Tanks ! (Full Version)

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Denniss -> Tanks ! (9/9/2004 8:31:44 PM)

There's a 1944 model Panther-G with improved armor .
We should include a Panther-G available 3/44 with +1 armor compared to standard Panther

Upgrade Nashorn armor to 4
Reduce Marder-III armor by one to 4
Reduce Stug-IIIf attack by one - many of them should had the 75L43 gun
-> About 40% of them got the 75L48 gun so StuG-IIIg should be available in 10/42
Reduce Pz-IVg attack by one - most of them had the 75L43 gun
-> About 20% of them got the 75L48 gun so Pz-IVh should arrive 1/1943

In relation to Jagdtiger some tanks should get more armor rating :
Panther/Tiger +1
Koenigstiger +2
JS-I +2
Su85 +1
Jagdpanther +1
All StuG +1 - very small but fast tanks very good to hide
Hetzer + 1 - see above
Su-122/152 +1

Reduce Su-76 armor to 4 - somehow comparable design to Marder

Reduce JS-III armor by one point - Koenigs Tiger is able to kill him

JS-II/III should have attack rating of 20 - capable of killing Koenigstiger at shorter ranges
JSU-122 uses same gun but -1 = 19 as TD without turret
T34 should have 10->11->12 armor
T34/76 as well as KV1/1S should get +1 attack
-> 76mm gun is better than the short 5cm/L42 but poor optics set it on par with it (original T34/76)
T34/85 + KV-85 + JS1 should get +1 attack - the 85mm gun was better than 75L48 but poor optics set it on par with it

Comparing to Pz-IVh Panther/Tiger and JpzIV-70 are underrated in attack - +1 for them

All Pz-III tanks should get +1 armor
-> Pz-IIIm armour was a little less then Pz-IVg but not enough to have one point less

Czech 38t and Pz-IIIf should have attack rating reduced to 6 - the 37mm gun was not as good as it looks like with rating 7
Pz-IIIh should have the same armor rating as Pz-IIIj - some areas more some areas less but somehow equal overall

T28 should have armor rating of 6 representing the later-built models

Attached file : OBWIR file with 1941 scenario - modded with most updates listet here
-> Right-click and Save Link As then rename to OBWIR.ZIP and decompress the file to your WIR directory (backup old OBWIR file needed !!) and start a new 1941 campaign .
It's far away of having all included but it may show up some changes/suggestions

You'll need GEdit to have a closer look on all stats/units/cities/factories

JagdFlanker -> RE: Tanks ! (9/12/2004 12:09:00 AM)

alright, i'll check it oot!!

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/12/2004 1:26:54 PM)

Some small errors found :
Ju87B combat rang is 200 miles giving range 10
Ju87B bomb load is either 1x250Kg + 4x50Kg or 1x500Kg not 1x500+4x50 = 500Kg = 7.7 = 8

MC.202 used wrong graphics - changed it to gfx 22

Pz-IV d/e have Armor increased by one - Pz-Iv usually had more armor than Pz-III of the same timeline
-> Pz-IVf had only small improvements over the Pz-IVe not worth a point

[Note :]
Attachment replaced by a second version including Pz-IV d/e changes

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/13/2004 4:22:52 PM)

Additional problems found :
Mc.202 is selectable for production but not possible to change back - it seems Slot62 is the problem here so I'll move this plane to another locked plane slot .
M13/40 and M15/42 are selectable for production as well - I'll find something here,too .

Having old tanks/planes without upgrade path is not good - in a small 1941 test game until late 1942 the russian player (with Auto Fac/Equip control still has absolete tanks in units and thousands of T34/KV in pool
-> Do17Z to Do217
-> Mig1 should get an upgrade path - maybe to P39 as russia gets a lot of them by Lend Lease
-> I15/I16 seem to be hardcoded to plane slots 26-32 (Mig3/LaGG3/Yak1-3-9D/La5-7) depending on plane availability
-> T37>T60 + T35>KV1 + T26/T28/BT5/BT7 -> T34
-> PzJg-Ib->MarderII (have not seen autoupgrade working on them) + Nashorn->Jagdpanther + Elefant->Jagdtiger
-> Pz-IIIf/g/h/R35-S35/38T(a)->Pz-IIIj-60 + Pz-IVd/e->IVg(they may get replaced by IIIj-42 with auto equip)

Additional suggestion : Combine Pz-IIIh and j-42 to Pz-IIIh/j42 (more or less the same tank data - one has more armor on hull the other on turret) and use the previous J42 slot for J60 tank

Some bombers should get a small upgrade in Dogfight/Maneuver - they are too easily shot down even by obsolete fighters.
-> Do17Z(10)/He111H(12)/Ju88(14)/Do217(17)/He177(19) maybe Ju87B/D/G and Hs129 (8-10-8-12)
-> Il2M3(17)/IL10(21)/Pe2(18)/B24(19//A20(20)/IL4(12)/B25(16)

Rename the previously renamed P47D back to P47 (it's the russian-used P47) and change dogfight/maneuver back to 23 .
Rename the P47 (USAAF use) to P47C
Rename the P51 to P51D and delay to 1/1944 (plane slot 195 has to be adjusted with arrival date)

Some air combat test show the P38 and P47 now are a better match for Fw190A (hard fight) .
Newer russian planes like Yak1-M/La5 now dogfight better and Me-109F gets some small problems againts more experienced units

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/14/2004 12:37:55 AM)

Some updates done but mostly planes shuffled/changed/sorted :
KG-100/He177 arrival delayed to He177 availability
Mix2 fighter both factories reduced to 7 - always short on engines so production was not as big
MC.202 moved to a different slot so it's not selectable for production
Re-established Ju87G->Fw190F upgrade to prevent factories from producing Ju87G while units had upgraded to Fw190F (hardcoded upgrade)
Me410 got +2 durability - better durability compared to Me110
Ju52 renamed to Ju52/3M and added 3 cannon points (13mm+7.92mm MG)
JV44 changed to arrive with 90 experience and 100 planes - Expert group with Luftwaffe Aces

BT5 upgradepath changed from T34 to Valentine - to use all these tanks arriving in Murmansk/Archangelsk

I am still thinking about upgradepaths for some older german tanks - I have seen R35 replaced by Pz-IVf and Pz-IVd/e by Pz-IIIj-42 without this special path - looks like some hardcoded "if enough tanks are available of tanks in slot x or y then let's replace old tanks from slot a or b with them"

JagdFlanker -> RE: Tanks ! (9/14/2004 3:34:25 AM)

well, i'v started to completely redo the mod from scratch again - should take a couple weeks, but i want to restart to ensure i change as little of the 3.3 database as possible and just cut and paste stuff in instead of moving it around like before.

i'v converted the new map to the database already - it is modified from the one above so i will try to post it soon so you can see how it looks. i did add the finnish railway up north, as i figured finnish rail doesn't advance until leningrad is taken anyways.

deniss, love the new aircraft stats! i'v only looked into 1 thing so far - the Fw 190 path, and i have a few questions/comments:
i don't feel that the 190a5 is a signifigant enough of an upgrade to warrant a whole new aircraft. i would prefer to make the fw 190A with the a5 stats and keep it going until the a8 comes in to keep everything as simple as possible. also i found out there should not be any Fw 190's in the pool at the start of the game!! a question popped up while i was looking into this - it seems at least many and perhaps most of the a8's were built/converted into bomber killers with better armament and more armour - but this weight increase perhaps translated into worse manouverability than the a5 according to several sources. since your a8 stats increase the cannon but also increase the manouverability and keep the durability the same, is this the pure fighter? i havn't looked deeply into it, but was curious to your response.

i like the new Me 109 stats - can the 109G have a higher cannon to differentiate it more from the 109F? did any signifigant model before the G6 have a higher cannon rating, just as an excuse to add some cannon?

i 'remembered' yesterday that it is not a good idea to change aircraft type 2's to type 4's and vice-versa -> at the start of the sov game you start with a lot of SB-2 wings and only a few Pe-2/Il-2 wings. if all the SB-2 wings are type 4, then you can only manually upgrade to the Il-4 and you would never be able to fill them with so little Il-4 production!! same goes the other way - you will have very few Il-2/Pe-2 wings and a masive pool building up! i have to turn auto equip upgrade OFF as soviets myself when i play so this would leave me in a big bind! on turn 1 in my mod two or so Il-4 wings auto-upgrade to SB-2, and once they convert to the type 2 i can no longer put Il-4's in!

now that i think of it, i just may be able to have the game start with no auto equip upgrades but still have factory upgrade - if so then the player may turn on equip upgrade manually if they choose.

as far as the afv modifications i will look into them but believe me, my final stats are quite different from the raw data i have on paper and i had already taken into account many of your suggestions with my current stats! the readme doesn't have them all, but at least most of my afv considerations. but i will investigate because you mentioned it...

note new afv's are unfortunatly not possible, and an extra version of the panther opens up the can of worms of (for example) KV-1 M39, KV-1E M40, KV-1E M41, and many more we could come up with!

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/14/2004 5:11:41 AM)

Fw190A8 bomber killer are some special ones using special armor and weapon kits - standard A8 model is the fighter but with bigger machinguns as previous version .
The machineguns started to appear in the small number series A7 end 1943
There should be no Fw190 pool - AFAIK A1 production started in June 1941
I took the A5 as it was equipped with a 150PS more powerful engine (started with A3 early 1942 but I thought this period was too short so I selected the A5)
-> It's an improvement as the Yak1M or LA5FN for the russians

Me109F had 15mm cannon and two small MG - many Me109G (and late 109F) only changed the 15mm to 20mm .
The first Me-109 starting to use 30mm+2x13mm are the G5/G6 series (G5 with pressurized cockpit - only difference from G6)

With the SB2 i have to agree to your comments - just too many units .
But the russians should have level bombers so let SB2 upgrade to IL2 but Su2 to IL4 (2 or 3 units only) .
A20/B25/Tu2 should stay level bombers especially Tu2 as direct upgrade path for IL4

The Panther in this game has the stats of the early 1943 model(D) - at least in 1944 (G - another model A in mid1943 not counted) some modifications were made including thicker armor and other improvements so a new version with upgraded stats are needed - as comparison the Tiger-I was only modified in small areas not affecting the stats

The KV85 and the KV2 shoud at least get +1 armor - KV2 has roughly the same as KV1S but KV85 has more
JS1/2 have the same armor - just an upgun mod -> both 17 or only a +1 difference

Do not alter the Equip upgrade - each human player will deactivate this anyway

I'll continue to work with my special mod to see how to shuffle some plane types/slots around and the effect from this - hopefully without problems . Maybe there are some hardcoded upgrade paths to be found ....

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/14/2004 4:26:19 PM)

Additional updates on my testmod :
Fw190f delayed to 7/43
Ju87G now 12/42 and Hs129 now 11/42
Time for Ju87G units was just too short before Fw190f upgrades happened
SG units with Ju87G/Hs129 arrive earlier now between turn 75 and 90 - one Fw190f equipped swapped to HS129 and all other Fw190f to Ju87G
In replacement pool you now see all Me-109/Fw190/Ju87 grouped - Me109 first then Fw190 and Ju87

Now trying to group some russian planes especially LaGG/La and early Yaks

Edit #1 :
Suggestions :
TB3 should get an upgrade path to a new C47(lend lease)/Li2 plane (license built C47) + a new arriving factory located east of Moscow or in Murmansk
There should be a tank production factory in Hannover to represent Maschinenweke Niedersachsen-Hannover MINH and MIAG in Braunschweig/Brunswick

JagdFlanker -> RE: Tanks ! (9/15/2004 4:03:50 AM)

i included all the tools with the mod download so everyone has everything they need to play with the database, and it's great to see yer going to town and having fun with it! so i say if you have a vision of more units and such then keep going and make your version of the mod with lots more unit detail - add what YOU think is important! i'm trying to keep it as close to 3.3 as possible myself, and there's no point in me dictating what should and shouldn't be in and ruining your fun so keep going and have fun with it!! don't mind me, i'll just sneak in and steal yer aircraft stats...(hee hee![;)])

JagdFlanker -> RE: Tanks ! (9/15/2004 5:01:40 AM)

ok, how's aboot this deal - if the Me 109G's MVR was raised to 24 to differentiate it more from the 109F, how would the aircraft around it be different? can all other aircraft with MVR 23 and above simply get +1 to compensate?

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/15/2004 4:08:40 PM)

If the 109G gets 24 mvr/dogfight then it's too good compared with 20+MVr enemy/frienly planes and it gets better against B17/B24 .
With my plane data and arrival times I tried to balance the power on both sides at their time of use .

If you need soe ideas with maps and/or unit improvements then have a look at the Posum Mod - good map but too many planes/tanks .
-> Some good Infos in the readme/changes about upgrading some units/korps to motorized units
And all planes are changed back to use bomb load in lbs (that's the game works with) so I'm thinking of changing my stats back to lbs - at least the transports should get lbs load to be even more important (in early games I switched Ju52 to Fw190 at start and back to Ju52 in 1942).

It seems plane slot#22 is Italian-locked,too that gives 17/18/20/21/22/62/63 as locked slots with a small bug (slot#62 selectable for production) .
I changed Me1^10 bomb load back to 15 - 110C was a fighter or FB with 500Kg bomb load and only some later D/E or F models have been able to load 1.5t or even up to 2t so average is 1t
Me410 should upgrade to Me262 as many units did so .

JagdFlanker -> New Map (9/17/2004 5:48:09 AM)

allright - here's the new map so far. i'm trying to to keep it similer to the regular one and i think i made it a little harder for germany to get to moscow without changing much. the voronezh-rostov addition should add a little action in '42 especially, and the '42 scen in particular. i only really changed rail in russia since i'm concentrating on '41 right now, but perhaps later i'll do more research about the rest of the rail networks in the game. adding more population to the russian side will help them with deploying extra defensive troops to the northern finnish rail and the crimean battle, since i think they are already pretty thin troop-wise.

note that i used wir assistant to do the map and i think it has some river hexes backwards or upside-down...

i'm sorry to say that the possum map, in my opinion, is too crazy for my taste. since the original map does a pretty good job of following historical rails, i think it only needs slight adjustments for game-play purposes.

i would prefer if nothing upgraded to the Me-262 so if you change production to it you can't cheat - i want you to have to wait the 4 weeks! too bad the game wasn't hard-coded to force any changed factories to start at 1 again -
that would make changing factories a MAJOR decision!


JagdFlanker -> RE: New Map (9/18/2004 3:00:35 AM)

so i figure i'l make sevastopol have much of the extra new inf (100 population) just to to encourage a fight all the way down the crimean peninsula instead of the soviet player defending the narrow peninsula to the caucasus to use less troops. might as well add a game within the game! i'll get rid of the extra town (kerch) because that's too easy to defend too.

Denniss -> RE: New Map (9/18/2004 3:18:38 AM)

Hmmm - never heard of the russian side being low on infantry troops .
At the beginning new or rebuilt russian divs usually had a lot of infantry but nearly no artillery

Production change and foctory set back to one is nonsense - that's what the production cost are there for .

The Me410 to Me262 upgradepath is historical correct as many units upgrade to Me262 or to 109/190 . And it's neded or the computer will produce Me410 forever .
But maybe it should be changed to ME109K4 or Fw190D9

JagdFlanker -> RE: New Map (9/18/2004 5:14:12 PM)

wow - it's only in the last week that i'm really starting to notice that it seems most people would rather do what they want with the factories instead of following a generally historical production with a little personal tweaking. i have no problem with that at all myself, seeing that production changing is one of my favorite parts of the game! but i guess the reason i was putting all the effort into penalizing factory changing was that i added 20-25% more factories for both sides to allow the possibility of getting bigger production runs of more different units. but i guess that sucks the fun out of the game somewhat so mabe i'll just reduce the amount of factories back closer to the original amount and to allow for more 'fun factor'.

jeez, i must be a little slow, because i think i just clued in that vehicle upgrading may not be hard coded, but go with the database upgrade order as you may have hinted previously. i didn't want any pre-6/22/41 vehicles to upgrade to anything to force the soviets to wait the 12 weeks on the factory railing, but mabe that will not be possible - i'll check into that today...

JagdFlanker -> RE: New Map (9/18/2004 9:39:43 PM)

so after getting used to the idea i might as well keep all the Fw 190 upgrades as you presented since each model gets a year of production, so i guess it can't hurt. i'll just use all your aircraft stats unquestioned for now and see how it all works out! can you post your latest obwir so i can cut and paste it accross? thanks!

i was wondering - mixed1 and mixed2 fighters looks a little aukward, so can we perhaps change them to 'Italian Fighters' and 'Axis Fighters' to represent the mixed fighters of italy and the mixed fighter types of hungary/romania/finland? looks a little nicer...

Denniss -> RE: New Map (9/18/2004 10:09:04 PM)

Good Idea with renaming the mixed fighters !

Upgrade paths : there should be upgrade paths even for older equipment or this old stuff will sit there forever .
I especially saw this on the russian side with 6000 T34 in stock and most T26/BT still in use - replacing takes place very slowly (1 tank Bn/Rgt per turn reformed message startingin 1942 or 1943) .
It seems replacing does work better on the german side so I decided to give old stuff Pz-IIIj/60 or IVg as path (if it's still sitting there)

JagdFlanker -> RE: New Map (9/18/2004 11:29:00 PM)

funny it took me this long to clue in about the upgrading! it's a shame then that i can't do anything about the upgrade cheating, but oh well - both sides have equal advantage in that one. so, i guess we have a new problem - if i upgrade the Pz-38(t)f to marder III, i guess that screws up the auto equip upgrades for the tank Bn's!

i was looking at the locked aircraft slots and i think the ju-87b has a locked slot too as you may not manually upgrade to the ju-87d with it.

the extra russian population comes from experience/experimenting playing russia - once i took out stalin and replace him first turn with zhukov to see what happens, and it wasn't until november in the game that i noticed i never got any new reinforcements, so i was going to play the rest of the game (against someone else) with only the units i had on 6/22/41! so through conservative defense i lost only 70-75,000 troops by dec 1st 1941, and by the time spring '42 rolled around i lost mabe 90-95,000 squads, all my units were pretty much at 90%, and i had 7,000 squads in the pool. when germany started attacking in may '42 it took 3 weeks for the pool to be back to '0' squads and my army was getting chewed to pieces since i didn't have enough units for any defence in depth. through experimenting i found that i lost 150 reinforcement units, 100 of which were new inf divisions and mabe 15% were already full of squads. of coarse there's no way all the divisions should be near full at any time, but even adding 150 population to the soviet side is not going to change anything for the soviets in '41 or '42 - germany has it's way with the defending soviets and no extra population is going to change much. i am going to give the soviets an extra 150 population - 100 on sevastopol and an extra 50 on moscow for 100 there, just to increase the value of those 2 cities and give germany the opportunity to knock off the extra population. but in the end what this accomplishes is that the new reinforcements can at least fill up with squads once, then after that moscow and likely sevastopol will fall so the soviets will be back to normal and will have to sink or swim on their losses. in my readme i have the part on the bottom showing how the soviets have less experience than originally and entreanchment is much less effective and harder to get compared to the original WiR, but no population #'s have ever changed and the soviets are the ones that got hurt the most by these rules since they are the ones on the defensive for 2 years!

pretty longwinded, and there is the possibilty i'm wrong, but i'm positive this will improve playbalance for PBEM. mabe i'll give germany an extra 25 too, to be fair...

so, should there be an 'axis bombers' and 'italian bombers' as well, or did only the italians build bombers?

Denniss -> RE: New Map (9/20/2004 3:46:41 AM)

Pz-II and 38(t) should upgrade to Pz-IIIj-60 but then there are not enough factories to produce Marder ....
The Ju87D thing was manual factory upgrade - the 87D was created in one of the locked slots so it was unavailable for manual selection

I#ll post the OBWIR soon - I'm in the phase of playtesting trying to get rid of a nasty divide error on german production phase .
First one ironed out with plane slot #61 has to be occupied now trying to fix the second one . Maybe something belonged to italian fron surrender/shatter as I removed all units from there to force events and test the factory to armored car conversion and italian invasion is to come shortly

JagdFlanker -> RE: Tanks ! (9/20/2004 3:49:09 AM)

well, i'v just successfully pasted on the possum unit OOB onto the mod, and changed his units over to the mod units, and it looks pretty good! i also renamed all the possum divisions and units so that they are much more like 3.3 - no more roman numerals or cities in the unit names. there are quite a few things i will have to change back to make it more like 3.3, like the german/romanian/hungarian units in the far south should be positioned as in 3.3, since i do believe those units did not start offensive operations until about a month later than the rest of the invasion as semi-done in 3.3. there are also 2 panzer divisions up north which are behind inf divisions that i'd like to set up as in 3.3. i also want to change all readiness and experience of most units to match the 3.3 levels, especially aircraft units since if i remember correctly in possum some air divisions start with big experience at the front, letting the russians give MUCH more resistance than in 3.3. i like the effort possum put into the OOB part at least so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt, see if it works out! but mabe it'l look better with the simpler units!

i guess part of the advantage of doing this is the possum mod has the soviets with "27% more Infantry" so i now have 'an excuse' to add more sov population! but probrably not as much as that...

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/21/2004 5:03:32 AM)

Some thoughts about Pz-II to MarderII and Pz38/t) to MarderIII and T60/70 to Su76 :

Let T70 upgrade to T34/76M42 and give T60/T70 only one single factory .
The second factory originally assigned to T60/70 shoud start as Su76 factory with capacity 40

Nearly the same with PzII and Pz38 :
Do not produce Pz-II at all and factory appears as size 35 Marder-I/II factory in january 1942 to compensate the lost PzII procduction - it's possible Marder1 already exist at this date based on captured french/polish vehicles and Marder2 should not start to appear much later .

What should we do with Pz38/t) and MarderIII ?
-> Tank is usable in the first 6 months but sheduled to be replaced by Pt-IIIj-60
Maybe give extra 300(or 400) Pz38(t)f to pool and factory in Prage appears as size 25 MarderIII fatory at default date

Obwir : Today fixed an annoying "Divide Error" after some hours playtesting - I just forgot to give Panther the correct upgrade path to Panther-G (moved slot) so each time a Panther factory arrived this "Divide Error" appeared .
Will now triplecheck all paths/slots/units to prevent future errors .

What do you like more :
Me109E without upgrade path but hardcoded Fw190 replacement or Me109 to Fw190 path ?
-> hardcode does not work as 190A5 takes 190 slot

The small sized Ju88 factory in Munich should be Me-109 .
One of the later appearing Me109G factory should be changed to Ju87D - one factory is not enough to fill the units and to compensate losses (and you need Fw190F factories,too as Ju87G will later upgrade to them and there are no new Fw190F factories) .

Another thought to ME-262 : Remove 2 factories and switch one factory to Fw190F(with earlier arrival) and let Me-410 upgrade to Me-262 (historical upgrade)

Hmmm - I am missing the T60/70 to Su76 conversion - was it removed in later WIR versions ?
PzII/38(t) to Marder seem to work but only in the first one or two months of 1943.

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/21/2004 11:09:11 PM)

Me-109F renamed to Me-109F/2 as it's data was used and changed cannon to 4 - 15mm+2x7.92mm
Axis level bombers moved to #63 and higher
Mig3 pool reduced to 200 and Mig1 increased to 100
Mig3 production increased to 4 - pre mass production
He-111 upgrades to Ju-188 - He-111 is considered too slow and not enough bomb load
Do17Z pool upgraded to 400 - they were to be phased-out and a lot of them had already been changed to He-111 or Ju88
Do17Z durability upgraded by two points to 34 - was a little bit tougher
Added Ju188 with better MVR/Dogfight and +10 range and +2 durab at 1/1943 and all other data the same as Ju88
Renamed the second ZG26 arriving later in the game to ZG76
created russian C47/Li2 transport aircraft and added a factory in Kazan arriving 1/42 to produce C47/Li2 - TB3 upgrades to C47 now
Ju52/3m cannon changed to 4 - 1x12.7+2x7.92
Ju52/3m load changed to 2.5t = 55(in lbs)
TB3 load changed to 150(in lbs)
Me109G6 cost changed to 3 - mass production
Ju87B cost increased to 5 - slow production
Ju87B/D cannon rating reduced to 2 - 2x7.92mm and defensive armament not included
Ital fighter cannon upgrade to 6 - some had 2x12mm but many had 2x12+2x7mm guns
Axis fighter cannon upgraded to 7 - some old ones with 2x12 or 2x12+2x7mm but some with 20+4x7mm(D.520)or 2x20+2x12(or 2x7mm)(IAR)
P38 MVR changed back to 21 - too good against Me109/Fw190 in playtesting
La5FN/LA7/Yak3/Yak7/all Yak9 cost reduced by one point
Il2M3/Il10 classified as Tank Destroyer but leaving Il2 as Ground attack
Il2M3/Il10 MVR changed a little downwards to 16/18
Fw190F renamed to Fw190F8 to represent the Fighter-bomber version of the Fw190A8 with adjusted time of arrival
SG units set to arrive with Fw190F have been adjusted to arrive earlier with Ju87 types and at least one with HS129 - the Ju87 will later upgrade to Fw190F
Fw190A5/A8 cost changed to 4 and Fw190A increased to 5 - mass production effects for the later models and production problems for the first series (and preventing the player from producing too much of them too fast)
Hs129 durability set back to 40 - plane armor was good but the engines did not like getting fired at
Plane units shuffled around(except fin/rum/hun/ital) to have them ordered from bottom to top :
Transport - SG/Stg (DB/TD later Fw190F) - ZG/SKG(Me110) - level bombers - fighters

It seems there has to be a plane in Slot#61 or game hangs at german production with divide error
It seems tank slots #64-69 are occupied with symbols for german infantry and for russian art/Flak/AT/recon/infantry

Splitted 20 point Heavy Industry in Berlin into 2x9 points to increase chance of growth and to compensate for Warszaw a little
Splitted 15 point Heavy Industry in Essen into 9/5 points to increae chance of growth and to compensate for Warszaw a little
Heavy Industry in Wuppertal/Cologne reduced from 10 to 9
Heavy Industry shedule to arrive as new factory modified to have one size-5 and one size-1 factory arriving 1942 - 1x5+2x1 in 1943 and 3x5+2x1 in 1944
Added Heavy Industry size 5 in Warszaw to represent industrial capability of Poland
Russian Heavy Industry moved from german slot #148/149 to russian slots 150+ - maybe an error or just cosmetic
StugIIIb factory in Leipzig changed to StugIIIf appearing 3/1942
MarderIII factory in Stettin changed to StugIIIg appearing 9/1942
T60 factory in Kazan changed to size-30 Su76 appearing in 1/1943
Me109G factory in Frankfurt to Ju87D and arriva set 20 turns earlier
Me262 factory in Leipzig changed to Fw190F8 with arrivaldate 20 turns earlier
Me262 factory in Kassel changed to He177 arriving mid/1943
Me262 factory in Dresden removed
Hs129 factory in Stettin removed
PzIIf factory in Berlin changed to size 35 MarderI/II appearing 1/1942
Pz38(t)f factory in Prague changed to size 25 MarderIII appearing 3/1942
Tiger factories in Kassel and Wuppertal removed - too much of them existing
Re-arranged factories to have them in order : HI-Art-Tank-Plane
Multiple factories of the same type in the same city sorted to be on nearby slots

JSU152 cost changed to 6 - similar to JSU122 already costing 6
T70 changed to arrive 1/1942 for later upgrade to T34/76 M42
Pz-IIf upgrade path changed to Pz-IVe/f
Pz38(t)a upgrade path changed to Pz-IIIh/j42
Pt38(t)f upgrade path changed to Pz-IIIj-60
Pz-IVe/f cost changed to 5 to reflect slower production 1941
StuGIIIb cost increased to 4 to reflect slower production in 1941
Panther-G cost changed to 5 to reflect mass production in 1944
Tank unit slot#223 changed from Panther to Nashorn as it's a JPz unit - error ?
PzIIf pool changed to 500 and Pz38(t) to 300 to compensate losses due to factories appearing 1942 as MarderII/MarderIII
Marder II renamed to Marder I/II to represent both types - arrival date set to 1/1942
Some SS Pz Bn with PzIVh arriving earlier than tank arrival changed to PzIVg
Recon/Armored Car to attack3 and defense 2
KV2 upgrade path changed to KV85
Su122 upgrade path change to Su152 to JSU152
Su76 upgrade path changed to JSU122
Panther/Panther-G cost changed from 6/5 to 7/6
Tiger/Koenigstiger cost changed from 7/9 to 8/9

KG60 changed from Ju88 to Do17Z
KG66 changed from Do17Z to He177 with 10 planes
JV44 changed to 90 experience and 100 planes
JG4/JG6/JG300 changed from Fw190 to A5
JG106-110 changed from Fw190 to A8

Attached :
My modded OBWIR mostly with equipment data/factory changes
-> remove the .txt from the end and decompress using Winzip or Winrar
Either replace original files from Flanker Mod or -better - copy your existing Flanker Mod directory and use this copy to test my changes

crusher -> RE: Tanks ! (9/22/2004 6:26:32 AM)

denniss i would like to try your mod but i can not get it to download i get a message that says cannot find site i have downloaded other things from matrix with no problems.

Denniss -> RE: Tanks ! (9/22/2004 1:58:43 PM)

Click on Attachment then right click on obwir.zip.txt and save Link/target as and save it on your HDD .
Then rename it to obwirmod.zip

This forum only allows .txt files and some other types but no .zip files .

IF it still does not work please send me a PM with your mail and I'll mail it to you

JagdFlanker -> RE: possum mod! (9/22/2004 3:34:12 PM)

if you download WINRAR it sees it as a zip file instantly with no need for name changing.

thanks for the new obwir deniss! i am currently well on my way to getting a basic version of v0.2 up and running, whereby i'll post it for you when i get it going. i took the hq's, groups, lcu's, subs, and airgroups from the possum obwir and pasted it on to the 3.3 obwir, so now there's a LOT of cleaning up to do! having small problems with the aircraft part, but it's just a matter of playing with it until i find out the problem. looks pretty good so far! i plan on having far less factories in the next version so i kept the 3.3 factories and will edit from there to make it easier.

just to let you know as well it is inadvisable to add new afv's to the database after the inf/AT/arty since they appear AFTER those ikons in the game (which looks silly) and most importantly once you change a Bn to that type it may never be manually upgraded to anything else (like the StuG IIIb currently). i have the JagdTiger in a spot there currently, but i have little fear that any game will make it to mid 1944 anyways, and once you change a Bn to JagdTiger there's no other afv you'd want to change it to anyways!!

Denniss -> RE: possum mod! (9/24/2004 7:44:50 PM)

Bugfixed version of my OBWIR Data mod - forgot to change some symbols back .
Just to use for testing the tank/plane data and how they work in combat

Please give me some feedback about the new Tank/Plane data !
I'd like to have some suggestions/opinions how good or how bad they are !

JagdFlanker -> RE: possum mod! (9/25/2004 3:39:11 AM)

of interest, i stumbled over this on the net:

Bf 109 or Me 109 ?
What is right: Bf 109, Bf-109, BF-109, Bf109, Me 109, Me-109, ME 109, or ME109?

In 1938, during the production of the C version, Messerschmitt's global reputation has grown to the point where the Air Ministry suggested changing his company's name from Bayerische Flugzeugwerke to Messerchmitt A.G.. Subsequent aircraft would be identified with the "Me" prefix; those already in production, the 109, would retain the "Bf" designator. Nonetheless, many people began referring to the "Me 109," including the USAAF; contemporary air combat reports are filled with references to the "Me 109."

In German usage at the time, "Bf 109" was correct. No dash, lower case "f," not "Me 109," and including a space between "Bf" and "109." But confusion persists to this day. Try a web search on "Messerschmitt Me 109." You'll get almost as many hits as with the proper abbreviation.


Denniss -> RE: possum mod! (9/26/2004 2:07:30 AM)

Everybody should know the Me109 just like the Spitfire or the P51/P47 .
Bf109 may not be so well known

Just leave it as Me-109
-> Me for their famous name and the - as all planes have it

Denniss -> RE: possum mod! (9/29/2004 12:30:29 AM)

Hmmmm - it seems I have to have a small look on Italian bombers - the mixed Bombers do have not enough bomb load to represent SM79 and BR.20 as main italian bombers
SM79 should have ~1200Kg and BR20 ~1600Kg
SM79 range is ~2000KM
BR20 range is ~3000km
Data taken from Lemairesoft now trying to confirm

Maybe range has to be adjusted a little to 31-38 and bomb load set to 1400Kg = 21.6 = 22 (grain conversion not lbs)

JagdFlanker -> RE: possum mod! (9/29/2004 3:18:06 AM)

actually it might be an option to rename mixed to 'axis bombers' and use it for both the axis and italians - it would stink to have both bombers use 1 ikon! and perhaps it could use mostly italian stats to give the finnish, romanian, and hungarian bombers the benefit of the doubt - the axis (mixed) bombers are not upgraded all through the war!

things are a little slow right now in regards to my programming the new dbase, but i'll be back on track within a week. in the meantime i have been looking at the map a little and trying to 'clean' it up a bit - i found a copy of WiR 3.0 and wow, is the map different!! i'm trying to vary my new map off that one, since that more represents our lord Gary Grigsby's vision, and some of the changes made to it since the original map seem more interesting and perhaps optional now! more in the future...

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