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RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 3:00:04 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

Shows that with a little imagination, just about anything is possible.

Ray (alias Lava)


Would it be showing "imagination" if I used TOAW to "simulate" spring cleaning a house?

Always remember that there are other games out there. Not every situation is best modelled in TOAW. There are a lot that are- and a lot that aren't.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Lava)
Post #: 31
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 4:29:34 PM   
Lava


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Would it be showing "imagination" if I used TOAW to "simulate" spring cleaning a house?


Sorry MR. EXPERT

I see you enjoy trolling whenever someone doesn't agree with you.

Ever think about letting other people post without your incessent commentary?

Ray (alias Lava)

_____________________________


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Post #: 32
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 5:35:46 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

I see you enjoy trolling whenever someone doesn't agree with you.

Ever think about letting other people post without your incessent commentary?


If you saw someone trying to turn a screw using a knife, wouldn't you want to offer him a screwdriver?

Basically what I did. The knife's a fine thing. Brian Topp does some interesting things with his knife. He could stand to buy a screwdriver, though.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Lava)
Post #: 33
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 5:46:12 PM   
Chuck2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Always remember that there are other games out there.


Blasphemy.



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Post #: 34
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 5:54:54 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

Blasphemy.


I know, I know. I'll say five "Hail Norm"s...

TOAW's the best one of course.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 35
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 10:39:43 PM   
Curtis Lemay


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From: Houston, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

If you saw someone trying to turn a screw using a knife, wouldn't you want to offer him a screwdriver?

Basically what I did. The knife's a fine thing. Brian Topp does some interesting things with his knife. He could stand to buy a screwdriver, though.


Or if you saw someone using an 88mm Flak gun to kill tanks with. After all, if it was meant to be used to kill tanks, they would have called it an 88mm AT gun.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 36
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/9/2006 11:10:00 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

Or if you saw someone using an 88mm Flak gun to kill tanks with. After all, if it was meant to be used to kill tanks, they would have called it an 88mm AT gun.


Sure- things can do some things they're not designed for. The fact is that the requirements for a heavy anti-aircraft gun are not far off that for an anti-tank gun. Now, if I saw someone using an 88mm gun barrell to plough a field....

Yes, TOAW can do the First World War. Yes, TOAW can be made to do the American Civil War with a bit of work. Yes, one can make a map of the central Mediterranean and put units on it with names like "I Legio". No, one cannot simulate warfare in the 3rd Century BC using TOAW.

Finally, the 88mm anti-aircraft gun was hardly ideal for anti-tank work due to its large size and high profile in particular. It was only used because the Germans didn't have anything else to hand which was suitable. This is not the case when it comes to simulating ancient warfare.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 5/10/2006 2:03:54 AM >


_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Curtis Lemay)
Post #: 37
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 12:25:40 AM   
Chuck2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Yes, TOAW can do the First World War. Yes, TOAW can be made to do the American Civil War with a bit of work. Yes, one can make a map of the central Mediterranean and put units on it with names like "I Legio". No, one cannot simulate warfare in the 3rd Century BC using TOAW.


A scenario should be created covering the Jewish Revolt. Bonus victory points could be rewarded to the Roman side for pillaging and massacres.




http://studylight.org/se/maps/browse.cgi?st=165

< Message edited by Chuck2 -- 5/10/2006 12:28:27 AM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 38
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 12:35:45 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

A scenario should be created covering the Jewish Revolt. Bonus victory points could be rewarded to the Roman side for pillaging and massacres.


Don't forget a TO for the entire population of Zealots at Masada to commit mass suicide.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 39
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 5:38:50 AM   
rhinobones

 

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quote:

Sorry MR. EXPERT
I see you enjoy trolling whenever someone doesn't agree with you.
Ever think about letting other people post without your incessent commentary?


Sounds like this might be a person who I have disagreed with. By his own omission, "They threw us out of their own discussion boards". I wasn't there to read the threads, but there is small wonder why he was tossed. He also had problems getting along with people on the old HQ forum and has a fascination with Orcs and Hobbits. Those threads I have read first hand.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS - Expect a bomb of a reply!!!

_____________________________

Colin Wright:
Comprehensive Wishlist Forum #467 . . . The Norm (blessed be His name, genuflect three times and accept all values in the program as revealed truth)

Pre Combat Air Strikes # 64 . . . I need have no concern about keeping it civil

(in reply to Lava)
Post #: 40
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 6:02:18 AM   
Tim McBride

 

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From: Nebraska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


quote:

Sorry MR. EXPERT
I see you enjoy trolling whenever someone doesn't agree with you.
Ever think about letting other people post without your incessent commentary?


Sounds like this might be a person who I have disagreed with. By his own omission, "They threw us out of their own discussion boards". I wasn't there to read the threads, but there is small wonder why he was tossed. He also had problems getting along with people on the old HQ forum and has a fascination with Orcs and Hobbits. Those threads I have read first hand.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS - Expect a bomb of a reply!!!


The Talonsoft forums got tossed becuase everyone was demanding stuff from TS; and if I remember correctly Ben(Golden D) wasn't even active on the boards then. As for the WFHQ thing that is more my fault then anyone elses.

_____________________________

"Stand your ground. Don't fire unless fired upon. But if they mean to have a war, let it begin here."-John Parker

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Post #: 41
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 6:09:36 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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The deeper one digs in a mud puddle, the dirtier everyone gets. Let's keep this place clean, gents.

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Post #: 42
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 6:26:52 AM   
Chuck2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

A scenario should be created covering the Jewish Revolt. Bonus victory points could be rewarded to the Roman side for pillaging and massacres.


Don't forget a TO for the entire population of Zealots at Masada to commit mass suicide.


I wonder if Curt Chamber's Vietnam scenario could be used as a model for this scenario. Little actual fighting but lots of force management and politics. Victory points added and subtracted for various decisions. The only difference is that the Romans would be expected to win the war instead of lose it.

_____________________________


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Post #: 43
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 12:52:51 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Sounds like this might be a person who I have disagreed with. By his own omission, "They threw us out of their own discussion boards". I wasn't there to read the threads, but there is small wonder why he was tossed.


See Tim's remarks. Remarkable how eager you are to engage in character assassination.

quote:

He also had problems getting along with people on the old HQ forum and has a fascination with Orcs and Hobbits.


Presumably not intended in a negative sense. You're the one who made the scenario.

I'm not the only one who has a problem with the people on the old HQ forum. I'd probably be less likely to clash with people if bloody TDG would get fixed. The others are pretty much still persona non grata at WHQ after they dared to... well, actually I don't think anyone wants me to say why.

quote:

PS - Expect a bomb of a reply!!!


Too bloody right.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 5/10/2006 1:48:43 PM >


_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 44
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 12:54:11 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tim McBride
and if I remember correctly Ben(Golden D) wasn't even active on the boards then.


I was just about. Started around May 2000. I certainly wasn't at the core of the problem.


_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Tim McBride)
Post #: 45
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 12:56:33 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

The deeper one digs in a mud puddle, the dirtier everyone gets. Let's keep this place clean, gents.


Well I don't intend to make personal remarks about anyone. That should help.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 46
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 12:59:19 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

I wonder if Curt Chamber's Vietnam scenario could be used as a model for this scenario. Little actual fighting but lots of force management and politics. Victory points added and subtracted for various decisions. The only difference is that the Romans would be expected to win the war instead of lose it.


There's "little actual fighting" because it's a pre-modern war. There were pitched battles and sieges in a quantity which isn't really below normal for this kind of conflict. See the maps you posted.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 47
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/10/2006 4:08:39 PM   
Chuck2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

I wonder if Curt Chamber's Vietnam scenario could be used as a model for this scenario. Little actual fighting but lots of force management and politics. Victory points added and subtracted for various decisions. The only difference is that the Romans would be expected to win the war instead of lose it.


There's "little actual fighting" because it's a pre-modern war. There were pitched battles and sieges in a quantity which isn't really below normal for this kind of conflict. See the maps you posted.


Well, the revolt seems to have lasted six years. So even if there were a few dozen major battles/sieges that wouldn't amount to much over 50 one-month turns since each action would occur in a single hex. The important task would be calling for the right number of reinforcement legions based on the actions of the Jews.

< Message edited by Chuck2 -- 5/10/2006 4:19:03 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 48
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/11/2006 1:48:33 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck2

Well, the revolt seems to have lasted six years. So even if there were a few dozen major battles/sieges that wouldn't amount to much over 50 one-month turns since each action would occur in a single hex.


That's nothing. Take a look at the Hundred Years' War. Whole decades when literally nothing happened.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Chuck2)
Post #: 49
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/11/2006 1:50:30 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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Sounds like housecleaning around my pad...

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 50
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/11/2006 1:54:08 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Sounds like housecleaning around my pad...


LOL. Go for a chevauchee in the living room. Loot and pillage the change from down the back of the sofa.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 51
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/11/2006 3:02:26 AM   
Central Blue

 

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speaking of other games....

Age of Rifles is one I dearly miss, and wish I hadn't let go of.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

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Post #: 52
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 12:01:59 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
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From: Northern California
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I'm a programmer, and I played around with some scenarios before giving up, because the events editor really, really irritated me. What would be great would be a simple scripting language with an object model, and a set of hooks to the game engine, such that events would become simple programming, rather than the cumbersome, and error prone event editor.

So people could write some script that looked like...

OnEveryTurn
If Units.Find("V Corp HQ").IsDestroyed Then
Formations.Find("2nd Armored Division").Proficiency -= 10
Formations.Find("4th Infantry Division").Proficiency -= 10
News.AddNews("V Corps HQ destroyed! V Corps divisions lose combat effectiveness!")
Endif
End





_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

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Post #: 53
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 1:02:20 AM   
rhinobones

 

Posts: 1274
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quote:

ORIGINAL:
I love it when a plan comes together.

OnEveryTurn
If Units.Find("V Corp HQ").IsDestroyed Then
Formations.Find("2nd Armored Division").Proficiency -= 10
Formations.Find("4th Infantry Division").Proficiency -= 10
News.AddNews("V Corps HQ destroyed! V Corps divisions lose combat effectiveness!")
Endif
End


Think that most people on this forum will agree that a more “user friendly” event editor is in order. Also believe that TOAW III (or maybe a later version) will be the answer to most of our complaints.

Like your solution. Is it possible to put it into a spreadsheet format so that computer literates like me are able to construct events rapidly?

While I’m at it, would also like to see the formation/unit values displayed, and editable, in a spreadsheet format. These would be things like proficiency, supply and readiness. Instead of quizzing each unit individually, it would be nice to see them all in a spreadsheet where you can not only change values, but also see how those values are in relation to the other units.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS – “. . . when a plan comes together . . .” is that something Jack said in SG1?



< Message edited by rhinobones -- 5/14/2006 1:06:34 AM >

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Post #: 54
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 1:12:39 AM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I love it when a plan comes together.

OnEveryTurn
If Units.Find("V Corp HQ").IsDestroyed Then
Formations.Find("2nd Armored Division").Proficiency -= 10
Formations.Find("4th Infantry Division").Proficiency -= 10
News.AddNews("V Corps HQ destroyed! V Corps divisions lose combat effectiveness!")
Endif
End


Think that most people on this forum will agree that a more “user friendly” event editor is in order. Also believe that TOAW III (or maybe a later version) will be the answer to most of our complaints.

Like your solution. Is it possible to put it into a spreadsheet format so that computer literates like me are able to construct events rapidly?

While I’m at it, would also like to see the formation/unit values displayed, and editable, in a spreadsheet format. These would be things like proficiency, supply and readiness. Instead of quizzing each unit individually, it would be nice to see them all in a spreadsheet where you can not only change values, but also see how those values are in relation to the other units.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS – “. . . when a plan comes together . . .” is that something Jack said in SG1?



Eventually, I plan to expost all the events in a scripting language called Python. You'll be able to use it in addition to the current event engine.

For now, I did add in F6/F7 (Event Load/Save) The current format is CSV, and very unfriendly, but it should be useful for some things, especially translation.

Ralph

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 55
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 1:19:45 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4872
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones
PS – “. . . when a plan comes together . . .” is that something Jack said in SG1?


I'm sure the expression is quite a bit older than that. I tried to search for it on some quotations website but didn't get any results.

Now I am expecting you to make a stargate scenario. What's the AP factor of a Jaffa squad?

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 5/14/2006 1:24:59 AM >


_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 56
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 2:10:47 AM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

Posts: 1152
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From: Los Osos, CA
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quote:

PS – “. . . when a plan comes together . . .” is that something Jack said in SG1?


"I love it when a plan comes together" - Hannibal of '80s TV series The A-Team


(in reply to rhinobones)
Post #: 57
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 4:06:55 AM   
JAMiAM

 

Posts: 6165
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I think it was Ug-Larak, somewhere on the Siberian Plains, immediately following his tribe's first successful Mastodon hunt, ca 50,000 BCE...

(in reply to TAIL GUNNER)
Post #: 58
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 9:08:51 PM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 683
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From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

quote:

ORIGINAL:
I love it when a plan comes together.

OnEveryTurn
If Units.Find("V Corp HQ").IsDestroyed Then
Formations.Find("2nd Armored Division").Proficiency -= 10
Formations.Find("4th Infantry Division").Proficiency -= 10
News.AddNews("V Corps HQ destroyed! V Corps divisions lose combat effectiveness!")
Endif
End


Think that most people on this forum will agree that a more “user friendly” event editor is in order. Also believe that TOAW III (or maybe a later version) will be the answer to most of our complaints.

Like your solution. Is it possible to put it into a spreadsheet format so that computer literates like me are able to construct events rapidly?

While I’m at it, would also like to see the formation/unit values displayed, and editable, in a spreadsheet format. These would be things like proficiency, supply and readiness. Instead of quizzing each unit individually, it would be nice to see them all in a spreadsheet where you can not only change values, but also see how those values are in relation to the other units.

Regards, RhinoBones

PS – “. . . when a plan comes together . . .” is that something Jack said in SG1?



Eventually, I plan to expost all the events in a scripting language called Python. You'll be able to use it in addition to the current event engine.

For now, I did add in F6/F7 (Event Load/Save) The current format is CSV, and very unfriendly, but it should be useful for some things, especially translation.

Ralph


Rhinobones has some valid points. ODD already exports events to an excel compatible spreadsheet. I don't know much about CSV format but if that's the chosen format I'll learn enough to at least let ODD write to it.

I'm curious as what other event changes are planned for this upcoming release.

More events?
Different Triggers / Effects?
Different behavior?

Curt

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 59
RE: Any plans to improve the Editor? - 5/14/2006 10:26:02 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raindem


Rhinobones has some valid points. ODD already exports events to an excel compatible spreadsheet. I don't know much about CSV format but if that's the chosen format I'll learn enough to at least let ODD write to it.

I'm curious as what other event changes are planned for this upcoming release.

More events?
Different Triggers / Effects?
Different behavior?

Curt

Curt,
There are no new events planned for TOAW 3, it was supposed to be a quick update to get it back out on the marker

CSV is short for comma separated value (value, value, value.) It should be trivial to let ODD read/write it. I believe that Excel lets you read/write this fromat, although I didn't check for compatibility.

The scenario output changed a little, I added in some missing information. Not all of it, but it has changed slightly.

Ralph

(in reply to Raindem)
Post #: 60
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