Operation Weserübung (Full Version)

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El_Condoro -> Operation Weserübung (6/2/2021 9:22:39 AM)

I've searched for threads related to this and found a few but none seem to address this issue.

Denmark was taken by the Germans quickly and used as a base for its invasion of Norway but in WiE, the Norway DE (643/4) can be answered in the affirmative but the Denmark DE (601) answered in the negative. With or without Denmark, the invasion of Norway will succeed.

Linked to this is the timing of the fall of Denmark - it occurs at the end of the Axis turn (surrender2.txt) and Denmark is left without any German forces in it. An Allied (LR) transported unit can take Copenhagen without a fight. Not only will this not attract any diplomatic repercussions that a DoW on Denmark would (especially the US reaction) but it gives the Allies access to the Baltic Sea with their fleet and ACs. Until Copenhagen is retaken by the Germans - exactly when they are focused on France - the fleets can roam free and perhaps even launch an invasion against Germany itself. Even if this will be crushed eventually, it will be a huge PITA for the German player.

I'm in favour of the what-if aspect of this but it raises two questions for me:
1. Why can't the Denmark surrender occur at the beginning of the Axis turn so that the Germans can send units in to protect it?
2. How can Norway still be invaded with Denmark still neutral? Presumably the KM and LW will know that passage across the Kattegat will be almost suicidal without Danish bases.

My suggestion is simply to make the fall of Denmark occur either at the end of the Allied turn or at the beginning of the Axis turn. In this way, Denmark can be taken and used as a base for the Norway invasion while making an Allied invasion possible but much riskier.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/2/2021 6:49:30 PM)

Denmark should be a prerequisite for Norway. How about a 1str entrenched garrison in Copenhagen when Denmark surrenders.





El_Condoro -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/2/2021 9:46:07 PM)

I think that will be defeated by a transported unit escorted by a carrier or two to deal with the entrenchment. The Germans sent a decent force into Denmark when they took it - most were in preparation for Norway but they took all the major resources within 6 hours. If Denmark falls ahead of the German turn, it would allow the Axis player to decide to what extent he wants to defend it.

I agree that the Norway DE should be dependant on the Denmark one, or that both be conflated into one DE. But until Denmark can be defended and not so easily taken by the Allies, I will be taking a No to the Denmark DE and taking it after France has fallen or leaving it completely alone, denying the Allied player an Iceland base. This is ahistorical, of course, and probably strategically impossible IRL.




The Land -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/2/2021 10:43:11 PM)

What would happen to the Norway DE if Denmark was occupied, but not by DE?

There is not much reason to wait for the Denmark event at the moment. A regular DoW followed by one attack by a tactical bomber and a paradrop achieves the same result with less cost.




El_Condoro -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/3/2021 3:20:28 AM)

Neither 643 (Axis leaning Norway) nor 644 (Allied leaning Norway) is dependent on any conditions except date (23 Mar 40) and that Kiel is in Axis hands. They could easily be changed to require an Axis/German unit in Copenhagen, which would force the German to take Denmark through DE or direct military intervention to trigger Norway. If the order of the Denmark surrender is not changed, though, the problem of Copenhagen falling into Allied hands too easily remains.

That's true but the possibility still remains that Denmark could remain neutral while Norway is invaded if the Axis player decided to. Incidentally, the Danes surrendered largely so that Copenhagen wouldn't be bombed. :)




El_Condoro -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/12/2021 12:08:50 AM)

So, this is not an issue? Allies send LR transported French unit to retake Copenhagen without a fight and no real consequence (the French will eventually be defeated, anyway), gain access to the Baltic and there is nothing the German can do about it. Norway potentially still gets invaded with Denmark in Allied hands?

Proposal:
Remove Denmark DE altogether.
Make Norway DE trigger from historical date and when Denmark has surrendered (same turn).

That gives German a chance to defend Denmark and Norway can't be taken until Denmark is in their hands.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/27/2021 11:20:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

Denmark should be a prerequisite for Norway. How about a 1str entrenched garrison in Copenhagen when Denmark surrenders.





Sorry typo I meant 10 strength



quote:

ORIGINAL: El_Condoro

So, this is not an issue? Allies send LR transported French unit to retake Copenhagen without a fight and no real consequence (the French will eventually be defeated, anyway), gain access to the Baltic and there is nothing the German can do about it. Norway potentially still gets invaded with Denmark in Allied hands?

Proposal:
Remove Denmark DE altogether.
Make Norway DE trigger from historical date and when Denmark has surrendered (same turn).

That gives German a chance to defend Denmark and Norway can't be taken until Denmark is in their hands.



Regarding the Denmark situation there is an obvious need for a correction to the game.






Tanaka -> RE: Operation Weserübung (6/27/2021 5:07:47 PM)

I agree and like these ideas. The Baltic situation could definitely be improved...




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