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RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP?

 
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RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 4:00:23 PM   
Rainer

 

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A wise decision, I'm sure.
I have played PacWar since the day it came out. Must have been thousands of hours.
Finally WitP arrived.
And it's good. Period.
Flaws? Yes, but so had PacWar.
Remember what Gary Grigsby said shortly after PacWar was brought to the market? "Pacific War is not complicated enough".
Buy WitP, master the (steeeeep) learning curve, have fun, and just ignore the few whose names and complaints are well known.
Matrix/3by2 apparently have no intention to give up on WitP. Their representatives (incl. Mike Wood) are constantly present here. They do care. And over time they will iron out the remaining flaws. Maybe not all, but the major ones.
Enjoy the game.



(in reply to whippleofd)
Post #: 31
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 4:13:17 PM   
Nikademus


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what he said.....

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RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 4:28:54 PM   
Titanwarrior89


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Yes you must by. Its the best out there, even with all its faults.

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Post #: 33
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 5:26:44 PM   
Skyros


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Yes go for it!. Not only is it better then PacWar, the users are very vocal and supportive of the game(in one way or another), the art mods alone are awesome. I also love the cool game interface

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Post #: 34
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 5:28:54 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whipple

So it comes down to this: If you could go back in time would you buy the game?


I would. Hey I'd pay 2x the price asked.

But then again I am Beta Boy Bitch and guy who "blows roses up developer's asses" (quote by Ron S.)

O.


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Post #: 35
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 5:38:57 PM   
509th Bob


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To Whipple - buy it. I played PacWar forever and loved it. WiTP is much better. My only complaint is the fact that I spend about two hours planning each move. So, I'm still stuck in 1942.

As for Oleg - try blowing "sunshine," it doesn't have thorns.

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(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 36
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 5:48:30 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 509th Bob
As for Oleg - try blowing "sunshine," it doesn't have thorns.


LOL I think Ron meant "rose petals" but I didn't want to change that lest I be accused of misquoting

O.


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Post #: 37
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 6:14:16 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Love it favourite game its the best

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Post #: 38
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 7:05:06 PM   
bradfordkay

 

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The fact that a year and a half after release the game's forums still are so active speaks volumes. Buy it if you enjoyed PacWar, you will not regret it.

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Post #: 39
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 9:47:32 PM   
sfbaytf

 

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I'm going to have to agree with those who say wait and see if the serious bugs get fixed. I was in a PBEM game that was in progress. After 4 months the dissapearing land unit bug reared its ugly head. I had invaded a base with an entire division when suddenly it magically teleported to a far off place. Considering the nature of the Pacific war where occupation of a single strategic island/base could significantly change the course of the war, this pretty much kills the game for now. Having remants of land units scattered all over the Pacific doesn't help things either.

And yes the coordination issue with carrier task forces exists. The leadership bug is a pisser, but not nearly so serious as the dissapearing LCU bug.

As Cramer would say "don't buy-don't buy-don't buy" (train wreck sound in the background.

Check back in 2006 and see if the bugs have been fixed...

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Post #: 40
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/23/2005 10:20:32 PM   
Tristanjohn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I'm going to have to agree with those who say wait and see if the serious bugs get fixed. I was in a PBEM game that was in progress. After 4 months the dissapearing land unit bug reared its ugly head. I had invaded a base with an entire division when suddenly it magically teleported to a far off place. Considering the nature of the Pacific war where occupation of a single strategic island/base could significantly change the course of the war, this pretty much kills the game for now. Having remants of land units scattered all over the Pacific doesn't help things either.

And yes the coordination issue with carrier task forces exists. The leadership bug is a pisser, but not nearly so serious as the dissapearing LCU bug.

As Cramer would say "don't buy-don't buy-don't buy" (train wreck sound in the background.

Check back in 2006 and see if the bugs have been fixed...


I believe you're dreaming when it comes to this "2006" stuff, but otherwise we're on the same page. A pity, for the system's concept does not lack potential.


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Post #: 41
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 2:29:25 AM   
scout1


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quote:

what he said.....


Do you write speeches for a living ?

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Post #: 42
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 2:53:10 AM   
Buck Beach

 

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My goodness aren't you bitter!! I loved PacWar and love this game if the last few issues get cleaned up. For someone with over 4000 posts (to me meaning you love War strategy) you seem to be very intolerant (even with all the time that has passed).

As, a BTW, I sure wish Santa would bring a patch from all of the folks at Matrix, CHS and AB to allow me to start playing again.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 43
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 3:09:09 AM   
rogueusmc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


As, a BTW, I sure wish Santa would bring a patch from all of the folks at Matrix, CHS and AB to allow me to start playing again.
If we ain't seen it yet, we prolly won't til after Christmas at least.

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Post #: 44
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 3:41:56 AM   
RevRick


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I played PacWar from 1994 on and spent too many hours playing - it kept me from graduating cum laude from seminary all by itself. WitP is much, much better. There are bugs, which occur in almost every computer program I have run, worked with, or on, since 1974. Some are not satisfied with anything less than perfection, and always seem to see the dark cloud within the most extensive silver lining. The game is what it is - flawed, to be sure, but not so much that it is not playable, IMO. The fact that it is the ONLY game out there which even makes an attempt to master this theater and time speaks volumes for the complexity of the topic, and the devotion of the creators. Like sin, everyone has their favorite flavor of flaw they wish would be changed, and will urinate and moan ad nauseum until it is done, or not done, and then they will continue the same. Me, I play the game. The fun is in the planning and logistics anyway - cartoons (& shooters) are for juveniles.

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Post #: 45
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 3:51:13 AM   
dereck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lt. Calley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whipple

So it comes down to this: If you could go back in time would you buy the game?

This might not be the best place to get a good answer to such a question, because the people with a low tolerance for bugs that have answered your question by already having given up on the game don't frequent this forum anymore. I bought the game at the end of August knowing that there still were bugs but I had faith based on the reputation of Matrix that they would soon be fixed. If I knew now what I knew then, I would not have bought it.

Here's a comment from someone who gave up on the game a long time ago and returned to see if it got any better:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ctid98


I've played WitP since the day it came out, UV before that and even way back to Steel Panthers I & II playing right through the wars. Didn't bother with SP III as it was just a poor hack of SP II that tried to part me from more of my hard earn cashed. I'd hoped that WitP wouldn't do the same on UV and I'm happy to say it hasn't as it offered so much more, BUT, I won't be buying another Matrix or Gary game again (not until this ones up to spec at least!).

When WitP came out, it was slow, oh so very slow, had bugs but there was the promise of patches. Patches to fix the bugs, patches to add player recommendations, patches that would make all other games irrelevant, but sadly the patches didn't fix the bugs, they seemed to only add others.

Now I don't mind the interface, I can work with it, but I'm sorry, after a year and a half since release and patches, 1.10, 1.20, 1.21 (I think???) 1.30, 1.40, 1.50, 1.60 we should have elimitated the basic stuff of paratroops disappearing, leaders disappearing, its not the Bermuda Triangle, its functions, packages, arrays and basic programming. Get to grips with it please!!!

I feel that a lot of the problems resulted from the testing and those who did it. Reading the background on a lot of the guys I got the impression that a lot had served in the forces (RESPECT!) and now spent a lot of their spare time on war games (yet more RESPECT, as it beats doing drugs). However being good at a game and playing it a lot does not qualify you as a tester. I could be wrong, they could all have qualified from MIT with flying colours in the field of War Game testing (now thats a course I wish I could have taken when I got my BSc!!!! ), but I don't think that is the case. Poor testing lead to poor feedback which lead to a poor game experience.

We now find ourselves many months down the road sick to the back teeth of bugs that never get fixed and not wanting to play the game any more. I haven't been on this forum for 6 months and hadn't looked at WitP for a similar amount of time because I was tired of waiting, last week I fired it up and what happened, I couldn't load a division fully even though I had all the ships and a bombardment TF sat in mid ocean for 4 turns never going in for the final move (poor leader or not you carry out your orders or do a spell in the glass house!!!). But I figured that as 6 months have passed they'll be a new patch that will have fixed all this and will make me want to spend hours scrolling around the Pacific again, but what do I find, a beta release that has issues.......

I don't like having a go at people, and certainly don't like having a go at WitP as it really is an enjoyable game, but only if it works and it doesn't.




ctid98 knocked the WitP testers a lot; unfairly in my opinion; and to be honest, I was a tester.

Testers caught quite a few bugs that I'm not even going to get into - that was our job. The two big ones (Leaders and Disappearing/Teleporting Units) did not evolve during testing while I was involved.

As to "Gameplay issues" like "Uber CAP" and "Uber ASW", etc., I can only say that when issues arose, we gave input and moved on to the next issue (ok, most of us). Our job was to identify repeatable bugs, test the corrections; all the while continuing to play normally while also tryng to break it.

Do I agree how some of the game works? No.

Is WitP broken? Not for me.

I do have issues with it. I’ve made my opinions known and that is that. I didn't code the game, and enough pissing and moaning has been done to power a small city for a year. I've opened the Editor and changed what I thought should have been done that isn’t hardwired code.

The game is sometimes a study in contradictions. If you’re easily pissed off, this game wouldn’t be for you even if it was perfect.


I knocked the testing in this game too which basically sucked. I am not talking about playtesters (which Admiral DadMan probably was) but PROGRAM testers. There's bugs in this game that never should have made it beyond the programming stage yet they are so imbedded in this game now it's not funny anymore.

You can't have people who are gamers test a piece of software and expect them to do as good a job as the programming team who programmed the code, had the specifications, AND the means to stress test the code to see if it broke. Just playing a game doesn't mean the bugs will be found.

Some people are satisfied with software with bugs that could have and should have been caughtbefore the game was released but others aren't as can be told from the threads here about this subject.

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Post #: 46
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 4:23:52 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

ctid98 knocked the WitP testers a lot; unfairly in my opinion; and to be honest, I was a tester.

Testers caught quite a few bugs that I'm not even going to get into - that was our job. The two big ones (Leaders and Disappearing/Teleporting Units) did not evolve during testing while I was involved.

As to "Gameplay issues" like "Uber CAP" and "Uber ASW", etc., I can only say that when issues arose, we gave input and moved on to the next issue (ok, most of us). Our job was to identify repeatable bugs, test the corrections; all the while continuing to play normally while also tryng to break it.

Do I agree how some of the game works? No.

Is WitP broken? Not for me.

I do have issues with it. I’ve made my opinions known and that is that. I didn't code the game, and enough pissing and moaning has been done to power a small city for a year. I've opened the Editor and changed what I thought should have been done that isn’t hardwired code.

The game is sometimes a study in contradictions. If you’re easily pissed off, this game wouldn’t be for you even if it was perfect.


ORIGINAL: dereck

I knocked the testing in this game too which basically sucked. I am not talking about playtesters (which Admiral DadMan probably was) but PROGRAM testers. There's bugs in this game that never should have made it beyond the programming stage yet they are so imbedded in this game now it's not funny anymore.

You can't have people who are gamers test a piece of software and expect them to do as good a job as the programming team who programmed the code, had the specifications, AND the means to stress test the code to see if it broke. Just playing a game doesn't mean the bugs will be found.

Some people are satisfied with software with bugs that could have and should have been caughtbefore the game was released but others aren't as can be told from the threads here about this subject.


As testers, not only were we looking for game play issues, but we were also trying to break the program - make it lock, freak, and CTD.

Hell, we could have gone another 6 months and found a lot more stuff before it was released, and Matrix/2by3 would have been criticized for slipping the release date. It was a no-win scenario.

Folks are pissing and moaning about paying for a beta. Would they rather have not had the game those 6 months that we could have used to hammer out the bugs? We'd still have "Uber CAP" and "Uber ASW", and maybe few more things.

At least we didn't get the "Stuck Continuous Supply TF" bug or the "Stuck Bombardment TF" bug like there was in UV.

Personally, I'd wish for some of the inconsistent micromangement taken out, or add some coherence to the micromangement

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(in reply to dereck)
Post #: 47
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 4:30:44 AM   
dereck


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The play testers were not professional IT testers and the end-result unfortunately speaks for itself. You can play the game and test it works but you CAN'T test the code like the programmers (whose job it was to test their programs before putting them up for playtesting) can.

And if I had known what I know now over a year ago, no I wouldn't have bought this game. I've decided that I am never going to buy another game that isn't being sold in a store in a mall. If it's made it into a mall then I'm pretty sure they have a good QA department.

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Post #: 48
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 4:43:02 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dereck

The play testers were not professional IT testers and the end-result unfortunately speaks for itself. You can play the game and test it works but you CAN'T test the code like the programmers (whose job it was to test their programs before putting them up for playtesting) can.

And if I had known what I know now over a year ago, no I wouldn't have bought this game. I've decided that I am never going to buy another game that isn't being sold in a store in a mall. If it's made it into a mall then I'm pretty sure they have a good QA department.

Enjoy the first person shooters then, becuase that's what you'll get. I guess I'm failing to see how "professional IT testers" would have done more than try to break the game.

I think the root of the problem for "bugs" (true bugs like leaders and units) comes from cuttiing and splicing WitP from UV.

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Post #: 49
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 5:21:43 AM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

quote:

what he said.....


Do you write speeches for a living ?


I've been known to write a novel or two.

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Post #: 50
RE: Differences between Pac War -v- WiTP? - 12/24/2005 7:53:45 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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If it's made it into a mall then I'm pretty sure they have a good QA department.



Wrong, that just means that the publisher has enough money to buy shelf space. Go into your local Gamespot and check out some of the losers they are selling as PC games. There are quite a few horrible games on their shelves...

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