Supply Air Drop options and Depots (Full Version)

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guctony -> Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 10:31:27 AM)

I don't know if it is mentioned before but is below options increase air drop efficiency and if they are possible

1) Supply Air drop to a unit when there is Air HQ or Army HQ at the Hex
2) Supply Air drop to a unit when it is on Airfield Hex
3) All above together
4) Supply Air drop to a Depot Directly
5) Supply Air drop or Transfer to hex with Depot Air HQ and Unit and Air Base
6) Air drop to a Airborne unit with para HQ if available
7) Para Landing to enemy Air Base then Air drop to Hex
8) Is it possible to create depot to an isolated Air Base Hex.
9) Air drop to a Super Depot
10) Also is it possible to air Drop to my House :) ;) :)

By the way I am assuming when playing Theatre box option is on it will be possible to transfer German Parachute army and units to transfer East.




821Bobo -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 10:38:58 AM)

It is possible to drop on unit directly without airfield but it is ineffective, most of the freight will be lost. Best is to drop on airfield, unit doesn't need to be present there and supply will be distributed among units in neighboring hexes(or to the airfield or depot if there).




RedLancer -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 11:35:34 AM)

@ guctony

I think you are in danger of making connections that aren't there:

- As 821Bobo has said the air transport of freight to an airfield is much better than air drop to a unit.
- The presence of an HQ provides no bonuses to air resupply. HQs do play a role in ground resupply by boosting depot capacity. It is worth elaborating in that in air resupply you are effectively pushing freight into a depot. For ground resupply it is pulling in freight to fill to capacity.
- If a depot is in the receiving hex then it gets the freight. If not a temporary depot is created where the freight is held until it is distributed. Freight distribution can occur at various times and not just in the logistic phase.




guctony -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 12:06:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

@ guctony

I think you are in danger of making connections that aren't there:

- As 821Bobo has said the air transport of freight to an airfield is much better than air drop to a unit.
- The presence of an HQ provides no bonuses to air resupply. HQs do play a role in ground resupply by boosting depot capacity. It is worth elaborating in that in air resupply you are effectively pushing freight into a depot. For ground resupply it is pulling in freight to fill to capacity.
- If a depot is in the receiving hex then it gets the freight. If not a temporary depot is created where the freight is held until it is distributed. Freight distribution can occur at various times and not just in the logistic phase.


Sorry if my message is a bit confusing.

I like to understand dynamics of supply options out of regular supply and ferry conditions.
I mean Lets say I advance Panzer units beyond their supply reach and Try to supply by air drops. How to maximize my supply drop capacity is the actual question.
Also if I make a large para drop how much efficiently I can supply is the second question. I know large para drop actions in the East are useless historically and by game play. But once in 1944 large para drops are interesting in Romania, Hungarian area for some fun.
Also imagine if I transfer full para drop units and air Transport from West and used in Stalingrad deadlock. One hex is all that it matters.
And Lastly how can we benefit from supply system updates in WITE2 in terms of an inevitable Stalingrad situation. I mean If I am not wrong in WITE there was an update where as long as you can air supply ground units they did not considered fully surrounded.

I am going the buy the Game the day it comes out and already start practicing in WITW and WITE. but each time I play them my imagination start to work.




loki100 -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 1:03:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guctony


quote:

ORIGINAL: RedLancer

@ guctony

I think you are in danger of making connections that aren't there:

- As 821Bobo has said the air transport of freight to an airfield is much better than air drop to a unit.
- The presence of an HQ provides no bonuses to air resupply. HQs do play a role in ground resupply by boosting depot capacity. It is worth elaborating in that in air resupply you are effectively pushing freight into a depot. For ground resupply it is pulling in freight to fill to capacity.
- If a depot is in the receiving hex then it gets the freight. If not a temporary depot is created where the freight is held until it is distributed. Freight distribution can occur at various times and not just in the logistic phase.


Sorry if my message is a bit confusing.

I like to understand dynamics of supply options out of regular supply and ferry conditions.
I mean Lets say I advance Panzer units beyond their supply reach and Try to supply by air drops. How to maximize my supply drop capacity is the actual question.
Also if I make a large para drop how much efficiently I can supply is the second question. I know large para drop actions in the East are useless historically and by game play. But once in 1944 large para drops are interesting in Romania, Hungarian area for some fun.
Also imagine if I transfer full para drop units and air Transport from West and used in Stalingrad deadlock. One hex is all that it matters.
And Lastly how can we benefit from supply system updates in WITE2 in terms of an inevitable Stalingrad situation. I mean If I am not wrong in WITE there was an update where as long as you can air supply ground units they did not considered fully surrounded.

I am going the buy the Game the day it comes out and already start practicing in WITW and WITE. but each time I play them my imagination start to work.




1 - if you are going to air drop supply (and the mechanics are much easier than in WiTE1/W), to maximise delivery aim for a hex with an airbase. That is key. The supply will then be dispersed to nearby units or existing depots

2 - neither side have the air transport assets for anything large scale. I reckon I could drop 3 (maybe) 4 Soviet airborne brigades in a turn but struggle to go beyond 2. So they become a tool for something very specific (like if say Slovakia changes sides and you can't get the Red Army into ground contact) rather than a standard part of operational planning (as with the Western Allies)

3 - if you air drop > 500 tons of supplies to isolated hexes then some of the bad effects of isolation are mitigated (& of course the units have more supply as a result). So a siege akin to that of 6 Army is perfectly feasible and the Soviets can supply a bypassed city - again retaining control of the airbases in the pocket is what really matters here

4 - in general air supply is a nice bonus but not much of a replacement to conventional supply in WiTE2. Again mainly as neither side have the assets that the Western Allies possess.




RedLancer -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 1:26:05 PM)

And Lastly how can we benefit from supply system updates in WITE2 in terms of an inevitable Stalingrad situation.

...by understanding the rules and playing well. The screenshot is an amalgam of one of our Test AARs of Stalingard to Berlin between Randy (scenario author) and Chris. At one point Randy flew 2,127 tons of freight into the pocket to keep it going.



[image]local://upfiles/18789/D7E55A482BE242D6AAA8DCA517DE9E7D.jpg[/image]




guctony -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 2:37:41 PM)

it will be great to have a simplified drop system. and 8 week of survival in Stalingrad is also very promising.




RedLancer -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/17/2021 2:43:42 PM)

...longer than 8 weeks - it was surrounded on Turn 1.




keitherson -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/18/2021 7:13:37 AM)

By turn 6, since he lost the airfield, wouldn't it make sense for the Germans to retreat to the more defensible city itself in one of those new city-fortress units because of the rules about not having anywhere to retreat to in isolated hexes? Seems like a waste to leave them in the open where they can be destroyed one by one. Or is that what he did and the UI is just showing the motorized unit over top of the city-fortress?




RedLancer -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/18/2021 8:01:13 AM)

On T6 two airfields are still held and I don't think Randy used a City Fort. What isn't shown as well are the depots - holding those too is key.




guctony -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/18/2021 8:31:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: keitherson

By turn 6, since he lost the airfield, wouldn't it make sense for the Germans to retreat to the more defensible city itself in one of those new city-fortress units because of the rules about not having anywhere to retreat to in isolated hexes? Seems like a waste to leave them in the open where they can be destroyed one by one. Or is that what he did and the UI is just showing the motorized unit over top of the city-fortress?

I guess by occupying's large areas you can force Russian to commit larger forces for mop up operations. If you retreat to City forts too early or to a smaller perimeter more Russian units will be free to go around. And no place to retreat means faster Routing or Shattering.

I think City Forts will become more handy in Port cities For Germans for Baltic cities and for Odessa in 1943-44.




loki100 -> RE: Supply Air Drop options and Depots (2/18/2021 9:18:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: keitherson

By turn 6, since he lost the airfield, wouldn't it make sense for the Germans to retreat to the more defensible city itself in one of those new city-fortress units because of the rules about not having anywhere to retreat to in isolated hexes? Seems like a waste to leave them in the open where they can be destroyed one by one. Or is that what he did and the UI is just showing the motorized unit over top of the city-fortress?


worth also noting the images don't show in-hex fortification levels, if I recall the scenario set up gives the German level 3 fortifications within that perimeter.

also the Soviet forces are painfully weak at the start reflecting the losses in the Stalingrad fighting

but as with the other comments, if the axis player abandons the airfields and the existing depots the end will come much quicker as the full isolation penalties will apply (its unlikely you can manage the 500 tons of supply dropped if your target is not an airbase

edit - here is how the scenario opens (FoW off0, so Randy basically defended his well fortified perimeter:



[image]local://upfiles/43256/548A4341F4684149A6FDE40A323597D7.jpg[/image]




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