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Dutch Air Force - Why Save it?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? Page: [1]
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Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/26/2006 4:07:27 PM   
Nomad

 

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I am playing a Nik 5.02 mod and I notice that the Dutch get 4 brand new pilots each and every month.

Is it really worth it to save them and deal with no trained pilots, like Japan has to do?

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/26/2006 4:22:02 PM   
niceguy2005


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I save the Dutch Martins, transports and the recon planes. Both groups train up nicely. The Dutch fighters I will let be destroyed. The Martins are very valuable early, in particular in Southeast Asia. The recon planes I find are gold in China or other places and even the old bi-planes eventually upgrade to F5s. The transports are also great for Southeast asia and for China.

The Dutch do only get 4 pilots a month, but if these groups aren't seeing heavy combat that will be enough.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/26/2006 4:22:10 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


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Its worth it for search a/c .. esp when you can upgrade them in july . as for the rest .. meh .. pretty useless once the DEI has fallen. sure the Martins have an ok range but as you say without decent pilots all you'll do is lose points from accidents .

Search planes are pretty easy to train up and are useful for recon too.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/26/2006 4:32:15 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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Save everything! I've got some mean ass Dutch squadrons now. A Brewster 16 plane squadron now has 30 pilots as I used it to disband the others into (which come back with more Brewsters or Demons or Hawks and pilots to fly them, despite none in pool...seems different than before. A few are aces for gawd sake! Martin squadrons, if disbanded, return with Beaufort V-IXs. or Hudsons.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/26/2006 6:21:46 PM   
pauk


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and then people complains "game move too fast"...

current model=game moving too fast

Rons model= game moving to fast + more ac

Ron's model=game moving even faster

sorry, couldn't resist (but i really hope that you see my point - what's the point of complaining when players do everyting to screw current model? (including you:))

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 2:42:16 AM   
Feinder


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The Brewsters and Daemons work fine as escorts, all you're looking for is to meet the 1:3 escort:CAP raio. Who cares if all you escorts die, if the trigger the launch, disrupt the CAP enough for bombers to get thru.

Save 'em all. Just let 'em take a few losses first, they get cheaper.

-F-

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 3:06:24 AM   
Knavey

 

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Just turned OFF the upgrades in our TEAM game that is getting ready to hit July, 42. Want to make sure those Dutch squadrons that Feinder evaced and have been drinking Aussie beer for the last 5 months upgrade the way I want them to and not randomly!

Save em all...you never know when you might need LRCAP or something to prevent those Bettys and Nells from launching.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 3:20:40 AM   
Ron Saueracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

and then people complains "game move too fast"...

current model=game moving too fast

Rons model= game moving to fast + more ac

Ron's model=game moving even faster

sorry, couldn't resist (but i really hope that you see my point - what's the point of complaining when players do everyting to screw current model? (including you:))


The DEI still exists in my PBEM. I disband a squadron, it comes back! What are we to do? We can't reprogram the game. If the DEI was gone, I use the units for air search. Before, the squadron would come back but have no pilots but this has changed since a few builds ago. Makes no sense to take pot shots at me when I'm not the issue.


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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 5:41:20 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

The Brewsters and Daemons work fine as escorts, all you're looking for is to meet the 1:3 escort:CAP raio. Who cares if all you escorts die, if the trigger the launch, disrupt the CAP enough for bombers to get thru.

Save 'em all. Just let 'em take a few losses first, they get cheaper.

-F-

The Hawks and the Brewsters also make serviceable CAP. The Daemons are wortless for other than escort. My squadron of Hawks actually had a couple of pilots in the 70s. They were enough of a force to make sure that the opponent had to send Zeros as escorts for his bombers instead of Nates or Oscars.

If you have the chance to save these planes as well, do it. They make ok second line fighters in India and Oz.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 6:34:20 PM   
Nikademus


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My Dutch always fight to the death defending their territory. If all is lost I may save a few but its mostly Commonwealth forces that retreat to Oz.



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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 7:42:15 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

My Dutch always fight to the death defending their territory. If all is lost I may save a few but its mostly Commonwealth forces that retreat to Oz.



The Dutch in my games, from here forward will fight until the end. I assume that we are talking about flying out the remains of the dutch right before the fall of their last airfields.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 10:30:36 PM   
ny59giants


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When it comes to the Dutch, I save in this order: both large Avaition units, some BF's, and then if I have the PP's, a few Inf Rgt.
On LBA's, the recon because the Allies have so few and convert them to F-5's in 7/42. The transport because they can always be used in SEAC or China. The fighters convert to Kittyhawks III, but that will not be until '43 and the Martin's go to B-25J's (I think) and thus again not until '43. Thus, these two usually die defending the last of the Dutch possessions.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/27/2006 11:42:00 PM   
Nikademus


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Yes but its rare that they escape. Oh well....many will replace the fallen.



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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 1:10:13 AM   
ny59giants


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The Dutch Fk 51's convert to F-5's and only have a range of 2 hexes. So, I save them because they are useless to use in a naval search role (use Do24k-2). How many F-5 squdrons do the Allies get during the game?? I have only played through part of '43 and had only 2. Thus, I want those Dutch recon squadrons.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 1:14:03 AM   
niceguy2005


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I agree 100% and use the FK 51s for recon of ground combat. I want the DL of enemy forces as high as possible. They are perfectly suited for defending JAVA and cost almost nothing to save at the last minute.

Question: if you disband an FK 51 unit will it come back as anything later?

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 1:22:04 AM   
Feinder


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I don't know what the Fk's come back as if disbanded. But also be advised that it takes a while to have enough planes to convert the recons to F-5s (within only 10 - 15 replacements a month). It takes a while to get the required number. I just end up putting the Fk's in Alice Springs where I can forget about them, until I have enough F-5s to upgrade them.

-F-

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 2:53:17 AM   
ny59giants


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Most of my surviving Dutch LBA end up in Southern Oz & chasing all the lonely girls until '43.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 3:59:04 AM   
RUPD3658


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Get them out!

It costs a few PPs to change them when they cease to be combat effective and they upgrade to good planes later. The lack of pilots only means that you will have to suffer what the Japanese player does and will have to train them for a while.

In the few Alled games I have played the Dutch Air Force does a number on Jap shipping before it is exhuasted and has to be withdrawn. In 42-43 you need every plane and avaiation support unit you can get so rescue those base forces too. Just make sure yo set the ones with big coast guns to No Replacement or upgrades until you get them where you want them. If they upgrade before this they become static.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 2:56:54 PM   
Dino


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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Question: if you disband an FK 51 unit will it come back as anything later?


It comes back as FK 51, but all Dutch groups draw ACs from the pool and since this plane is not beeing produced, you will have to wait for your pool of F-5s to build up (slooooow).

If you have any FK 51 groups with ACs, frist upgrade those in order to release their planes to the pool, so that your empty groups can draw ACs and start training.

Martins upgrade to Hudsons -> Beuforts (they come back as Beuforts when disbanded)

Do24Ks come back as PBY Catalinas

Dutch pilot replacement rate is not such a big problem since even their trained pilots have low exp. (IIRC - 45) The untrained pilots can train to 40 exp. quite quickly.


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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 3:07:03 PM   
Sardaukar


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To original question...why not ??

Especially when playing CHS, Brit replacement rate for pilots is 30 (IIRC), so every additional pilot can count in 1942. Of course Dutch fighter planes upgrade to Kittyhawk III..available in 7/43.... But every pilot and plane as reinforcement is good.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 3:23:55 PM   
Nomad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

To original question...why not ??

Especially when playing CHS, Brit replacement rate for pilots is 30 (IIRC), so every additional pilot can count in 1942. Of course Dutch fighter planes upgrade to Kittyhawk III..available in 7/43.... But every pilot and plane as reinforcement is good.


To answer the first question, PPs. I can use the saved PPs to replace the staff officers on my ships.

I will trasnfer any non Dutch air units assigned to the ABDA, I was wondering about the Dutch manned ones.

The Martins will upgrade to B-25C and I have enough of them.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 3:50:25 PM   
Dino


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It doesn't cost anything to disband them... They will come back in Sidney in 90 days. So you just have to decide what you want to do with the last unit of the type.

I would certaly save transports, patrols, recons and bombers.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 6:02:39 PM   
niceguy2005


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It also seems higly situational to me. In one game I started evacuating my dutch forces early and ended up regretting it. My opponenent came at me with far less force than I thought he would use and I found myself wishing I had all those planes and base forces back.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 6:06:25 PM   
dtravel


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I thought the Dutch air units did NOT return is disbanded/withdrawn.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 6:34:51 PM   
pauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I thought the Dutch air units did NOT return is disbanded/withdrawn.


I thought so. But Ron corrected me. Anyway, don't think that should happen...

Why is that?

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/28/2006 6:47:20 PM   
niceguy2005


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I thought the Dutch air units did NOT return is disbanded/withdrawn.

They do appear to return. I have Martins starting to arrive in Sydney.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/29/2006 3:30:42 PM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I thought the Dutch air units did NOT return is disbanded/withdrawn.

They do appear to return. I have Martins starting to arrive in Sydney.



They DEFINITELY return!! Often with no allotted planes or pilots, but they do come back.

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RE: Dutch Air Force - Why Save it? - 3/30/2006 3:11:16 PM   
ny59giants


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So I can disband some of my Dutch air units so they come back in Sydney and save myself some PP's. I like that idea!!

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