CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 1.0 (Full Version)

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Fido81 -> CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 1.0 (7/16/2021 4:20:45 AM)

Here's a scenario for testing, based on what might have happened during the past several weeks of CSG-21's deployment.

This is the first scenario I've made that I think is complete enough to share with the C:MO community, so constructive feedback would be appreciated.

Feedback about scoring would be particularly welcome.

EDIT This upload superseded by v1.0. Link to download: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5063526




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 10:45:28 AM)

OK, have my deployments set up.

Is this historical as to the aircraft in the region?
1. USS Sullians didn't have any MH-60Rs aboard?
2. If not historical the UK version of the RC-135W Rivet Joint would be useful. Without one I have the P8 in a standard maritime patrol along the coast just outside the Turkish/Syrian waters to suck up as much intel as possible.
3. No E-3's in the area? NATO E-3s?

In any case here goes...

[image]local://upfiles/44561/C8CFD3B6B327480794A6C14FC2E3219A.jpg[/image]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 11:27:07 AM)

OK so reading my instructions, HM Government only wants to expend six (6) of their Tomahawks. Doesn't say anything about the rich Americans with their numerous TLAMs. So popped off 4 each at the leadership compounds, military base and one FOB. Did so now as to give the TLAMs a better angle and avoiding close proximity to the Russian S-400 battalion in western Syria.

[image]local://upfiles/44561/C1F40CB2BCE74954921C35441CD7AB98.jpg[/image]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 12:38:31 PM)

So one suggestion is I'm just picking off the ISIS positions using the Sullivans' RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOMs and directing them up the Bekaa Valley. In about another hour of play they will all be gone and pretty much my mission accomplished.

There is an Iran S-300 Position near HOMs, Russian BUKs near the northern exit of the Bekaa and Syrian ADA/AAA positions including Pantsirs that would engage any TLAMs coming from that direction. You might consider adding them. Otherwise I just direct all of the RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOMs to destroy ISIS. BTW the Russians apparently engaged a volley of Block III TLAM-Cs which I ignored.




BDukes -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 7:36:58 PM)

OOF lost big and beautiful to a second salvo. Didn't expect what I should of expected..[:D]

Nice design overall!

Couple things to consider (nice way for me to whine)

Big neutral and reputable fishing on AIS so maybe make them all detectable to reflect modern shipping traffic. Most platforms are on nautical charts so those would definitely be seen unless they're under a year old.
I'd say the group would be on surge ops if strikes were planned. The issue for me is really lots won't be ready to final hours under non-surge conditions. Not sure the MOD would make things hard like that. So surge if possible but if the intent is to squeeze maybe stagger some ready times to give a bit more.
If no surge please give the Poseidon sonobouy loadout.

Keep up the good work. I'll be going back to this!

Mike




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 8:35:13 PM)

Guess I haven't hit the surprise package yet!




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 9:27:59 PM)

HMS Astute is scouting Russian positions off Khmeymim AB

[image]local://upfiles/44561/8C23C050457340BDB00A8A7CB5C1A1AE.jpg[/image]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 9:29:42 PM)

CSG-21 is reconsolidated...

[image]local://upfiles/44561/B9DADDE427D8419FA2D13C4268775CC5.jpg[/image]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 10:48:35 PM)

Well things went south really quickly!!!!! [:D] [8D]

Found the "Surprise! [sm=00000436.gif]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 11:46:11 PM)

OK so survived the initial exchange OK. Lost an F-35B, that was RTBing to the QE from and Anti-ISIS mission, The P8 and Tanker. Exchanged them for a May and TU-142. That could have gone better but considering I was caught flat footed could have been worse. SSM exchange with Moskva went OK with most Vampires splashed (but three are still inbound). My main issue now is with Sustained air ops my F-35s will never be in a position to strike the Russians and the Last Six of the Sullivans TLAMs were blown out of the sky by the S-400 battery.

Astute is just offshore and is doing an emergency reload of her tubes to TLAMs. Going to pop the TLAMs off at the SAMs on the base and hopefully with the short distance will get something. Otherwise. CSG-21 will use this opportunity to retreat to a position west of Cyprus and hopefully the politicians can deconflict this before I loose a high value unit.




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/16/2021 11:55:05 PM)

Just popped off half my Harpoons at Moskva, don't expect to hit anything but will soak off some SAMs and give the Russians something to deal with as CSG-21 turns to run north of Cyprus to take that position west of Cyprus.

I might get out of this with a marginal victory for my earlier efforts if I don't loose any HVUs.

[image]local://upfiles/44561/5931090306864530A0640E41184208FA.jpg[/image]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 12:28:54 AM)

Two got in,

One sank the AO, not the end of the world, but the other got the QE and destroyed her propulsion.

Fun scenario. Still would suggest adding that Iranian S-300 and Russian BUK system. I probably will play it again to see if I can do better!

SIDE: UK
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x A 136 Tidespring [MARS Tide class]
2x F-35B Lightning II
2x Lightning II [F-35B]
1x Poseidon MRA.1
1x Voyager KC.3 [Airbus A.330-200 MRTT]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
13x 114mm/55 Mk8 HE(MP)ER HE
3x AIM-120D AMRAAM P3I.4
3x AN/ALE-70(V)/T-1687 Expendable Decoy
28x Aster 15 PAAMS [GWS.45 Sea Viper]
38x Aster 30 PAAMS [GWS.45 Sea Viper]
8x GBU-53/B SDB-II
6x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
1x Meteor
13x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]
10x Mk251 Siren Active Decoy Round
28x RGM-109C Tomahawk Blk III TLAM-C
28x RGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
16x RGM-84D Harpoon IC
4x RGM-84G Harpoon ICR
32x RIM-162B ESSM
22x RIM-66M-2 SM-2MR Blk IIIA
12x RIM-66M-5 SM-2MR Blk IIIB
3x Sea Ceptor [CAMM(M)]
8x SPEAR 3
3x SSQ-926 ALFEA
13x SSQ-963D CAMBS VI



SIDE: Russia
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Il-38N May
1x MiG-31K Foxhound
1x Tu-142MZ Bear F Mod 4
3x Tu-22M-3M Backfire C


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
9x AA-10 Alamo A [R-27R, MR TSARH]
7x AA-10 Alamo C [R-27ER, LR TSARH]
4x AK-130 130mm/54 Twin Frag Burst [2 rnds]
7x AK-630M 30mm/65 Gatling Burst [400 rnds]
6x AS-4 Kitchen D [Kh-32]
7x Generic Chaff Salvo [8x Cartridges]
42x Mine [Bottom, Acoustic Narrow-Band Fuze & Target Discrimination]
4x PK-2 Chaff [TSP-47]
6x RGB-15 [Refined Search, Passive Omni]
8x RGB-41 [Search, Passive Omni]
5x RGB-48 [Search, Passive Directional]
4x RGB-58 [Track, Active/Passive]
9x RGB-75 [Basic Search, Passive Omni]
17x SA-21b Growler [40N6]
33x SA-N-12 Grizzly [9M317]
6x SA-N-24 Grinch [9M342]
16x SA-N-4b Gecko [9M33M3]
9x SA-N-6a Grumble [5R55RM]
16x SS-N-12 Sandbox Mod 2 [P-1000]
8x SS-N-25 Switchblade [Kh-35 Uran] GLONASS
18x SS-N-27 Sizzler [3M54T Kalibr, Rocket Boosted Penetrator]
24x SS-N-27 Sizzler [3M54T Kalibr]



SIDE: ISIS
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x Building (Place of Worship)
2x Building (Very Large Leadership Compound)
2x Qiam-1 TEL [Cargo]
2x Structure (Forward Operating Base)
1x Structure (Military Base)
2x Vehicle (Car, Unarmed) [Cargo]
4x Vehicle (Truck, Armed Technical) [Cargo]
4x Vehicle (Truck, Armed Technical) [Cargo]
2x Vehicle (Truck, C2/C3) [Cargo]
10x Vehicle (Truck, Unarmed) [Cargo]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
18x 23mm ZSU-23-4 Shilka Burst [50 rnds]



SIDE: Biologics
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: Civilians
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



[image]local://upfiles/44561/A56D9247BE5B4C25A9E430DD4FC7825A.jpg[/image]




Fido81 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 12:50:23 AM)

BeirutDude -

First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts!

The CSG-21 (including the carrier air wing) and Russian OOBs are accurate to the sources I've been able to find (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Carrier_Strike_Group_21, https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/41276/russian-mig-31s-armed-with-anti-ship-ballistic-missiles-join-tu-22m3-bombers-in-syria). I haven't seen any OOBs reference UK land-based aircraft, and I don't know what civilian air traffic patterns look like, so they're very much unrealistic.

1. The Wikipedia OOB doesn't suggest USS The Sullivans deployed with any aircraft. It doesn't look like there's always helicopters attached to the ship, and I haven't found a source for a detachment sailing with them on this deployment.

2. The driving force behind the creation of the scenario was that I wanted to see how the UK CSG concept as deployed would perform against a realistic set of targets and threats. I tried to limit land-based aircraft to those whose absence I thought would handicap the player because CSG-21 had no equivalent, AND where it might be necessary to maintain balance. The Airseeker is a great platform, but the Merlin Crowsnest has an equally good ELINT sensor, and both types of F-35 have better ELINT equipment. I'm also personally interested in how spacecraft integrate into the modern battlespace, and thought having satellite downlinks would be a more tactically interesting proposition than another strategic aircraft. Between 16 operational airframes of 3 types and downlinks from 5 satellites, I think the player is in a very healthy spot in terms of ELINT capabilities.

3. No Sentry AEW.1s for similar reasons as 2. - the strike group has its own organic AEW assets. For better or for worse, they'll be what the UK brings to blue water conflicts for the next decade+, and I made the scenario in part to see how well they do their job. If I gave the player a Sentry, I don't believe they'd use a Crowsnest, for no other reason than I wouldn't! [:D]

You make a fair point about the Syrian/Russian/Iranian IADS, and I'll think about it. I worry both about scenario creep, and about what equipment the CSG has to counter them (I don't like the idea of telling the player to fight a battle they can't win). If I decide not to add them, I'll put in the briefing that the Syrian IADS is descoped from the scenario, which will hopefully make players feel comfortable sending the P-8 over inland Syria for ISTAR. Did you feel like you had enough of the weapons you needed?

You know you're free to switch from sustained air operations to surge air operations, right? And also from Fighter/ASW quick turnaround to all aircraft quick turnaround? My impression is that for strikes against a terrorist organization that lacks weapons to threaten a 5th generation fighter over a several day period, sustained air operations without quick turnaround is the most realistic tempo. At the same time, if a player got surprised...or was simply an aggressive commander...I would want them to be able to dial up the heat appropriately.




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 1:06:50 AM)

quote:

You know you're free to switch from sustained air operations to surge air operations, right? And also from Fighter/ASW quick turnaround to all aircraft quick turnaround? My impression is that for strikes against a terrorist organization that lacks weapons to threaten a 5th generation fighter over a several day period, sustained air operations without quick turnaround is the most realistic tempo. At the same time, if a player got surprised...or was simply an aggressive commander...I would want them to be able to dial up the heat appropriately.


So I didn't catch the sustained ops initially and then the problem is I had aircraft readying under sustained ops. When I went to switch them to surge I was still locked in with sustained ops ready times. Thus my F-35Bs with no initial loadouts were useless. I agree anti-ISIS ops would be at a sustained rate, but you might ready some more aircraft with load up.

I guess I have some difficulty seeing the UK/RN take on Russia alone without NATO/US ELINT/EW support. Get on the online air tracker and everyday there are multiple US/UK including P-8, EP-3E, Rivet Joint, RG-4 flights past both the Crimea and Syria. That said, I get it that you want a UK centric scenario.

Was fun and nice work. A LOT of work went into this and it shows!!!!




Fido81 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 6:00:45 PM)

BDukes -

Thank you for the kind words!

I like your idea about making all ships detectable.

I was under the impression that sustained ops are more realistic for operations expected to last more than 24 hours against terrorist-type targets. At the same time, I hear what you and BeirutDude are saying. Next revision I'll mention in the briefing that its possible to change between sustained and surge ops, and who is eligible for quick turnarounds. I'll also preset some loadouts - though that does take away some flexibility from the player, which worries me a in light of the surprise.

Unfortunately the 2021 version of Poseidon MRA.1 does not have a sonobouy loadout.

I suppose I'd better get going on v0.2!




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 8:44:12 PM)

quote:

I was under the impression that sustained ops are more realistic for operations expected to last more than 24 hours against terrorist-type targets.


So if this were a two (2) or three (3) day scenario I would totally agree with you. But in a 24 hour scenario the first 20 hours are spent loading out the non-readied aircraft for ASuW ops. I used sustained Ops when designing The Libya War, 1986, but that started as a five (5) day scenario (I think I scaled it back to three (3)?). So I would say use sustained for more than 48 hours or just give us some time for loadouts for unreadied aircraft.

One thing I do if I want the player to choose their loadouts (and I do that a lot) is to set things so combat is unlikely to occur until the player has had a chance to choose the loadout and ready the aircraft. So if I was using sustained Ops I would have slipped the scenario to a two (2) day scenario and pulled CSG-21 west of Cyprus (if fictional). If real life and the CSG was off Syria set it up so ASuW ops aren't possible for 20-24 hours. A bit boring I'll admit, but it lets all players choose their loadouts (some, including myself, don't normally play in the Scenario Editor).

Just some ideas.

Again I had fun and definitely was lulled into a false sense of security!




stww2 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 9:58:17 PM)

I've never seen a scenario do this, and it probably wouldn't apply here, but I wonder if one idea could be to have the side doctrine switch from surge to sustained (or vice-versa) at some pre-determined point in the scenario (that's LUA-able, right?). Or maybe even have a special action that allows the player to switch to surge for, say, a 24 hour period after which the doctrine reverts back to sustained.




Fido81 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/17/2021 11:47:35 PM)

Here's v0.2!

Changelog
- Partial implementation of Syrian IADS
- ISR flights from NAS Sigonella
- Updates to carrier air wing initial loadouts + magazines
- Autodetection on for civilian units
- Surge operational tempo with quick turnaround for all from the start for everybody
- Updates to briefing to reflect changes above as appropriate, and authorization to overfly Turkey
- More surprises [:)]




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/18/2021 12:23:02 PM)

quote:

More surprises [:)]


Good deal!!!!!




Broncepulido -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/18/2021 2:13:03 PM)

SPEAR 3 not yet in service (expected 2025):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPEAR_3




Fido81 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/23/2021 1:27:47 AM)

Changelog v0.3
- Removed Spear 3 and Spear EW. Replaced with more GBU-53, increased house rule Tomahawk use limits
- Increased frequency and type of ISR sources, moved satellites to the ISR side
- Implemented satellite downlink passes and payload passes (radar payloads only)
- More submarine contacts
- Russian helicopters added (as illustrative anti-ISIS forces)




AndrewJ -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/24/2021 1:55:53 AM)

I'm partway through v0.2 at the moment. What are the revised Tomahawk limits?

So far I've only fired 4 from my SSN, but I could fire a few more, if you absolutely insist. [;)]

(Had you originally intended the Tomahawks on the Burke to be bound by the 6-shot limit?)




Fido81 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/24/2021 5:52:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

I'm partway through v0.2 at the moment. What are the revised Tomahawk limits?

So far I've only fired 4 from my SSN, but I could fire a few more, if you absolutely insist. [;)]

(Had you originally intended the Tomahawks on the Burke to be bound by the 6-shot limit?)



The briefing in 0.3 authorizes the player to fire 12 UK Tomahawks since the UK F-35 SPEAR weapons (present in 0.2) have been removed for historical accuracy.

Since USS The Sullivans budget and loadout doesn't come from the UK MOD, I think its Tomahawks technically do not count towards the limit. However, you don't *have* to use every tool in your toolbox.




Gunner98 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/24/2021 10:54:19 AM)

OK, this looks like I'll have to give it a try.

quote:

The Wikipedia OOB doesn't suggest USS The Sullivans deployed with any aircraft. It doesn't look like there's always helicopters attached to the ship, and I haven't found a source for a detachment sailing with them on this deployment.


US DDGs rarely leave home without them, certainly for a prolonged international deployment like this one. If part of a (US) CSG then the Sqn HQ & maintenance is on the carrier and the airframes rotate between escorts. Independent ops would have a small slice of maintenance as part of the air Det, in this case they may be on the QE. They may have picked up a Det from 6th Fleet as they entered the Med but they probably have a dedicated Det from a CONUS based Sqn.

A good way of limiting TLAMS is to simply remove them from the ships. The Ships Capt does not control the use of the TLAM, it is done at Fleet (or perhaps CSG) level, in 6th Fleet TF 64 is TLAM Strike Ops. In this case I suspect you're replicating that the CSG has been authorized XX number, so removing the rest limits player temptation.

This looks very interesting.

B




AndrewJ -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/24/2021 1:38:24 PM)

Is any one else finding that the UUVs on the Artful don't appear as units on the map when you launch them?

Edit: turns out they show up 127 miles away to the SW!




Broncepulido -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/24/2021 4:07:20 PM)

USS The Sullivans (DDG-63) is a Burke Flight I without hangar facilities.
Against many published sources, very doubtful about her carrying helicopters.
Also on her FB page, only touch and go by MH-60S and Merlin (also, in my own scenario in Harpgamer!):
https://www.facebook.com/thesullivansddg68/




Gunner98 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/25/2021 10:54:30 AM)

quote:

USS The Sullivans (DDG-63) is a Burke Flight I without hangar facilities.


OK, my bad, should have checked. Tx




BeirutDude -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/25/2021 12:07:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

quote:

USS The Sullivans (DDG-63) is a Burke Flight I without hangar facilities.


OK, my bad, should have checked. Tx


I'm guilty of the same thing. As a knee Jerk reaction in scenario design I tend to put ASW helios on any little boy/escort that has a helio pad. That's especially true for the UK, USN, Russia, India, Japan and PLA(N). Will look a lot closer from now on.




BDukes -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/25/2021 4:35:36 PM)

It's ok guys. I forgive you[:'(]

Mike




Fido81 -> RE: CSG-21 in the Eastern Mediterranean, 2021 (7/25/2021 4:48:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

Is any one else finding that the UUVs on the Artful don't appear as units on the map when you launch them?

Edit: turns out they show up 127 miles away to the SW!


I just checked, and it seems when the submarine is added to a mission, its child UUVs are automatically added to that mission too. When I tried it, 4 of those UUVs showed up in the Mission Editor window, but 1 only appeared in the Docking Ops window. I posted a bug report.




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