be used simultaneously (e.g. gaining both benefits when attacking across a river into a city). If an ENG provides any benefits in an attack, it always suffers the first loss (even before white print units attacking in winter).


I might point out here that the engineer's effects when attacking cities are not quite that powerful (an odds shift amounts to +2 on the dice when using 2d10): they only add +1 to the die roll for each engineer combat factor attacking a city, which amounts to a 1/2-odds shift.

Also:

quote:

ORIGINAL: wfzimmerman

I realize that this comment opens a mare's nest, but how about providing some guidance to newbies on which options are typically considered pro-Axis or pro-Allies?


There is actually, in ADG's 2001 (or millennial) edition of the WiF Annual, a chart showing how pro-Axis or pro-Allied each option is. Maybe I will attempt to write it up here this evening.


_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 25
RE: optional rules - 8/9/2006 7:08:00 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
Some more of the optional rules descriptions for everyone to critique. This is my daily editing task currently. When I get to #81, I'll stop.

=============================================================
[11][Synthetic Oil Plants][RAW 14 s. 22.4.11]
This optional rule adds Synthetic oil units to the game. Synthetic oil units represent plants designed to turn coal into fuel oil. Such plants were built extensively by Germany during the war, and also, to some extent, by Japan.

Like most other units, synthetic oil plants are limited to those available in the counter mix. The placement of synthetic oil plants is in any hex controlled by their major power that isn't in an enemy ZOC and won't violate stacking. Stacking is only 1 per hex. Once on the map, they produce 1 oil resource point per turn for whoever controls their hex.

Synthetic oil plants can be destroyed the same way factories are, if that optional rule is being used. However, synthetic oil plants can not be repaired. Note that they can be captured and used by the new owner.
=============================================================
[12][Off City Reinforcement][RAW 15 s. 4.2]
All too frequently, you will want to bring in reinforcements but find that there is nowhere to put them without exceeding stacking limits. This optional rule addresses that situation by letting you bring in reinforcements in a hex adjacent to a city when the city’s stacking capacity has been reached.

If you can't place a reinforcement anywhere, without breaking the stacking rules, you may put it into a hex you control (not in an enemy ZOC) in the unit's home country that is next to a city where you could have placed it except for the rules for stacking limits. This only applies to air and land units. Specifically, it does not apply to naval units. Additionally, only 1 unit per city may be placed in this fashion each turn.
=============================================================
[13][Recruitment Limits][RAW 16 s. 4.2]
Players tend to want to place reinforcements as close to the front lines as possible, so the units can start earning their paychecks. At times this can be unrealistic, with 2 corps sized units plus a division and 3 air units arriving all at once in a hex close to the front line. When 2 or 3 cities are in close proximity, the situation can be exacerbated with an enormous influx of units in one concentrated area.

To help maintain some semblance of realism, this rule restricts how many units can arrive in one hex. Note that militia units are exempt from these new restrictions.

Each turn, and in addition to any militia, only 1 land or 1 aircraft unit (which may include its pilot if that optional rule is being used) may be placed in each eligible city. Also, only 1 naval unit may be placed in each eligible port each turn, with the further restriction that aircraft carriers and battleships may only arrive at major ports. All these limits are doubled for units arriving in major power capitals (e.g., London, Berlin, Washington D.C.).
=============================================================
[14][HQ Movement][RAW 17 s. 11.11.2]
This optional rule adds more realism to the movement of headquarters by placing a small movement penalty on them if they do not move along rail lines. A HQ (both HQ-A and HQ-I) spends one additional movement point for the first hexside it crosses that is not along a rail line. Note that it is only +1 for the first hexside it crosses during the movement phase, not +1 for each hexside. Also, if a HQ follows a rail line throughout its movement in a phase, it does not incur this penalty at all.
=============================================================
[15][Bottomed Ships][RAW 18 s. 11.2]
This optional rule simulates the fact that major naval units sunk while in port could often be refloated. For instance, most of the ships damaged or sunk in the Pearl Harbor attack were repaired and saw service later in the war. The phrase “bottomed ships” refers to the fact that though sunk, the ships were merely sitting on the bottom of the harbor and could be refloated.

When applying naval air attack results against naval units in a port, a result of 'X' (or 2 'D' results) only destroys the target if an accompanying die roll is less than or equal to half its defense factor. If the die roll is greater than half of the unit’s defense factor, it is placed in the construction pool. This is equivalent to having the unit half built. However, convoy points are never bottomed - they are always destroyed.

When the optional rule for carrier planes is being used, the carrier air unit on a sunk carrier is always destroyed. That also includes its accompanying pilot if that optional rule is in effect.
=============================================================
[16][In The Presence Of The Enemy][RAW 19 s. 11.4.2]
This optional rule adds a movement penalty to naval units that enter a sea area where only enemy naval units are present. The basic idea is that when there are enemy ships present, naval units move more carefully. However, if there are already friendly naval units in the sea area, then there is no penalty.

It costs a surface naval unit 2 points of its movement allowance (not range) to enter a sea area that contains an unsurprised enemy aircraft carrier (which has a carrier plane), SCS, or aircraft unit. This does not apply (i.e. you pay normal costs) if, at the start of the impulse, the sea area contained a friendly aircraft carrier (which has a carrier plane), SCS, or aircraft unit.

This penalty doesn't apply to a naval unit returning to base, or if the only enemy units attempting to slow you down are aircraft in a sea area experiencing storm or blizzard weather.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 26
RE: optional rules - 8/9/2006 12:51:23 PM   
Froonp


Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline
quote:

Some more of the optional rules descriptions for everyone to critique.

For the Synthetic Oil Plants you may also add that there are plants that are required to be built in specific hexes (an Italian one) and there is no choice as to the hex where it is built.

Otherwise, this seems ok.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 27
RE: optional rules - 8/9/2006 6:42:53 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

Like most other units, synthetic oil plants are limited to those available in the counter mix.


I noticed that in CWiF, there seemed to be no limit on the number of synth plants a nation could purchase (other than gearing limits and build points being available). Am I wrong here?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 28
RE: optional rules - 8/9/2006 8:21:56 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees
quote:

Like most other units, synthetic oil plants are limited to those available in the counter mix.


I noticed that in CWiF, there seemed to be no limit on the number of synth plants a nation could purchase (other than gearing limits and build points being available). Am I wrong here?


I would have to look at the code. If it does not match the rules, I'll change it so it does.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 29
RE: optional rules - 8/9/2006 8:23:59 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 21870
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

Some more of the optional rules descriptions for everyone to critique.

For the Synthetic Oil Plants you may also add that there are plants that are required to be built in specific hexes (an Italian one) and there is no choice as to the hex where it is built.

Otherwise, this seems ok.


Ok. That last Synthetic oil plant is from Politics in Flames and requires it to be placed in Northern Africa (if it is built). I'll work out a specific hex (if the CWIF code hasn't already taken care of that).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)
Post #: 30
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