List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (Full Version)

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FDRLincoln -> List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (12/12/2004 6:25:23 AM)

The purpose of this mod is to give the Japanese player as many shipbuilding options as possible, to try and recreate the same set of decisions that Japanese planners faced early in the war. What hulls do we proceed on? How short of materials will be be? Do we need more carriers? Cruisers? Destroyers?

I have put it in slot 101 on my computer, and will call it the Japanese Ship Programme Scenario. I did this for my personal use, but if anyone wants it I can send it along once I test it. Post here if you are interested.

WitP has some aspects of this with the ability to accellerate or halt ships on the stocks. But I wanted to enhance this by adding additional choices for the Japanese player. My starting point was Tanaka's scenario 32 mod, since I like what he did with the aircraft upgrade paths. Here is a list of the ships I have added, the class of ship, and the date available. Note that each ship is built to the current refit specifications on the relevant class.

BB Tosa, Yamato class, available March 15, 1945
CV Karyu (Fire Dragon), Taiho class, available December 15, 1944
CV Kashu (Fire Eagle), Taiho class, available March 1, 1945
CA Tsushima, Mogami class, available August 22, 1944
CA Ishikari, Mogami class, available May 2, 1945
CL Niyodo, Oyodo class, available June 1, 1944
CL Teshio, Oyodo class, available November 11, 1944
CL Tokashi, Oyodo class, available May 6, 1945
CL Kashawari, K-training cruiser class, available December 14, 1942
ML Takasago, Tsuragu class, available February 9, 1944
DD Umigiri, Yugumo class, available August 17, 1944
DD Yamagiri, Yugumo class, available October 18, 1944
DD Tanigiri, Yugumo class, available December 15, 1944
DD Tawagiri, Yugumo class, available February 21, 1945
DD Taekazi, Yugumo class, available April 5, 1945
DD Mochitsuki, Akitsuki class, availableJ une 8, 1945
DD Kihotsuki, Akitsuki class, available August 8, 1945
DD Otsuki, Akitsuki class, available September 27, 1945

Tosa is the ship known as No. 111. I named her Tosa, which was the scrapped sister to Kaga.
Karyu and Kashu I named myself in English, then translated into Japanese with help from a Japanese friend who assures me of the translation accuracy.
One cruiser is named for the Battle of Tsushima, the rest rivers. Kashawari was cancelled and broken up on the slip after Pearl Harbor in real life.
The destroyers are given names of ships cancelled due to war shortages in real life.

Note that this mod will require very active ship management on the part of the Japanese player. The bigger hulls (Tosa, the carriers) will draw resources at the beginning of the game, so the Japanese player must make decisions about what he wants to build and what he wants to cancel. The point is to give the Japanese player as many options as faced the planners in real life. If the Japanese player can drag the game out far enough, some of these ships could actually see service. But try to bite off too much, and you'll end up dragging yourself down. At least that is the idea.

The scenario will also include a few additional allied ships, but I'm not that far yet.




FDRLincoln -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (12/14/2004 6:26:23 AM)

Also added the Japanese armed survey ship Tsukushi, which is fairly well armed, carries an aircraft, and can be a useful scout as she was actually used in real life.




kokubokan25 -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (12/14/2004 8:26:44 PM)

May be you can added the C-44 light cruiser type. Unofficial designed as Improved Agano's and cancelled in 1942. The number proyected was 6 fast light cruisers to act as flagships to destroyer flotillas.

Displacement: 9.670 tons.
Speed: Prev.37 knots.
Armament: Proyected 8 x 15 cm 50 cal (four turrets, 2-2), 8 x 8 cm AA, 9 x 25mm AA, 8 torpedo tubes 21" (16 torpedoes).
Armour: Proyected 60mm sides, 20mm deck.




FDRLincoln -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (12/15/2004 9:38:21 PM)

Two allied ships added for my amusement.

British Cruiser-Minelayer Adventure. This ship did not serve in the Pacific, but is a "cool" ship that is neat to have but won't have a serious effect on game balance. Begins game in port in Trimcomalee.

British seaplane carrier Albatross. This was originally an Australian ship that was sold to the RN in 1938 as partial payment for the transfer of the light cruiser Hobart. I haven't been able to find her service records, but like Adventure she is a "neat" ship that I want to experiment with. Begins game in Darwin, under the assumption that her transfer was only "on paper" and that she stayed in the Pacific in this reality. She comes equipped with 9 Walrus aircraft and would be useful for scouting purposes.

Upcoming: minelayer Abdiel, which did serve in the Pacific, plus a few additional destroyers and escorts to help the British player with the whole "I have no destroyers to transfer" problem. There won't be many additions, just a few. The allies have advantages enough.

I have decided not to include Midway, as the allies will have plenty of carriers even if the game goes past August 1945 and the Japanese player actually manages to get a few extra hulls in the water. I will add a few extra Gearing class destroyers however.




norsemanjs -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (1/28/2005 2:53:18 AM)

I have tried to do something similar but have had trouble. What happens is the ship is scheduled to be available on a specific date. The days to arrival drop like normal but once it gets to 1 day it stays there and the ship does not arrive.

I'm using an existing class have simply added an additional ship. I have the ship showing up at Tokyo.

Any idea what I could have screwed up?




Ron Saueracker -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (1/28/2005 10:59:14 AM)

quote:

BB Tosa, Yamato class, available March 15, 1945
CV Karyu (Fire Dragon), Taiho class, available December 15, 1944
CV Kashu (Fire Eagle), Taiho class, available March 1, 1945
CA Tsushima, Mogami class, available August 22, 1944
CA Ishikari, Mogami class, available May 2, 1945
CL Niyodo, Oyodo class, available June 1, 1944
CL Teshio, Oyodo class, available November 11, 1944
CL Tokashi, Oyodo class, available May 6, 1945
CL Kashawari, K-training cruiser class, available December 14, 1942
ML Takasago, Tsuragu class, available February 9, 1944
DD Umigiri, Yugumo class, available August 17, 1944
DD Yamagiri, Yugumo class, available October 18, 1944
DD Tanigiri, Yugumo class, available December 15, 1944
DD Tawagiri, Yugumo class, available February 21, 1945
DD Taekazi, Yugumo class, available April 5, 1945
DD Mochitsuki, Akitsuki class, availableJ une 8, 1945
DD Kihotsuki, Akitsuki class, available August 8, 1945
DD Otsuki, Akitsuki class, available September 27, 1945

VS

Two allied ships added for my amusement.

British Cruiser-Minelayer Adventure. This ship did not serve in the Pacific, but is a "cool" ship that is neat to have but won't have a serious effect on game balance. Begins game in port in Trimcomalee.

British seaplane carrier Albatross. This was originally an Australian ship that was sold to the RN in 1938 as partial payment for the transfer of the light cruiser Hobart. I haven't been able to find her service records, but like Adventure she is a "neat" ship that I want to experiment with. Begins game in Darwin, under the assumption that her transfer was only "on paper" and that she stayed in the Pacific in this reality. She comes equipped with 9 Walrus aircraft and would be useful for scouting purposes.

Upcoming: minelayer Abdiel, which did serve in the Pacific, plus a few additional destroyers and escorts to help the British player with the whole "I have no destroyers to transfer" problem. There won't be many additions, just a few. The allies have advantages enough.

I have decided not to include Midway, as the allies will have plenty of carriers even if the game goes past August 1945 and the Japanese player actually manages to get a few extra hulls in the water. I will add a few extra Gearing class destroyers however.


Bit of of Japanese fanboy are you? Lots of assumptions made surrounding a lack of Allied shipbuilding etc.




mlees -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (1/28/2005 5:51:38 PM)

quote:

I have decided not to include Midway, as the allies will have plenty of carriers even if the game goes past August 1945 and the Japanese player actually manages to get a few extra hulls in the water. I will add a few extra Gearing class destroyers however.


Careful, your bias is showing![:D]

Seriously, the Japanese experienced a severe steel shortage during the war. It was so bad, they resorted to using wood as a building material. (Wood ships are restricted to a max size of 500-700 tons.)

I ask, with respect, why is it your opinion that the Americans don't deserve or need more flattops?

If the Japanese player is doing so well that he is able to build all the extra stuff you have on your list, then chances are the Allies are being severely spanked, and actually do need those extra cv's...




Tankerace -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (1/28/2005 6:23:15 PM)

I agree, if you actually want people to play your scenario, you have to make it quasi fair. If you are going completely ahistorical with Japan (not even going to consider reality), the least you can do is go historical with the Allies.

Still, great job though. Nothing I like better as an allied fanboy than more targets of opporotunity! [:D]




Jo van der Pluym -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (1/29/2005 6:45:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FDRLincoln
British seaplane carrier Albatross. This was originally an Australian ship that was sold to the RN in 1938 as partial payment for the transfer of the light cruiser Hobart. I haven't been able to find her service records, but like Adventure she is a "neat" ship that I want to experiment with. Begins game in Darwin, under the assumption that her transfer was only "on paper" and that she stayed in the Pacific in this reality. She comes equipped with 9 Walrus aircraft and would be useful for scouting purposes.


Here is the history of the Albatross

Commissioned as a seaplane carrier in the Royal Australian Navy on 23 January 1929.
Transferred to the Royal Navy in 1938, being recommissioned for the voyage to the UK on 19 April 1938. Commissioned in Royal Navy service as HMS Albatross (I22) on 29 September 1938, she served as a trials ship. Decommissioned to reserve on 15 December 1938 and used as an accommodations ship until recommissioned on 25 August 1939. She operated as a trade protection ship off West Africa and in the Indian Ocean. Decommissioned to reserve on 5 November 1943 and converted to a repair ship for escorts and minesweepers and recommissioned as such on 17 April 1944 rearmed with eight 2pdr AA and six 20mm AA. Torpedoed on 11 August 1944 and judged not worth repairing. Placed in reserve on 30 August 1944 but recommissioned as a minesweeper depot hulk in November 1944. Finally decomissioned into reserve for disposal in July 1945. Sold in 1946. Scrapped at Hong Kong starting on 12 August 1954




Philbass -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (1/30/2005 8:23:12 PM)

And for those that are interested here is some more on the Albatross:

As ALBATROSS was not fitted with a catapult until 1936 and then had been in reserve since April 1933 , her performance with aircraft fell below her design capabilities throughout almost the whole of her RAN service, for shortly after recommissioning in April 1938 she was transferred to the Royal Navy in part payment for HMAS HOBART. At that time, the Chief of the Naval Staff, Vice Admiral Sir Ragnar Colvin. described her with understatement as 'not of great value' to the RAN. By then the cruisers has been fitted with amphibians.

Another of her 'grave deficiences' was her speed. Intended to operate as the eyes of cruisers capable of sustaining over 34 knots, her maximum speed was only 22 knots, and as we have seen, to launch and recover aircraft she had to reduce to 3 knots. A description of the favoured recovery technique, the so-called slick method, will indicate the effect of recovery on her speed of advance, In the slick method, the recovery vessel turned head to wind immediately before the aircraft touched down and made a relatively calm patch of water in her lee by swinging her stern towards the wind and away from the point at which the aircraft was about to land. The landing run was about to land. The landing run was completed fairly close to the ship about amidships onthe leeside. The time from touch down to being hoisted clear off the water could be reduced to about 1 1/2 minutes by this method...

...During the first two years of the war the Royal Air Force was unable to provide reconnaissance of the Freetown, Sierra Leone, focal area. The ALBATROSS, equipped with Walrus aircraft, was stationed there, initially to watch for surface raiders, but the principle value of her aircraft ultimately proved to be in their anti-submarine work, where they reduced the dislocation and losses consequent upon the southwards extension of U-boat operations. Later in the war, ALBATROSS served as a repair ship during the Normandy landings.


Source: HMAS Albatross in Stevens, David (ed) [1998] Australian Carrier Decisions: The acquisition of HMA Ships Albatross, Sydney and Melbourne (Canberra; Defence Publications and Visual Communications)




FDRLincoln -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (2/2/2005 6:50:57 PM)

I didn't mean to come across as a big Japanese fanboy. I got distracted with some real life things for a month and haven't had time to work on the mod. Adding the Midway and some additional allied ships can certainly be done.




FDRLincoln -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (2/3/2005 12:35:37 AM)

After looking at the historical ship thread under construction, I may drop my mod altogether.




Bradley7735 -> RE: List of Ships in my Japanese Shipbuilding Mod (2/3/2005 12:58:34 AM)

If you have resources and time, you could always help those guys who are making it. The more brains involved, the better.

But, there's no reason for you to stop your mod. Theirs is mainly focusing on extreme historic accuracy. Other's have made some that give advantages or options to the japanese. There's no reason you couldn't do the same.




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