Spying and Intelligence. (Full Version)

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stormbringer3 -> Spying and Intelligence. (4/22/2021 6:11:59 PM)

I've read the old threads and I'm still not sure if I should invest in this for Italy and Russia.
Thanks for any opinions.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/22/2021 6:59:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

I've read the old threads and I'm still not sure if I should invest in this for Italy and Russia.
Thanks for any opinions.



NO S&I Italy & SU

High Priority for GB, GER & USA




stormbringer3 -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/22/2021 7:10:34 PM)

Thanks.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/22/2021 7:14:49 PM)

np

Basically you just don't want your opponents S&I higher than yours because then they will research faster, you won't research slower. So if one of your countries S&I is equal to your opponents your all set. Italy & SU don't have the MPPs to invest early in the race to 3.




El_Condoro -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/22/2021 8:36:12 PM)

So, USA does not benefit from UK S&I? I thought they did, so this is an important revelation for me.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/23/2021 11:30:02 AM)

I invest early in S&I for GB & US because at times GB doesn't have the MPPs to spare or the US may get a breakthrough. US only benefits from GB S&I in that Germany doesn't research faster. There are a few threads a couple years back that discusses S&I, Breakthroughs, Catch ups & Research sharing in detail which is very important to understand. I started a thread that summarizes some of these topics. I'll try to find it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

I've re-read the relevant section in the Manual regarding Spying and Intelligence, and I can see how it might not be as clear as it should be.

Essentially Spying and Intelligence helps you if you are ahead of your opponent and matching levels negate each other, which is what this line in the Manual is trying to suggest:

Each new level of Spying & Intelligence increases
your own research bonus by 1% and decreases
your opponent’s bonus by 1%.


This just means if let's say the UK has S&I Level-1 then it would have a 1% bonus, but if Germany also has Level-1, then the UK no longer has a 1% bonus, and neither would Germany have a 1% bonus, they essentially cancel each other out.

But if you are ahead of your opponent, then your opponent's bonus is simply reduced to 0% and does not further reduce their per turn base research % progression. This would be the relevant section suggesting this, albeit from the opposite point of view, but it goes both ways:

If the enemy’s
intelligence level is higher than yours, then it will
just negate your own Spying & Intelligence. It won’t
reduce your per turn base research % progression.


Further examples:

- UK has Level-2, Germany has Level-1, then only the UK would have a 1% bonus (Germany would have a 0% bonus)
- UK has Level-3, Germany has Level-1, then only the UK would have a 2% bonus (Germany would have a 0% bonus)
- UK, USA, USSR have Level-3, Germany has Level-2, then the UK, USA and USSR would all have a 1% bonus (Germany would have a 0% bonus)







PvtBenjamin -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/23/2021 11:30:39 AM)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4662952&mpage=1&key=Research�

not sure if any of this changed.







Mithrilotter -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/23/2021 11:29:52 PM)

Is it truly not worthwhile for the Soviet Union not to invest one point in Spying and Intelligence?

The manual says "... once you have reached 45% towards level 1, 1 chit @ 5% gives you a 5% chance every turn that you might achieve a Research Breakthrough and attain the next level." The manual also says that " Spying & Intelligence can also increase the chance of a breakthrough after the 45% threshold has been crossed."

The Soviets have so much to research that increasing the chance of a breakthrough seems useful.




Platoonist -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/23/2021 11:48:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mithrilotter



The manual says "... once you have reached 45% towards level 1, 1 chit @ 5% gives you a 5% chance every turn that you might achieve a Research Breakthrough and attain the next level." The manual also says that " Spying & Intelligence can also increase the chance of a breakthrough after the 45% threshold has been crossed."

The Soviets have so much to research that increasing the chance of a breakthrough seems useful.



The intelligence breakthrough aspect of the game was changed with in the 1.16.00 patch. Sadly, the existing manual is out of date in many respects.

[image]local://upfiles/9147/92E97D7BD79A428082D8DC3475B1CA08.jpg[/image]




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/24/2021 12:07:59 PM)

The manual was vague on how S&I works. The topic is addressed thoroughly in earlier threads.

SU having level one S&I (if Germany equal or higher) didn't increase breakthrough chances prior to the breakthrough changes or after.

From an earlier thread [:)]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mithrilotter

My understanding is that having at least one level in Spying and Intelligence grants the possibility of a breakthrough after achieving a 30% advance in any particular area. Therefore, I always make sure that the Soviet Union achieves at least one level in Spying and Intelligence so that all other research might get lucky at 30% and beyond and progress faster. Otherwise, to my knowledge, all research has to progress to 100% to get an advancement.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

This is 100% incorrect. I suggest rereading the appropriate threads.




quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

quote:

S&I differentials just change the amount of the breakthrough.



Ahh You are correct


Higher S&I differentials just increase the chance of the breakthrough.





Mithrilotter -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/25/2021 11:07:25 PM)

Thank you. I will have the Soviets invest in something else.




OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/26/2021 6:57:20 AM)

[&:]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

The intelligence breakthrough aspect of the game was changed with in the 1.16.00 patch. Sadly, the existing manual is out of date in many respects.

[image]local://upfiles/9147/92E97D7BD79A428082D8DC3475B1CA08.jpg[/image]


Hmmmm. This explains a few things....[sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]




Tanaka -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/26/2021 9:43:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

[&:]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

The intelligence breakthrough aspect of the game was changed with in the 1.16.00 patch. Sadly, the existing manual is out of date in many respects.

[image]local://upfiles/9147/92E97D7BD79A428082D8DC3475B1CA08.jpg[/image]


Hmmmm. This explains a few things....[sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]


Is this and other research rules the same in all games in the series? The WW1 game research seems so different...




BillRunacre -> RE: Spying and Intelligence. (4/27/2021 9:00:30 AM)

Yes, that is the same as the 45% threshold for a breakthrough was removed from all the games (or may have never existed in the more recent ones).




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