Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (Full Version)

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darkhelix -> Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 11:29:01 AM)

I'm trying (again) to learn how to play CMO.
I'm stuck on the final Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5.

- I have to escort an unarmed Fleet Oiler with two FFH 150 Anzac's and two MH-60R Seahawks, only one armed with torpedoes, the other has Hellfires.
- There appear to be about 4 enemy submarines in the channel I'm trying to cross, as well as a small fleet of enemy ships and aircraft.
- I run out of weapons on the Anzac's before I can detect and destroy all of the subs as the enemy subs fire so many cruise missiles at my Fleet Oiler.
- I have set up ASW Missions for the MH-60's but they are too slow to detect and destroy the enemy subs.

- My Anzac's are all operating passively and, even though I tell them to attack the subs when they're detected, they won't.
- I've checked EMCON settings, which are Tight, and the enemy has been identified as hostile.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks




Gunner98 -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 12:19:47 PM)

Hello darkhelix

I have not played this scenario but from your comments I can propose the following:

1) It is a lot easer to shoot the archer instead of the arrows, and the MH-60 has superb radar. You you might be able to go hunting for the enemy ships. Just be cautious of their Air Defence. If the Anzacs have ASMs they can help once the enemy surface ships are detected.

2) You may want to adjust the WRA for your SAMs on the ships to shoot only 1 per incoming threat. Default is usually 2, but if they are low quality ASMs or come at you in dribs & drabs, 1 is often enough, and if you have good contact if that one misses your ships will have time to re-engage.

3) If the depth of the channel is shallow or there is a lot of ocean floor terrain, it may be better to go with Active sonar or at least active sonobouys

4) Is there a way to maneuver around the ambush zone? Unlikely if this is set up as a tutorial but trouble is always better when avoided.

5) Do the ANZACs have ASW weapons? Are they loaded? Are they within parameters? Not really sure why they wouldn't be engaging, but if you FFHs are close enough to engage with onboard weapons --- they are probably too close anyway

6) If the enemy knows you are there, why go passive?

Just some thoughts without knowing the scenario

B




Schr75 -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 6:56:32 PM)

Hi darkhelix

I just finished the tutorial and here´s how I did it.

SPOILERS AHEAD!

After I finished the gunfire mission, I set the two frigates to staggered sprint and drift positions about 20 nm ahead of the HVU with all sensors on.
This way I would always have one frigate drifting at a time.

I soon detected an enemy sub and sank it with a Seahawk.

I then send my Seahawk with Hellfires on a recon mission, and I found a group of missile boats, which I attacked.
After my second attack I recovered my helicopter at the other frigate as it had another 8 Hellfires.

After my third attack they were all gone. They managed to launch 4 missiles, but out of 48 missiles that is getting of cheap.

Basically, keep all your sensors on. You are under surveillance from the start.
Control your fire. Your ESSM´s are great missiles, so only fire one at a time at missile targets.

I hope this helped.

Søren




darkhelix -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 7:01:23 PM)

Thanks for your tips @Gunner98, I will try them out later.

Re Point 1). I might have misunderstood you. My problem is not the enemy ships but the amount of 'hidden' submarines and their huge stock of missiles that outnumber (I suspect) what my Anzac's carry for defense.

Re Point 3), Only one of the MH60's has Sonobuoys and, while it dropped two in the Mission area that I created, that was it, and there were submarines firing at me from all over the place, making it impossible to cover all the areas with ASW Missions as I can only be in one place at a time.

Re Point 4), no alternative route I think as I am supposed to go through the channel where all the defenses are placed

Re Point 5) Yes, the Anzacs carry 32 RIM-162B ESSM's each and 18 MU-90 Torpedoes and I was amazed when the Anzac protecting the Fleet Oiler 'ran out of missiles' and stopped firing at the incoming missiles.

I'm getting really frustrated as I don't know if it's me or the Sim doing something wrong. I'm pretty sure it's me as I'm so new to the game although I do see some weird things happening such as Range Symbols not merging in/ out of groups even though the option is checked in the Settings.

Thanks for your help, I'll keep trying until I figure it out.




darkhelix -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 7:08:41 PM)

Thank you @Schr75 - I'll try that too!

How do you stagger Sprint and Drift between two frigates?

Maybe it was missile boats firing at me? I detected some submarines but never found the missile boats with my MH-60's.




darkhelix -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 8:50:19 PM)

I tried a few more times but I can't even detect the subs any more!
I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'll try again another day!




darkhelix -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 11:27:53 PM)

I managed to complete the mission and feel like I have really achieved something tonight!
I scored a Triumph which felt really good after trying so hard.

<SPOILER>
I had both Frigates sonar range overlapping slightly and positioned them 20nm ahead of the Fleet Oiler.
I set up an ASW coridoor ahead of the Group and had my MH60 with torpedos fly a Patrol there constantly.
I had to keep manually moving the coridoor to keep up with the group, I think there must be an easier way to do this.
I encountered a 3 ship fleet of missile launching frigates that were taken out with Harpoons effectively.
My frigates took out any air threats quickly.
About half way into the journey, I had to move my 2 frigates closer to the Fleet Oiler to provide cover from subs as a sub kept creeping up on me from behind and sinking the Oiler!
What a tough mission!

[image]https://i.imgur.com/tmbisxU.png[/image]




thewood1 -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/19/2021 11:41:30 PM)

The ref pts for the ASW patrol area can be made so the move with the group. Its fairly standard practice to do so. Look up relative reference points in the manual for an explanation.




Rory Noonan -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/21/2021 4:41:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Schr75

Hi darkhelix

I just finished the tutorial and here´s how I did it.

SPOILERS AHEAD!

After I finished the gunfire mission, I set the two frigates to staggered sprint and drift positions about 20 nm ahead of the HVU with all sensors on.
This way I would always have one frigate drifting at a time.

I soon detected an enemy sub and sank it with a Seahawk.

I then send my Seahawk with Hellfires on a recon mission, and I found a group of missile boats, which I attacked.
After my second attack I recovered my helicopter at the other frigate as it had another 8 Hellfires.

After my third attack they were all gone. They managed to launch 4 missiles, but out of 48 missiles that is getting of cheap.

Basically, keep all your sensors on. You are under surveillance from the start.
Control your fire. Your ESSM´s are great missiles, so only fire one at a time at missile targets.

I hope this helped.

Søren

This is the answer [:)]




Rory Noonan -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/21/2021 4:42:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: darkhelix

I managed to complete the mission and feel like I have really achieved something tonight!
I scored a Triumph which felt really good after trying so hard.

<SPOILER>
I had both Frigates sonar range overlapping slightly and positioned them 20nm ahead of the Fleet Oiler.
I set up an ASW coridoor ahead of the Group and had my MH60 with torpedos fly a Patrol there constantly.
I had to keep manually moving the coridoor to keep up with the group, I think there must be an easier way to do this.
I encountered a 3 ship fleet of missile launching frigates that were taken out with Harpoons effectively.
My frigates took out any air threats quickly.
About half way into the journey, I had to move my 2 frigates closer to the Fleet Oiler to provide cover from subs as a sub kept creeping up on me from behind and sinking the Oiler!
What a tough mission!

[image]https://i.imgur.com/tmbisxU.png[/image]

This makes me really happy to read; it's exactly what I had in mind when I designed the tutorial series with a challenging conclusion. Thanks!




ultradave -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/21/2021 5:24:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

The ref pts for the ASW patrol area can be made so the move with the group. Its fairly standard practice to do so. Look up relative reference points in the manual for an explanation.


To give just a little more help, look at the "Missions + Ref Points" menu. 3rd block down is "Make ref. point relative to" and your choices are fixed bearing or rotating bearing.

You select all the points you want (say, a box of 4), select the menu choice, then select the unit you want them to link to, probably in this case one of your frigates. Fixed means that they will always be oriented the same way no matter the course changes, maybe in a case you know the threat is from the east. Rotating is probably what you want, so that when the frigate changes course, the ASW box stays in front of the frigate, no matter what course it changes to. As thewood1 mentions, the explanations are in the manual on how to manage these. Works like a charm.

You can have multiple groups of ref points linked to a unit too. For example, a CVN task force, with a CAP box, or two or three, and one or more ASW boxes for helicopters out front and flanking, all of them rotating or fixed position to the task force. Very powerful and handy thing to get the hang of.

Dave




thewood1 -> RE: Need help to understand what I'm doing wrong in Surface Warfare Tutorial 1.5 (6/21/2021 5:48:50 PM)

Or you can search relative in the manual...

pg 177

"Make Selected Ref Points Relative (Fixed Bearing) to… :
Selecting this and then selecting a unit/group will cause the
reference points to become relative to, or move with the unit/
group. One use of this is making an ASW patrol area for naval
aircraft that moves with the group of ships it’s intended to guard.
Make Selected Ref Points Relative (Rotating Bearing) to…
Similar to the above, only this will cause the reference points to
rotate with the units. So if the points are initially placed to the
north of the subject and it does a 180 degree bearing change,
fixed-bearing points will stay where they are while rotating
bearing points will move with the turn until they are to the south
of the subject"

pg 206

"Making Reference Points Relative: These properties give you
the ability to anchor reference points to moving surface unit
of your or a friendly side. These are set by selecting reference
points, choosing the property in the drop-down list and then
selecting the unit or group in the display they will be relative
to. This allows you to create mission(s) with defined areas that
move relative to a certain unit or its course, such as assigning any
aircraft to a mission that protects a moving surface unit (AAW,
ASW) or units.
Make selected Reference Points Relative (Fixed) bearing to… :
Reference points set to this maintain their position relative to the
selected unit or group. This is useful when you know the bearing
of a known threat and want to keep a patrol between it and the
selected unit regardless of the unit’s course. It is also useful for
missions where staying on station is important. Reference points
that are set to this always have an [f] in their name."

There's a few other mentions and tips on using it in the manual.




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