Map faults and changes that need addressing? (Full Version)

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Andrew Brown -> Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/5/2021 3:49:52 AM)

Wow - still a bit of interest in this games after quite a few years! I have a question for all - are there any issues with the current map that need fixing, or updating? Either the standard map or the 'extended' (for DaBigBabes) map? I am working on an updated scenario for my own use based on DBB after a long time away from WitP-AE, and I am looking at any potential map issues as part of that. Thanks.




Kull -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/5/2021 4:13:11 AM)

Nice to see "the original map guy" checking in! You might take a look at the new Scenarios released by AndyMac. He's added quite a few new bases as part of his effort to improve the workings of the AI. Burma in particular is now a bear to defend against Japan AI.




Trugrit -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/5/2021 2:28:25 PM)


You might also take a look at the B-Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/bigbsshipyard/b-mod-ae

I don't know what you have in mind for your scenario but
the B-Mod may save you some time.

I believe the Andy Mac additions were included.
The Read me explains the changes made.
The art work is great as well.

In my humble opinion the B-Mod is currently the most historical
Full war Mod available for this game.






Dili -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/5/2021 11:17:32 PM)

lack of bases for airfields in Mongolia,USSR.




LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 11:29:31 AM)

Maybe reworking the Central Solomons to squeeze-in Kolombangara and Rendova?




[image]local://upfiles/1313/6785B736DF174FA890C503F35883332B.jpg[/image]




Dutch_slith -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 11:40:51 AM)

Rename Manado to Menado

[image]local://upfiles/17465/16DB125D3BE4480B874E28932E22BF5F.jpg[/image]




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 12:36:41 PM)

Thanks. I will definitely take a look. I prefer adding bases only when necessary, but I am already adding a few where I think they are needed, such as to terminate branch railway lines. I am also planning to tweak the AI a bit, which I have never done before.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 12:47:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


You might also take a look at the B-Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/bigbsshipyard/b-mod-ae

I don't know what you have in mind for your scenario but
the B-Mod may save you some time.

I believe the Andy Mac additions were included.
The Read me explains the changes made.
The art work is great as well.

In my humble opinion the B-Mod is currently the most historical
Full war Mod available for this game.


I remember taking a look at the B-mod a while ago. I will take another look for sure. I am working on collecting some of the great art as well.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 12:59:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Maybe reworking the Central Solomons to squeeze-in Kolombangara and Rendova?



Interesting. At first glance it looks like these are both within hex 111,134.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 1:01:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

lack of bases for airfields in Mongolia,USSR.


That area is a bit sparse as far as bases goes. I will have to take a look.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 1:02:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Rename Manado to Menado



I have seen both spellings. Is there a definite correct spelling from the Dutch point of view?




SuluSea -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/6/2021 4:17:19 PM)

Great to see you around Andrew. I still enjoy your W.I.F. style map.




HansBolter -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 12:26:45 AM)

Here is one.

Rails, and I am pretty sure roads as well, don't match the map artwork.

[image]local://upfiles/21458/7D2B2517F4BF4227B1AADD9B72C1496D.jpg[/image]




Nomad -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 3:03:24 AM)

Which map are you using Hans? I looked at both the stock map and the extended map and neither one looks like your picture.




Dutch_slith -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 9:39:43 AM)

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.




Alfred -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 9:58:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.


That is a trap for the unwary.

Personally I'm in favour of using the names used in December 1941 but it is easy to not pick up the modern name has been slipped in.

Alfred




Hrafnagud -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 10:35:54 AM)

I agree. It's a historical war game. Numerous place names changed from 1941 to today. Do we change Rangoon to Yangon? Port Arthur to Lushunkou? Canton to Guangzhou?




LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 11:15:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Maybe reworking the Central Solomons to squeeze-in Kolombangara and Rendova?



Interesting. At first glance it looks like these are both within hex 111,134.


Yes. As you can see in my screenshot, I took some liberties in regards to distances and relative positions of the Central Solomons in order to squeeze-in the historical bases for gameplay reasons. Now PT-109 can be based at Rendova in order to get sunk near Kolombangara [:D]




HansBolter -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 11:23:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Which map are you using Hans? I looked at both the stock map and the extended map and neither one looks like your picture.


Would have to do some research to know for sure. Loaded it a long time ago.

It's loaded into my DBB based game mods folder and I am using full stacking limits everywhere pwhex file.







HansBolter -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 11:26:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.


That is a trap for the unwary.

Personally I'm in favour of using the names used in December 1941 but it is easy to not pick up the modern name has been slipped in.

Alfred



I have never really understood why all those names I learned and memorized as a kid had to change.

It still feels like some kind of dirty trick.

Is Peking Duck still called Peking Duck or has it also been renamed Beijing(sp?) Duck.




mind_messing -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 12:11:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.


That is a trap for the unwary.

Personally I'm in favour of using the names used in December 1941 but it is easy to not pick up the modern name has been slipped in.

Alfred



I have never really understood why all those names I learned and memorized as a kid had to change.

It still feels like some kind of dirty trick.



Political motivation tends to be a large driver of geographic name change.

With China in particular, it's due to the fact that the early translation efforts varied wildly between using the Cantonese dialect and Mandarin which led to some odd Romanisation.




Alfred -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 1:12:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.


That is a trap for the unwary.

Personally I'm in favour of using the names used in December 1941 but it is easy to not pick up the modern name has been slipped in.

Alfred



I have never really understood why all those names I learned and memorized as a kid had to change.

It still feels like some kind of dirty trick.



Political motivation tends to be a large driver of geographic name change.

With China in particular, it's due to the fact that the early translation efforts varied wildly between using the Cantonese dialect and Mandarin which led to some odd Romanisation.


All name changes are politically driven.

When it comes to altering the English name of a foreign location, there are two different rationales. One is acceptable to me, the other I have an extremely strong dislike and will not adopt.

The acceptable rationale is when the foreign location has decided for its own domestic reasons, to change. An example is St Petersburg (the Russian one, not the Florida one). Changed in 1914 to the Russian version because of the war with Germany. Changed after the Revolution to Leningrad to honour Lenin. Then back to St Petersburg after the end of Communist rule. All of course written in the Cyrillic alphabet. Another exemplar being Tsaritsyn to Stalingrad to Volgograd. Local decisions with no lecturing to other countries what they had to call these cities.

The unacceptable rationale is when a foreign country has the gall to demand that only their version is acceptable. These are always an exercise in naked power. So Peking to Beijing, Rangoon to Yangoon is nothing but an imposition. We don't call Rome Roma, or Florence Firenze, or Prague Praha, and more importantly the locals don't correct an english speaker when they don't use the local domestic name.

It is quite revealing that in most instances, the locals don't use the renames. This is particularly noticeable when you speak to Indians. I've come across a lot of Indians and almost without exception they still refer to Bombay, Madras and Calcutta. Understandable when you hear their explanation of the stupid domestic politicians who in their fervour to demonstrate decisiveness have made false claims that the renames represent the original names. Madras is s good example. It was never known as Chennai in the local language.

When we all agree that going to Venezia for Carnevale would be fun, or its time to have some Deutsch bier at Bayern, then and only then will I consider calling Canton Guangzhou. Until then I'm not kowtowing.

Alfred




GetAssista -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 2:18:20 PM)

Since I am Russian, I have some issues with Russian names :D
Both name and map artwork:
Kysyl -> Kyzyl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyzyl
Kyaktah -> Kyakhta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyakhta
Spassk-Dalniy -> Spassk-Dalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spassk-Dalny but this one is not really important, can go either way
Petrovskiy -> Petrovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrovsk-Zabaykalsky_(town)
Choybalsan -> Choibalsan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choibalsan_(city)

Also there might be errors left in the map artwork for Krasnoyarsk, Sovetskaya Gavan. The names in the stock1 DB are correct




Dutch_slith -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/7/2021 4:26:24 PM)

Part of the road is missing

[image]local://upfiles/17465/03AF49E8B3A74C97BB129C768B5DCD58.jpg[/image]




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/11/2021 10:45:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Which map are you using Hans? I looked at both the stock map and the extended map and neither one looks like your picture.


I checked as well and it does look like the map in Hans' screenshot is modified from the stock map.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/11/2021 10:51:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Menado is the colonial spelling, Manado the indonesian one.


Maybe, but I have seen both spellings in historic maps (like here). Happy to look at further maps to verify though.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/11/2021 10:54:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Yes. As you can see in my screenshot, I took some liberties in regards to distances and relative positions of the Central Solomons in order to squeeze-in the historical bases for gameplay reasons. Now PT-109 can be based at Rendova in order to get sunk near Kolombangara [:D]


I could be persuaded to do some map manipulation to nudge Rendova into its own hex (it is currently on the hex border).




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/11/2021 11:04:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Since I am Russian, I have some issues with Russian names :D
Both name and map artwork:
Kysyl -> Kyzyl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyzyl
Kyaktah -> Kyakhta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyakhta
Spassk-Dalniy -> Spassk-Dalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spassk-Dalny but this one is not really important, can go either way
Petrovskiy -> Petrovsk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrovsk-Zabaykalsky_(town)
Choybalsan -> Choibalsan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choibalsan_(city)

Also there might be errors left in the map artwork for Krasnoyarsk, Sovetskaya Gavan. The names in the stock1 DB are correct


Thanks! I will chase these up and fix them.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/11/2021 11:06:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Part of the road is missing

[image]local://upfiles/17465/03AF49E8B3A74C97BB129C768B5DCD58.jpg[/image]


I am guessing that is behind the name, but I will check.




GetAssista -> RE: Map faults and changes that need addressing? (4/11/2021 8:50:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

Part of the road is missing

[image]local://upfiles/17465/03AF49E8B3A74C97BB129C768B5DCD58.jpg[/image]


I am guessing that is behind the name, but I will check.

There supposed to be no rail there behind Nanking name, map art is in line with map data. So everything is fine




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