Deep Battle, Blitzkrieg, Revisionist War (Full Version)

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rhinobones -> Deep Battle, Blitzkrieg, Revisionist War (6/29/2021 1:55:33 AM)

I plan to upload a trilogy of scenarios which have all been designed as hypothetical PBM contests. These scenarios are intended for those players who enjoy the challenge of a Cheyenne opponent while not being restricted to historical settings. All have been updated to TOAW IV.

First scenario is Deep Battle 1930 RBv02. All attempts to contact the original author failed. The following is from his briefing:

- Mikhail Tukhachevsky

"Deep battle is battle with the massive use of new mobile and shock forces for the simultaneous attack of the enemy to the entire depth of his combat formation with the aim of fully encircling and destroying him. The new means and tactics of deep battle increase the importance of surprise."

BACKGROUND:

This scenario shamelessly steals several ideas from another TOAW scenario, "Blitzkrieg 1950", to recreate a hypothetical conflict in 1930 between two major powers along with several allied states caught in the middle. Fans of "Blitzkrieg" will notice many similarities between the two scenarios and hopefully they'll have some fun with this new one as well. Most credit should be given to Curt Chambers, the designer of the "Blitzkrieg" TOAW scenario, and Avalon Hill, the makers of the boardgame with the forementioned title.

DESIGN NOTES:

There are four main differences between "Deep Battle" and "Blitzkrieg". Firstly, the size and scope are different. "Deep Battle" involves more units, a larger map, a longer time frame, and more strategic choices. Its size and scope is roughly twice that of "Blitzkrieg". Secondly, both sides are not exact quantitative equals as in "Blitzkrieg". Overall, the two sides are qualitative equals, but each have unique advantages and disadvantages. Thirdly, the minor countries are no longer walkovers. Players will have to plan a strategy for conquering minor cities. Lastly, the time periods differ by two decades. "Deep Battle" involves pre-WW2 rather than post-WW2 concepts and theories.


Download Blitzkrieg 1950 RBv02 from post #9

Download Revisionist War 1937 v06 from post #12

Deep Battle 1930 RBv02 Download:





rhinobones -> Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/29/2021 1:57:19 AM)

Initial deployment of the Red and Blue forces.

[image]local://upfiles/5722/00F6C4C9D5854C939A18E8F5570B1330.jpg[/image]




golden delicious -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/29/2021 8:06:29 AM)

I read a recent AAR of Chuck's release of this scenario (my first encounter with it I believe, despite the credit I'm given as a playtester), which seemed to be excessively dominated by firepower and attrition due to the very large artillery units and the very low attrition divider. Given the theme of Deep Battle, the attritional nature of the match seemed inappropriate. Did you make any changes to address this?




rhinobones -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/29/2021 3:47:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

Given the theme of Deep Battle, the attritional nature of the match seemed inappropriate. Did you make any changes to address this?


I have enjoyed the game as is and see no reason to second guess the authorís design. However, I understand your comment, but do not find game play negatively impacted since the brutality is equal for both sides.

In your post you donít say directly that you have played this scenario. Are you basing commentary solely on an AAR, examination of settings and/or unit composition?

Regards




golden delicious -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/29/2021 7:24:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

I have enjoyed the game as is and see no reason to second guess the authorís design. However, I understand your comment, but do not find game play negatively impacted since the brutality is equal for both sides.

In your post you donít say directly that you have played this scenario. Are you basing commentary solely on an AAR, examination of settings and/or unit composition?

Regards


I admit I'm not an authority on the scenario. I read the AAR and discussed the results with the players, and I checked the value of the attrition divider because the content of the AAR made it sound like it was very low- and it was.

Naturally you've spent more time in the scenario than I have, but it seemed to me (and the players in the AAR) that all the nuance that's suggested in the briefing, with the various strategic options for the two players, is more or less destroyed by the emphasis which has to be placed on simply lining up as much of your artillery park as possible against the other guy's line and blasting away for as many rounds as you can get.




rhinobones -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/29/2021 8:35:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


I admit I'm not an authority on the scenario. I read the AAR and discussed the results with the players, and I checked the value of the attrition divider because the content of the AAR made it sound like it was very low- and it was.

Naturally you've spent more time in the scenario than I have, but it seemed to me (and the players in the AAR) that all the nuance that's suggested in the briefing, with the various strategic options for the two players, is more or less destroyed by the emphasis which has to be placed on simply lining up as much of your artillery park as possible against the other guy's line and blasting away for as many rounds as you can get.


The only AAR Iím familiar with was written in 2007 for the TOAW III version. I suspect the scenario designed has since evolved a bit. If you have a more current AAR please attach a link.

As for artillery, each side has about 650 units of which only 4 per side are artillery divisions (each with 240 tubes of 155mm). I suppose the player can elect to divide the 4 divisions into 12 regiments, but obviously the effectiveness is diluted. Also, a player could concentrate the 4 artillery divisions into one big bang, but that tactic comes with its own consequences. Really donít see where masses of artillery are available to line up and blast away and 4 units out of 650 do not constitute an overwhelming emphasis.

HQs do have artillery in their TO&E, but these are 100-105mm tubes and only suitable to support at 1 hex.

Regards




golden delicious -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/30/2021 8:21:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones


The only AAR Iím familiar with was written in 2007 for the TOAW III version. I suspect the scenario designed has since evolved a bit. If you have a more current AAR please attach a link.


It's on a private forum- I'll ask the author to contact you.

quote:

As for artillery, each side has about 650 units of which only 4 per side are artillery divisions


Perhaps you and I are looking at different versions. I see artillery brigades- I would be surprised if these are divided divisions- and I can see five in a single screenshot. From multiple screenshots I can infer that there are at least two more (based on the different icons).

Anyway, if we're looking at different versions that would explain our different feelings about the scenario.




rhinobones -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (6/30/2021 4:59:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

It's on a private forum

Perhaps you and I are looking at different versions.

Anyway, if we're looking at different versions that would explain our different feelings about the scenario.


Constructive comments are always welcome, but first you should actually review the material prior to commenting. In this case the subject is Deep Battle 1930 RBv02, not something you found on a private forum.

Regards





rhinobones -> Blitzkrieg 1950 RBv02 (6/30/2021 9:55:27 PM)

Blitzkrieg 1950 has been updated with the concurrence of the original author. It is posted here as Blitzkrieg 1950 RBv02. An AAR for version v01 is available.

The scenario is programed with limited PO capability.

Regards

Download Deep Battle 1930 RBv02 from post #1

Download Revisionist War 1937 v06 from post #12

Blitzkrieg 1950 RBv02 download:




golden delicious -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (7/1/2021 9:13:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Constructive comments are always welcome, but first you should actually review the material prior to commenting. In this case the subject is Deep Battle 1930 RBv02, not something you found on a private forum.


Well- I foolishly assumed that my friends who were playing the match (last year), and you updating the scenario, would both be using the most recent version of the scenario from Chuck. If I get the time I'll download what you've worked on and see if I can work out the difference.

Anyway, I thought I was pretty constructive.




golden delicious -> RE: Deep Battle Screen Shot (7/1/2021 6:22:13 PM)

I've asked the players what version they were playing- having opened yours, it looks like it's different but on the face of it similar, as there's nine artillery brigades in addition to the four divisions you mention, and the attrition divider is still six. I'll see if I can get a copy of the scenario that was used for the AAR to determine whether the result was relevant to this- it may be Chuck boosted replacements which would make attrition less crucial.




rhinobones -> Revisionist War 1937 v06 (7/9/2021 12:59:58 AM)

Revisionist War 1937 v06 is being posted with update number 6. Changes are as follows:

Changes in v06
1. Removed engineer allocations from front line combat units. Engineer
TO&E slots remain in these units but are not manned.
2. Removed Dense Urban from all but capital city hexes.
3. Redeployed the anti-tank, anti-air and special force units as subdivided
units. This permits the player to use these units as smaller units while not
suffering the proficiency loss penalty normally incurred during subdivision.
The player retains the option to recombine units without penalty.
4. All formation proficiency levels revised to a minimum of 70%.
5. Deleted all Leftist Ba 65 tactical bombers (range 8) and replaced with
Z.1007bis tactical bombers (range 14).
6. Amphibious capability given to bridge engineering units; provides the
ability to perform bridging operations in shallow water and flooded marsh.
7. Initial Theater Reconnaissance set to 5%. Follow on Theater Options may
increase Theater Reconnaissance to 10% and 15%.
8. Both forces shock set to 105%.
9. Recommended Advanced Rules set OFF: Active Disengagement, No
Borders, High Supply, Variable Initiative and New Mud and Snow Rules.


Download Deep Battle 1930 RBv02 from post #1

Download Blitzkrieg 1950 RBv02 from post #9

Download Revisionist War 1937 v06:





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