B24's oh my (Full Version)

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freeboy -> B24's oh my (5/1/2005 6:55:13 PM)

is it just me or are the poeple seeing non us groups upgrading .. like a recent Canadian group, to b24's a a huge and potentially devastating early war, 43, that is, power change to the Allied forces? Iknow I will be seeing better Jap planes.. but I will be really hitting the mass air assualt formation rutines this game with p38's as escorts...
OR am I overreacting and this is not as unballancing as I think?




Brady -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 7:01:31 PM)


Ya I was just dinking around while waiting for a turn, and Noticed that it apears like many more B-24D units will be available early now since the upgarde paths are chusable for the allies, which I was not aware of, I did not know the allies got to pick and chuse as well.




Mr.Frag -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 7:47:11 PM)

quote:

I overreacting and this is not as unballancing as I think


The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go.




Halsey -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 7:52:47 PM)

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.[:D]




Rob322 -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 8:06:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady


Ya I was just dinking around while waiting for a turn, and Noticed that it apears like many more B-24D units will be available early now since the upgarde paths are chusable for the allies, which I was not aware of, I did not know the allies got to pick and chuse as well.


Ahhh they've been saying the Allies get too have as fun of the Japanese for months ...




Brady -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 8:11:05 PM)



"The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go"

Ahh, well sorta, Before Only one Unit (I beleave) could operate B-24's Early, well Before late 42 I think, now it would seam several can, unless I am missing someting.

..........

"What's good for the goose is good for the gander"

Ya, unless it is a Heaver bomload option, again showing one of those little Biased details[:)].

While I can sorta see why alowing the Japanese to pick their upgrade path is a good Idea, after all Japanese production is represented in the game and the Ecenomy abstracted, and the 1.4 upgrade paths were so Bad, that is so unhistoric anyway, this kinda made since, I am not shure Why the Allies nead this realy.





pmelheck1 -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 8:30:54 PM)

I've got a simple solution. We can have a setting that removes all those pesky rules like Japan not getting B-29's, not getting the same number of carriers and not getting the same quality planes. We can have an arcade mode so both side are balanced perfectly! that way the Japanese have a 50% chance to win, they can even nuke the united states with the nukes they get when the U.S. gets theirs. Heck we might even be able to get rid of that old turn based mode for real time. That way both sides of this debate should be happy. Those of us who look for historical accuracy can play in historical mode and those who want play balance can play in arcade mode. [:'(][8|]




Rob322 -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 8:32:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mullk

I've got a simple solution. We can have a setting that removes all those pesky rules like Japan not getting B-29's, not getting the same number of carriers and not getting the same quality planes. We can have an arcade mode so both side are balanced perfectly! that way the Japanese have a 50% chance to win, they can even nuke the united states with the nukes they get when the U.S. gets theirs. Heck we might even be able to get rid of that old turn based mode for real time. That way both sides of this debate should be happy. Those of us who look for historical accuracy can play in historical mode and those who want play balance can play in arcade mode. [:'(][8|]


They have a game out there like that already, it's called Risk.




rogueusmc -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 9:28:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady


Ya I was just dinking around while waiting for a turn, and Noticed that it apears like many more B-24D units will be available early now since the upgarde paths are chusable for the allies, which I was not aware of, I did not know the allies got to pick and chuse as well.

So you thought the optional upgrade paths were for Japanese player only?...what about all the hubbub about all of the game tweaks being pro allies?...[:D]




Herrbear -> RE: B24's oh my (5/1/2005 9:41:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady



"The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go"

Ahh, well sorta, Before Only one Unit (I beleave) could operate B-24's Early, well Before late 42 I think, now it would seam several can, unless I am missing someting.


It does mean that you can distribute them to other squadrons earlier assuming the numbers are in the pool. If the numbers aren't there then you can't. There is no increase in the amount of B-24 entering the game. For example, B-17D Sqd A would upgrade to B-17E. Now, if there are sufficient B-24 in the pool Sqd A could re-equipt with the B-24 rather than the B-17E. What happens to the B-24 squadron that was scheduled to arrive later and no B-24 in the pool? Now that squadron, IIRC, arrives with only a few B-24 and sits until the pool fills or you could equipt it with the older B-17D now that that pool has increased due to the earlier trade. You have not really gained more B-24.




doktorblood -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 12:06:57 AM)

Balderdash! Everbody knows that the pink blocks in RISK! are inferior to all the others.




Brady -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 2:48:56 AM)



"You have not really gained more B-24"

Yes I understand that, but becuse you will be alowed to upgrade earler, and outside the predesignated pathway you will in efect have scades more in service than you would of pre 1.5, for the same time frame, instead of these planes sittting in the pool they will out bombing.

Honestly I just asumed that the Japanese were the only side to be alowed to manapulate their upgrade path, so i did not pay a lot of atention to the posts on it, I could not for the life of me see why they would alow the Allies to do so, after all their production is not realy player controled, and they have such huge advanatges it would seam a non isue for them, alowing them to do so in efect, to a point, negates any ballancing efect the Japanese may of gained from being able to designate which units receaved which plane type.





freeboy -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 2:59:31 AM)

[X(][X(][X(]Frag's
quote:

The number of B-24's entering the game is exactly the same as before, you just have a little more control where they go.

Frag, I think you missed this one intirely.. if I have three 24 units.. they will "host" their limit of planes regardless of the numbers produced.. as in my soon to end pbem game where I have thousands of planes unused in the pools...

So now, INSTEAD of that number of air units, I now will probably double the usable air units to 24's.. so in effect have twice the number of plays FLYING, after all who really cares about the beasts parked in the States??? I shocked that so many planes will be available, and then on to 29's, makes the air war pilot repleneshment issues criticle, as the side with the best fighter jocks cleans up.. and for japan is they lose this lead they lose PERIOD![X(][X(][X(]




hithere -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 4:53:35 AM)

the thing is, this game should not be balanced in the way Risk is. in WW2, there is nothing,...nothing that Japan could have done to acually win that war on the battlefield. there is a reason why Japan lost...it is not that Japan had a very bad plan (militarily), it is that they were out produced and out designed and out intelligenced and populated and out everything'd.

the reason they lasted as long as they did is a tribute to the soldiers dedication to their country. (not that the allies didn't have that, but they were winning)

i have brought this up in the past and some people got upset. i do not mean to upset anyone but i thing that a good comparison is the American Civil War. in the beginning the south won alot of victorys due alot to the determination of the soldiers and commanders. but they could not keep up with a enemy that ended up being equally determined and had the industrial might of the north behind them.

after all, 10 men with swords can not hold off 100 men with wiffal bats, especially if the wiffal bats are upgraded to machine guns




pasternakski -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 6:44:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
after all, 10 men with swords can not hold off 100 men with wiffal bats


I dunno. Set up a match. Can I watch?




freeboy -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:10:14 AM)

I geuss we wil lsimply have to watch the punch counter punch.. Z tells me he has a new strategy?? We will see, I just think all those heavies are going to be if not wasted by over ambitious plans awefully difficult to slow down[X(]




hithere -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:15:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
after all, 10 men with swords can not hold off 100 men with wiffal bats


I dunno. Set up a match. Can I watch?


i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"




freeboy -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:20:13 AM)

quote:

i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


lmao
in a pool on inflatable toys




pasternakski -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:22:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


Or "The proud ... the few ... the wifflewhackers."




rtrapasso -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:22:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

quote:

i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


lmao
in a pool on inflatable toys


Inflatable pink sheep.

Mr. Frag will host the show.




freeboy -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:26:24 AM)

I would pay good money, is there any other kind?, too seee the Frag and pony.. er I mean sheep show, combined with swords and wiffle ball bats...




hithere -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:28:24 AM)

Hey wiffle bats are no joke, my 45 lb daughter totally incapacitated her 6'1" 210 pound dad for about 15 min




rtrapasso -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:35:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere

Hey wiffle bats are no joke, my 45 lb daughter totally incapacitated her 6'1" 210 pound dad for about 15 min


I hesistate to ask where she hit you...[X(]




hithere -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 7:38:47 AM)

[sm=00000506.gif]




Charles2222 -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 8:18:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


Or "The proud ... the few ... the wifflewhackers."


Nah, the few would be the ones with swords.




Charles2222 -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 8:19:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere

Hey wiffle bats are no joke, my 45 lb daughter totally incapacitated her 6'1" 210 pound dad for about 15 min


I hesistate to ask where she hit you...[X(]


I'm guessing somewhere below the mouth.




Tankerace -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 8:19:53 AM)

I actually sort of like the upgrading for the Allies. War in the Pacific was never meant to be balanced, it was meant to be psuedo accurate.

The main reason I like it is because historically, several units in the PTO were outfitted with one plane, but due to shortages had to go to another type of plane. Don't remember the squadron, but in 1943 there was a unit of P-38Gs. However, because there was a shortage of P-38s, and an overabundance of P-47s, the unit converted out of necessity. Pre 1.5, that wouldn't be represented. However, post 1.5 it is possible. Yes, the Allied production is fixed. But if you have a shortage of one plane, or an abundance of another, why should we not be able to switch?

In pre 1.5 WiTP, by 1945 the Allies would have several groups stuck at just P-40s. At that late in the game, why can't the player decide to re-equip them with longer range planes? Its not biased, its a new dimension to the game. Granted, I do think there should be some limits to it, but otherwise its ok by me.




freeboy -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 8:39:40 AM)

quote:

actually sort of like the upgrading for the Allies. War in the Pacific was never meant to be balanced, it was meant to be psuedo accurate.

The main reason I like it is because historically, several units in the PTO were outfitted with one plane, but due to shortages had to go to another type of plane. Don't remember the squadron, but in 1943 there was a unit of P-38Gs. However, because there was a shortage of P-38s, and an overabundance of P-47s, the unit converted out of necessity. Pre 1.5, that wouldn't be represented. However, post 1.5 it is possible. Yes, the Allied production is fixed. But if you have a shortage of one plane, or an abundance of another, why should we not be able to switch?


I aggree in part, I think player should be able to choose what parts to play historically or not... My biggest issue is that this will unballance an allready far from balance pbem game system .. do to to rapid advance.. supplies etc





Brady -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 10:08:48 AM)



"do to to rapid advance.. supplies etc "

I agree compleatly, espichaly with the later part, I have some TF just sitting ready laden with suplys, since I have so much at most bases I am more in fear of loss from over suply, than from enemy action, that is in my Allied game's.




pasternakski -> RE: B24's oh my (5/2/2005 10:57:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere
i think it is a new reality series...they are going to call it "10 men with swords trying to hold off 100 men with wiffal bats"


Or "The proud ... the few ... the wifflewhackers."


Nah, the few would be the ones with swords.


That's what I'm saying, Charles, the few are whacking the wifflers.




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