Subs - donít get it (Full Version)

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aoffen -> Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 12:33:09 AM)

New to the game so if this has been addressed earlier I apologize.

I am playing the 1939 campaign PBEM as the Allies. Early on my convoys weíre being hurt badly by the German subs with no German losses from what I could see, but by 2nd quarter of 1940, with sufficient escorts arriving and better convoy tech, we turned the tables dramatically. Now the subs are being slaughtered and my losses are minimal.

In the Med I sent 2 sub fleets down to sit and patrol between Italy and Nth Africa. Within 2 turns both sub units had been smashed (1 eliminated and 1 reduced to 1 step) by Italian air.

So, I donít quite get it. Subs seem to be unable to survive once there is any opposition. Is it a tactical issue? Should my subs be sculking around the edges and the German subs be scattering the far reaches searching for unprotected convoys? If the anti sub system is working as designed that must be the case. Subs seem so incredibly vulnerable though where ever their opposition bother to confront them. Is that the case or am I missing something?

Regards
Andrew




Harrybanana -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 2:58:54 AM)

The Battle of the Atlantic often swings back and forth. It seems there will be several turns in a row where sub losses are minimal, followed by several turns where the subs are being hit hard. But this is often just about luck and the law of averages. There are 26 turns in a year of Warplan. So go ahead and flip a coin 26 times. In most cases by the end of your 26 flips the number of heads and tails you have flipped will be pretty equal. But sometimes the number of heads you have flipped will be considerably more than the number of tails or vice versa. Even if they are close to equal, after 26 flips, you may notice that you had 3 or 4 flips in a row that were heads and another 3 or 4 that were tails. This is essentially what is happening in the BOA.

Having said the above, there are a number of factors that will influence how well, or poorly, the Allies do in the BOA. These factors include:

1. How many escorts are in the attacked convoy lane? The fewer you have below the number required (usually 10), the more likely the U-Boats are to win the battle on a particular turn.

2. What is the percentage increase in your ASW rating as a result of having CVs and DDS on a convoy line within 24 hexes of the U-Boats?

3. What are the relative tech levels of the escorts and the subs?

4. What is the reconnaissance level of the other player in the hex where the U-Boats are located? The higher the reconnaissance level the more likely the escorts and attacking aircraft are to find and damage the subs. This is why your subs in the Mediterranean were hammered by the Italian aircraft. They were too close to a coastal hex owned by the Axis, so the Axis had a high reconnaissance level. For the same reason German U-Boats in the Atlantic will do much better if they stay away (at least 7 hexes) from Allied controlled land hexes (ie the UK, Iceland and Greenland).

5. Are the subs attacking in wolf packs of 2, or even better, 3? For some reason they seem to do better when they do.

6. I am not sure about this one, but I also believe that the year makes a difference. U-Boats in 1939 and 1940 just seem to do better than U-Boats in later years.




canuckgamer -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 5:49:59 AM)

I was trying to confirm the rule about subs in raider mode but as usual it is difficult to locate it in the manual. I thought that subs in raider mode which is required to attack convoy routes are more difficult to be spotted by planes and ships? I'm wondering if the subs you moved to the Med were in fleet mode which may explain being spotted and destroyed by the Italian air.




Uxbridge -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 6:41:52 AM)

What is the percentage increase in your ASW rating as a result of having CVs and DDS on a convoy line within 24 hexes of the U-Boats?

Harry, this was introduced in WarPlan Pacific. Is it also present in WarPlan Europe now?




ncc1701e -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 7:37:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

What is the percentage increase in your ASW rating as a result of having CVs and DDS on a convoy line within 24 hexes of the U-Boats?

Harry, this was introduced in WarPlan Pacific. Is it also present in WarPlan Europe now?


Correction, it was first introduced in Warplan Europe.




aoffen -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 1:37:35 PM)

I got pretty well smashed in the first 2 turns of the war losing a 10 or 12 MS, so I threw the kitchen sink at the convoy problem.

By mid '40 I had 10 escorts on the 2 key lines and '40 tech for Convoys and Detection. I also put a CV TF out each turn I saw subs and parked next to them. By the end of '40/early '41, I was at' 41 tech in both and had a strat bomber specialising in detection operation out of Scotland.

The result is the subs seem to have run away. I am suspicious he has given up the BoA to focus 110% on defeating Russia, but he could be just building and planning to come out in strength later in '41. Not sure at this point.

Cheers
Andrew




aoffen -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 1:38:58 PM)

.....and yes my subs in the Med were in fleet mode. I thought they needed that o be patrolling.




Nirosi -> RE: Subs - donít get it (6/12/2021 2:43:43 PM)

quote:

I thought that subs in raider mode which is required to attack convoy routes


Just to specify, a sub in fleet mode will also raid a convoy lane. But will also try to attack any enemy fleet coming within 5 hexes (which is usually, but not always, bad!). While in raider mode you will attack only convoys (and also be harder to find by land based planes).




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