RE: War in the Pacific 2? (Full Version)

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fcooke -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 8:11:12 PM)

I thought a couple of years ago someone was attempting to re-write the manual - maybe Alfred? But I am getting older and the line between reality and la-la land keeps getting fuzzier....




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 8:15:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

The community could not fund a WITP2 in the first place, it would be far too expensive, especially with the features that tend to be suggested here.
Approaching Matrix with a realistic business plan could indeed work.

I don't think that we are a dying niche, there are new people coming to the game from time to time after all.
Our niche is just too small to make a lot of money with, the mainstream is where the real money in gaming lies.
Even a somewhat successful mobile game could probably make you far more money than a WITP2.
So development studios in the last couple years tended to go more mainstream to get a bigger market share.

I remember reading that Fortnite made more than 2 million dollars a day in 2018 in revenues and made a total of 1.2 billion dollars in its first 10 months after launch.
For WITP2 to make 1.2 billion dollars in revenue it would need to sell roughly 17 million copies with a unit price of 70$. With 17 million copies the game would make it in the top 100 of best-selling games in history and would be the most popular strategy game ever made. (for example Civilization 5 "only" moved 8 million copies)
Not particular realistic to happen.
Just to show the difference between niche and mainstream.


[&:]
Made? But what were the Net Profits and Gross profits? How much money can you get from me if I am not interested in what so other many people want? Maybe I am more epicurian in my tastes! I would rather have 1 of something excellent than 6 of something so-so and 12 of something that I would equate to fecal material.

There is nothing wrong with filling niches but it still has to be profitable to do so.




Maallon -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 9:18:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

The community could not fund a WITP2 in the first place, it would be far too expensive, especially with the features that tend to be suggested here.
Approaching Matrix with a realistic business plan could indeed work.

I don't think that we are a dying niche, there are new people coming to the game from time to time after all.
Our niche is just too small to make a lot of money with, the mainstream is where the real money in gaming lies.
Even a somewhat successful mobile game could probably make you far more money than a WITP2.
So development studios in the last couple years tended to go more mainstream to get a bigger market share.

I remember reading that Fortnite made more than 2 million dollars a day in 2018 in revenues and made a total of 1.2 billion dollars in its first 10 months after launch.
For WITP2 to make 1.2 billion dollars in revenue it would need to sell roughly 17 million copies with a unit price of 70$. With 17 million copies the game would make it in the top 100 of best-selling games in history and would be the most popular strategy game ever made. (for example Civilization 5 "only" moved 8 million copies)
Not particular realistic to happen.
Just to show the difference between niche and mainstream.


[&:]
Made? But what were the Net Profits and Gross profits? How much money can you get from me if I am not interested in what so other many people want? Maybe I am more epicurian in my tastes! I would rather have 1 of something excellent than 6 of something so-so and 12 of something that I would equate to fecal material.

There is nothing wrong with filling niches but it still has to be profitable to do so.


I completely agree with you and never stated anything differently! I would never exchange WITPAE for Fortnite!
The article I read only talked about revenues, it is not publicly known how much net profit or gross profit epic games made with Fortnite. At least not that I am aware of. Revenues are of course only part of the story.
Sorry English is not my first language, is "made" not the correct word in this situation?

Also there is of course nothing wrong with filling niches. What I was getting at is that it is far more lucrative to go mainstream if your main interest is money. But as I stated before: People like Gary Grigsby probably aren't doing what they do only because they are interested in the money, with their skill they could make far more money than they are making now. I already heard a lot from niche indie developers that it can be hard to resist the temptation of just picking up a normal programming job in a larger company as they would get a stable and often even higher income through this. So they do what they do because they are dedicated to what they do.
But it is not always this easy, sometimes companies go mainstream because they have to otherwise they would go bankrupt. Beeing a developer in a niche is hard and a lot of them need to take up side jobs to stay afloat throughout most of their career.
edit: And as soon your company grows and employs more people you can't stay afloat with dedication alone.
WITP is especially troublesome as, given its complexity, development cost would be high but the potential market is comparatively small, so staying profitable with a game like this will likely proof very hard.




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 9:54:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

The community could not fund a WITP2 in the first place, it would be far too expensive, especially with the features that tend to be suggested here.
Approaching Matrix with a realistic business plan could indeed work.

I don't think that we are a dying niche, there are new people coming to the game from time to time after all.
Our niche is just too small to make a lot of money with, the mainstream is where the real money in gaming lies.
Even a somewhat successful mobile game could probably make you far more money than a WITP2.
So development studios in the last couple years tended to go more mainstream to get a bigger market share.

I remember reading that Fortnite made more than 2 million dollars a day in 2018 in revenues and made a total of 1.2 billion dollars in its first 10 months after launch.
For WITP2 to make 1.2 billion dollars in revenue it would need to sell roughly 17 million copies with a unit price of 70$. With 17 million copies the game would make it in the top 100 of best-selling games in history and would be the most popular strategy game ever made. (for example Civilization 5 "only" moved 8 million copies)
Not particular realistic to happen.
Just to show the difference between niche and mainstream.


[&:]
Made? But what were the Net Profits and Gross profits? How much money can you get from me if I am not interested in what so other many people want? Maybe I am more epicurian in my tastes! I would rather have 1 of something excellent than 6 of something so-so and 12 of something that I would equate to fecal material.

There is nothing wrong with filling niches but it still has to be profitable to do so.


I completely agree with you and never stated anything differently! I would never exchange WITPAE for Fortnite!
The article I read only talked about revenues, it is not publicly known how much net profit or gross profit epic games made with Fortnite. At least not that I am aware of. Revenues are of course only part of the story.
Sorry English is not my first language, is "made" not the correct word in this situation?

Also there is of course nothing wrong with filling niches. What I was getting at is that it is far more lucrative to go mainstream if your main interest is money. But as I stated before: People like Gary Grigsby probably aren't doing what they do only because they are interested in the money, with their skill they could make far more money than they are making now. I already heard a lot from niche indie developers that it can be hard to resist the temptation of just picking up a normal programming job in a larger company as they would get a stable and often even higher income through this. So they do what they do because they are dedicated to what they do.
But it is not always this easy, sometimes companies go mainstream because they have to otherwise they would go bankrupt. Beeing a developer in a niche is hard and a lot of them need to take up side jobs to stay afloat throughout most of their career.
edit: And as soon your company grows and employs more people you can't stay afloat with dedication alone.
WITP is especially troublesome as, given its complexity, development cost would be high but the potential market is comparatively small, so staying profitable with a game like this will likely proof very hard.


Made is fine and is frequently used in such context. Made money is different if you were referring to using a printing press . . . [:-]

Yes. The game is fine now but an updated manual would be nice but it would have to be done by a team. Knowledgeable people to write certain chapters then knowledgeable people to proof read it, edit it, then the corrections which would have to be agreed upon.

You English is fine as far as I am concerned and I know that there are many people here who aren't people who have English as a first or even second language.

So, have ein gute bier [sm=00000436.gif] and relax.




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 9:57:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

I thought a couple of years ago someone was attempting to re-write the manual - maybe Alfred? But I am getting older and the line between reality and la-la land keeps getting fuzzier....


Yes, that was Alfred. I can remember that much.

But getting older is better than the alternative, at least right now . . . [8|]

Even if it is just to look . . . [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/52896/46F92659DC7D43559E20167C80F7EFCE.jpg[/image]




BBfanboy -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 10:47:15 PM)

She is obviously in distress with those twisted legs - think you can help with that?




eskuche -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 11:11:22 PM)

[:-][:-]




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 11:14:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

She is obviously in distress with those twisted legs - think you can help with that?


Of course I can. [:D]

I am free, so I won't get slapped by a different female - or worse! [X(]

Besides, I was a member of an organization or three where I was taught to help people who need it. [:'(]




fcooke -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/8/2021 11:42:27 PM)

RJ - getting older is certainly better than the alternative in my book! At least I now know I wasn't in la-la land on that one.

As for small Japanese/Asian women when I was still working I had a small team in Tokyo - about ten people...mostly women (an advantage for non-Japanese companies since sexist discrimination is still rife in Japanese companies, so we get access to a smart and motivated pool of people). Anyway, I made it a point to meet with all of them, not just my direct reports. So I'm chatting with a person who I thought was a youngster, maybe late twenties. Spoke about what she has done for the last 6 years (new hire). She tells me, and then ask her what she studied in school. She says that was a long time ago, it turns out she was in her mid forties. face plant. To this day I am not sure if she was insulted or flattered. She being Japanese (and me being retired) I will never know.....




Rusty1961 -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/9/2021 1:06:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maallon

The community could not fund a WITP2 in the first place, it would be far too expensive, especially with the features that tend to be suggested here.
Approaching Matrix with a realistic business plan could indeed work.

I don't think that we are a dying niche, there are new people coming to the game from time to time after all.
Our niche is just too small to make a lot of money with, the mainstream is where the real money in gaming lies.
Even a somewhat successful mobile game could probably make you far more money than a WITP2.
So development studios in the last couple years tended to go more mainstream to get a bigger market share.

I remember reading that Fortnite made more than 2 million dollars a day in 2018 in revenues and made a total of 1.2 billion dollars in its first 10 months after launch.
For WITP2 to make 1.2 billion dollars in revenue it would need to sell roughly 17 million copies with a unit price of 70$. With 17 million copies the game would make it in the top 100 of best-selling games in history and would be the most popular strategy game ever made. (for example Civilization 5 "only" moved 8 million copies)
Not particular realistic to happen.
Just to show the difference between niche and mainstream.


[&:]
Made? But what were the Net Profits and Gross profits? How much money can you get from me if I am not interested in what so other many people want? Maybe I am more epicurian in my tastes! I would rather have 1 of something excellent than 6 of something so-so and 12 of something that I would equate to fecal material.

There is nothing wrong with filling niches but it still has to be profitable to do so.



It's funny how for someone who professes to dislike these threads you appear to be the biggest gadfly for said thread.

Funny that...




Ian R -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 12:53:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

The last time we had a WITP 2 go-around, Alfred participated and downplayed any likelihood of a new version happening. Nothing unusual about that.
However...

At the end of the thread, he made a cryptic post that said something to the effect of:

Matrix Games is open to listening to serious offers.

Obviously I am paraphrasing here as I can't find the thread, but my reaction reading it at the time was WTF??

Perhaps he will drop by and enlighten us as to what he meant by his statement at the time. I was too frustrated at the thread to bother replying weeks later when I finally saw his reply, so it ended.
Personally, I think it would take a new development studio with another scope statement on the pacific war. But, as others mentioned, perhaps we, good wargamers, are just a dying niche that can't hope to compete with the new "Fortnite" world.

As the couple on HGTV loves to say... "How do we eat a whale? One bite at a time."
One can dream I guess.


Six figures right side of the decimal. You need to pay a talented coder to work on it 40 hrs/week for two years.




fcooke -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 1:38:53 PM)

And that swastika leans left not right.




Ian R -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 1:57:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And that swastika leans left not right.


Yes, your other right.[;)]




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 2:01:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

The last time we had a WITP 2 go-around, Alfred participated and downplayed any likelihood of a new version happening. Nothing unusual about that.
However...

At the end of the thread, he made a cryptic post that said something to the effect of:

Matrix Games is open to listening to serious offers.

Obviously I am paraphrasing here as I can't find the thread, but my reaction reading it at the time was WTF??

Perhaps he will drop by and enlighten us as to what he meant by his statement at the time. I was too frustrated at the thread to bother replying weeks later when I finally saw his reply, so it ended.
Personally, I think it would take a new development studio with another scope statement on the pacific war. But, as others mentioned, perhaps we, good wargamers, are just a dying niche that can't hope to compete with the new "Fortnite" world.

As the couple on HGTV loves to say... "How do we eat a whale? One bite at a time."
One can dream I guess.


Six figures right side of the decimal. You need to pay a talented coder to work on it 40 hrs/week for two years.


Actually, to the left of the decimal, you do not want just fractions of the base monetary unit, you need many thousands of multiples of the base monetary unit.




fcooke -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 2:05:09 PM)

Is that the right to drink a beer? I know it is a tad early before noon.




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 2:14:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Is that the right to drink a beer? I know it is a tad early before noon.


It is never to early to drink bier. It is much better than some waters even if it comes from a municipal system. One half percent alcohol is enough to kill the bad bugs that cause things like Cholera and Typhoid in the bad water.




BBfanboy -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 2:57:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And that swastika leans left not right.

The figure RJ posted probably pre-dates the Nazi swastika - a "good luck" symbol that goes back centuries. The look of the coat of arms RJ posted says "Poland" or other Eastern European royalty to me. He is trolling the people who accuse him of being a Nazi sympathizer just because he speaks German - my take on it. At that point it is time to stop the cycle of flaming. [:-]




Ian R -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 3:36:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moltrey

The last time we had a WITP 2 go-around, Alfred participated and downplayed any likelihood of a new version happening. Nothing unusual about that.
However...

At the end of the thread, he made a cryptic post that said something to the effect of:

Matrix Games is open to listening to serious offers.

Obviously I am paraphrasing here as I can't find the thread, but my reaction reading it at the time was WTF??

Perhaps he will drop by and enlighten us as to what he meant by his statement at the time. I was too frustrated at the thread to bother replying weeks later when I finally saw his reply, so it ended.
Personally, I think it would take a new development studio with another scope statement on the pacific war. But, as others mentioned, perhaps we, good wargamers, are just a dying niche that can't hope to compete with the new "Fortnite" world.

As the couple on HGTV loves to say... "How do we eat a whale? One bite at a time."
One can dream I guess.


Six figures right side of the decimal. You need to pay a talented coder to work on it 40 hrs/week for two years.


Actually, to the left of the decimal, you do not want just fractions of the base monetary unit, you need many thousands of multiples of the base monetary unit.


Yes, that right side of the decimal.




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 5:15:02 PM)

Here is another thread with some problems note:

WitP II?

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3830837




Yaab -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 6:19:46 PM)

Can't DOD finance this game? Can't Congress legislate that WITP:AE 2 is a national heritage or something? Get Nicholas Cage to promote this new national treasure?




fcooke -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 6:35:41 PM)

That was good Yaab. I liked the reference to National Treasure......




Rusty1961 -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/11/2021 10:59:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And that swastika leans left not right.

The figure RJ posted probably pre-dates the Nazi swastika - a "good luck" symbol that goes back centuries. The look of the coat of arms RJ posted says "Poland" or other Eastern European royalty to me. He is trolling the people who accuse him of being a Nazi sympathizer just because he speaks German - my take on it. At that point it is time to stop the cycle of flaming. [:-]


[:-]




Maallon -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/12/2021 7:48:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

And that swastika leans left not right.

The figure RJ posted probably pre-dates the Nazi swastika - a "good luck" symbol that goes back centuries. The look of the coat of arms RJ posted says "Poland" or other Eastern European royalty to me. He is trolling the people who accuse him of being a Nazi sympathizer just because he speaks German - my take on it. At that point it is time to stop the cycle of flaming. [:-]


Yes you are right, the swastika was already widely used before the Nazis took it for their flag and it was mainly a good luck symbol. In all honesty it's not that elaborate of a symbol and invented by a lot of cultures worldwide independently.
The key difference is that the Nazis have rotated it to the left by 45 degrees and only that symbol, with the black swastika and white background, is actually a symbol of national socialism.
But after the Nazis did their "stuff" the swastika fell quickly out of style no matter how it was rotated.




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/12/2021 11:50:32 AM)

Some more:

"Will there ever be a sequel to WITP? "

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3859139

"WitP II?"

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3830837




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/12/2021 1:15:17 PM)

your dreams about witp 2 :)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3503529




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/12/2021 7:32:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Can't DOD finance this game? Can't Congress legislate that WITP:AE 2 is a national heritage or something? Get Nicholas Cage to promote this new national treasure?


Please keep the politics and the politicians out of this game.




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/12/2021 9:32:39 PM)

This is the thread about the PDF manual revision:

AE PDF Manual Revision

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3689581&mpage=1&key=

But there were updates after this date.




rustysi -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/13/2021 6:38:56 PM)

quote:

AE PDF Manual Revision


AFAIK that never materialized. Correct?




RangerJoe -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/13/2021 7:09:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

AE PDF Manual Revision


AFAIK that never materialized. Correct?


Correct.

But now you know another reason why he is so knowledgeable and can cite the manual fairly well.

Did you read that thread?




rustysi -> RE: War in the Pacific 2? (6/14/2021 9:11:57 PM)

quote:

Did you read that thread?


I read it all when it was going on back in the day.




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