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Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1

 
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Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 8:03:38 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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With the release of TOAW 3 just a few weeks away, we thought we'd take the opportunity to whet your appetite for the Matrix Games edition of this classic game. We'll start with one of the new advanced game options that will be available, the "No Borders" option.






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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 8:39:31 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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This feature will add an additional layer to the "Fog of War". There are many scenarios that will benefit from this option. For example, those dealing with early 20th century warfare, fast-paced desert battles, and guerrilla-intensive scenarios, where an enforceable means of limited battlefield intelligence is called for. In earlier versions of TOAW, players had the option of toggling the hex supply display, borders, and hex possession icons off. However, this combination of options was chosen from the control panel or menu, and left something to be desired. First off, the owning player was then completely unaware of whether his own forces would be able to trace supply, and would not know until after the following ABP, by which time they would already be tagged unsupplied. Further, it was unenforceable. A less than honorable opponent could easily turn back on borders and supply for his turn and surreptitiously gain an advantage. This unenforceability led to many players choosing to eschew a designer's recommendations of playing without visible borders, simply to ensure that the game was on the level.

Obviously, not all scenarios should be played with this option on, and not all players will find the lack of information to their liking. However, it is ideal for those players who want an additional level of challenge in the game, both against the Programmed Opponent (PO), as well as against other human players. In solo games, it will be able to be toggled on and off at will, but for PBEM games, once set, it is in effect for the entire game.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 9:31:19 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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What does choosing the option do? I'm glad you asked...

From the revised manual and help files:

quote:

No Borders: You can only see the borders and supply rate for hexes that your forces are adjacent to, or have occupied this turn. This is an additional means of increasing the fog of war.


Here's a screenshot of it activated. The upload limits here require that I can only show a small portion of the map...




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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 12:45:08 PM   
Lava


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Hi!

Could you clear up something here for me...

Does this mean that if enemy forces move into your territory you won't be able to "see" them (as in the frontier line moving) unless a unit is within recon distance?

Does it also mean that you won't be able to tell if a railroad hex has been destroyed unless one of your units actually moves through the area?

Thanks for the update BTW. Keep them coming!

Ray (alias Lava)

< Message edited by Lava -- 3/21/2006 1:23:55 PM >


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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 3:21:36 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

Does this mean that if enemy forces move into your territory you won't be able to "see" them (as in the frontier line moving) unless a unit is within recon distance?


From the looks of things, unless the hex is 'observed' or 'spotted'. In short you won't be able to tell the unit is there unless you can physically see the icon on the map.

quote:

Does it also mean that you won't be able to tell if a railroad hex has been destroyed unless one of your units actually moves through the area?


I doubt that broken rail would be invisible. But that's fair enough since cutting a rail line is a dead giveaway (unless you're a guerrilla unit and don't change hex ownership anyway).

Anyway, good start. An optional addition which adds extra functionality (the ability to check your supply situation in such scenarios). The next step is to have this option set per force using events....

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 4:53:57 PM   
ralphtricky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Anyway, good start. An optional addition which adds extra functionality (the ability to check your supply situation in such scenarios).

I'm not sure what you mean here? The supply and borders options are still available, hoever, they only apply to hexes which are adjacent to your units. If you look at the screenshot, the supplied hexes and the level of supply in them are clearly visible.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 5:33:09 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

I'm not sure what you mean here? The supply and borders options are still available, hoever, they only apply to hexes which are adjacent to your units. If you look at the screenshot, the supplied hexes and the level of supply in them are clearly visible.


Sorry, I was just saying what I liked about the new feature. There's a suspicion that a great many of the changes being made to the game involve just securing against foul play. This change does that- but it also adds extra functionality on top of it.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 7:17:28 PM   
Lava


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
This change does that- but it also adds extra functionality on top of it.


That's what it seems like to me.. and I like it.

Ray (alias Lava)

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 8:37:55 PM   
DBeves

 

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Oh dear...
I see those rivers are still IN the hexes.
I know some people say it doesnt matter but sorry it means all kinds of movement anomolies that killed the original for me.
So thats not changed then ?

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 8:42:30 PM   
DBeves

 

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Oh and another thing - I seem to remember in the original game that supply tracing was un-affected by terrain.
Is this still the case ?
What this meant was that you could just as easily trace supply through a 6ft deep swamp as you could through a 4 lane highway.
I apologise if I'm thinking of another game but Im sure it was this one. Another little thing that stopped me playing. here was so much to like about this game was kind of hoping Matrix would be changing these issues.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 9:02:14 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

I see those rivers are still IN the hexes.


Changing this outright would mean every single existing scenario would have to be rewritten.

quote:

What this meant was that you could just as easily trace supply through a 6ft deep swamp as you could through a 4 lane highway.
I apologise if I'm thinking of another game but Im sure it was this one.


You must have been thinking of another game. Supply trace is heavily affected by terrain in TOAW and always has been.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/21/2006 11:40:05 PM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

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Hey, I'm a recent Born-Again TOAW player.....and I've forgotten what the supply numbers mean...

Say I have a unit at 50% supply, and it's sittin' on a hex that shows supply of "25"....does that mean the next turn the unit will be at 75% supply? What's the adjacent HQ bonus?

Thanks,

ChadG

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/22/2006 1:39:21 AM   
DBeves

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

I see those rivers are still IN the hexes.


Changing this outright would mean every single existing scenario would have to be rewritten.

quote:

What this meant was that you could just as easily trace supply through a 6ft deep swamp as you could through a 4 lane highway.
I apologise if I'm thinking of another game but Im sure it was this one.


You must have been thinking of another game. Supply trace is heavily affected by terrain in TOAW and always has been.


Ok - I guess I will have to take your word for it - would have thought terrain was a game engine thing not a specific scenario thing but hey....maybe the terrains in the scenario files although would't have thought it impossible to write some conversion thing - I guess they are going to charge us full price for this thing ?

Oh well must be wrong about that one then - what game was it now ......

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/22/2006 3:42:40 AM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Juggalo

Say I have a unit at 50% supply, and it's sittin' on a hex that shows supply of "25"....does that mean the next turn the unit will be at 75% supply?


The base level of supply gained is the number you see (25) multiplied by the formation supply level.

quote:

What's the adjacent HQ bonus?


A co-operative HQ boosts supply gain by 50%. So sayeth the (deeply flawed) manual.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/22/2006 8:03:40 AM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


The base level of supply gained is the number you see (25) multiplied by the formation supply level.


OK, so where can you find the "formation supply level"?

Am I correct in guessing the scenario designer sets that attribute and it's invisible to the player?


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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/22/2006 8:59:20 AM   
panzerpelle

 

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Take a look at the formation profiency and you have the number for the formation supply level.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/22/2006 9:04:34 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Juggalo


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


The base level of supply gained is the number you see (25) multiplied by the formation supply level.


OK, so where can you find the "formation supply level"?

Am I correct in guessing the scenario designer sets that attribute and it's invisible to the player?



The formation supply level is nominally set in the force editor. It will drop from the nominal, if the designer has used support squads in the formation's HQ(s), and some of them have been lost. Otherwise, it remains constant, if no support squads are used in the formation's HQ's. As a player, you can see this percentage, by looking at the unit's formation report. It is the "supply" number in the upper right. In the example below, the formation supply level is 65%.

The supply received by the unit is equal to the [map value*fsl*(2/3)], before any modifiers for adjacent cooperative HQ's or supply units. The (2/3) multiplier is, unfortunately, undocumented in the manuals of earlier versions of TOAW.




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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/22/2006 10:11:07 PM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

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Thanks JAM and Golden D.

Now onto Feature Preview #2!



< Message edited by Juggalo -- 3/23/2006 11:36:09 PM >

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/23/2006 11:37:00 PM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

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Sorry, one more question about supply then I swear I'll shut-up forever on the subject....

What do the full yellow circles and half blue, half yellow circles signify?

Thanks again,
ChadG

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/23/2006 11:58:25 PM   
benpark

 

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I think a few of us are lapsed CoW players here, so the changes don't have the impact that some of the fanatics are maybe seeing. The changes seem fairly subtle so far. If you have something big in the list of changes, pull it out of the hat.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/24/2006 3:51:27 AM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark

I think a few of us are lapsed CoW players here, so the changes don't have the impact that some of the fanatics are maybe seeing. The changes seem fairly subtle so far.


No... the changes are pretty subtle so far. In fact, my understanding is that this is going to be the mode for Matrix's first release. The key point is the prospect of ongoing support for the product.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/24/2006 4:39:12 PM   
ralphtricky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark

I think a few of us are lapsed CoW players here, so the changes don't have the impact that some of the fanatics are maybe seeing. The changes seem fairly subtle so far.


No... the changes are pretty subtle so far. In fact, my understanding is that this is going to be the mode for Matrix's first release. The key point is the prospect of ongoing support for the product.

That was the original intent anyway. To my mind, the major change (the one I spent the most time on, anyway) was in updating the AI, Elmer. You probably won't find the AI talked about much in the forums. Right now, the forums are almost exclusively PBEM.

The last Elmer was pretty seriously broken. Norm was aware of some of the problems, but didn't have time to fix them before shipping, since they would have broken several scenario's balance. Since this is a 'new' product, I felt free to fix the bugs, and add some improvements of my own.

I don't know exactly how well Elmer can play now, especially if people start designing for Elmer. I know that I've played Korea against the new Elmer, and it feels a lot different now. My memory of playing with the COW version was that it was a cakewalk, right now, I've almost been kicked off of the mainland entirely. Ive got a toehold on Pusan, and control a strip of the south.

Arracourt as the Germans is tough. You can get a draw easily, or moderate victory with a little luck, but a decisive victory isn't nearly as easy as it was in COW.

I'm also a 'casual' player, not a 'veteran' TOAW player, so I've added some little things to TOAW for beginners. For example, if your cursor is over an enemy unit, it will show the name, if spotted, like it used to. But if it isn't spotted, it will now show the unit type instead of 'unknown.' That's for people like me that don't have memorized the symbole for 'Motorcycle recon', etc. I've also 'borrowed' some hotkeys from other games. The veterans won't notice most of these changes, but the casual users will.

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/24/2006 6:29:07 PM   
Lava


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
To my mind, the major change (the one I spent the most time on, anyway) was in updating the AI, Elmer.




I'm sure I'm not the only one who will be grateful for your work.

Thanks,

Ray (alias Lava)

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RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #1 - 3/24/2006 10:24:06 PM   
benpark

 

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Thanks for the information. Improved AI will be enough to get me to repurchase the new and improved version.

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