Thought About Getting This Game..... (Full Version)

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Zemke -> Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/25/2021 2:31:07 PM)

I have been looking at this game for some time, but not sure if I would like it or not. Maybe the community can answer some questions or give their thoughts based on what I like or prefer.

1. Does this game model ground forces, and if so major commitment of ground forces, like the 2003 Iraq invasion or perhaps a hypothetical invasion of Iran? (This is pretty much a must-have for me BTW.)
2. Favorite Operational wargames: The current War in the East, wanting anxiously for the new War in the East2 however, and War in the Pacific:AE.
3. Favorite tactical Wargames: Combat Mission...all of them.




thewood1 -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/25/2021 2:40:07 PM)

Ground warfare is simulated, but not in way WitE or CM model it. You can set up some limited ground combat, it won't have the logistical detail of WitE or tactical detail of a CM. If detailed air and naval combat across 70 decades with every significant ship and plane, with ground combat recognized as a more limited aspect, its for you. If you are expecting the same level of detail on an M1A2 SEP3 as on an F-16C Block 52, you'll be disappointed.




1nutworld -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/25/2021 5:06:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

I have been looking at this game for some time, but not sure if I would like it or not. Maybe the community can answer some questions or give their thoughts based on what I like or prefer.

1. Does this game model ground forces, and if so major commitment of ground forces, like the 2003 Iraq invasion or perhaps a hypothetical invasion of Iran? (This is pretty much a must-have for me BTW.)
2. Favorite Operational wargames: The current War in the East, wanting anxiously for the new War in the East2 however, and War in the Pacific:AE.
3. Favorite tactical Wargames: Combat Mission...all of them.



Air Force and Naval Units are favored in CMO, original title: Command: Modern Air Naval Operations. So while there has been significant improvement on Land Warfare,and many different units added to that effect, using this as an example- Air Speed measured in Knots, Surface unit and Underwater unit speed, also measured in knots. So, same goes for ground units that you control - it takes some getting used to to measure distance on Land in Nautical Miles and speed of a ground unit measured in knots.

While CMO is a spectacular game, the emphasis on Air and Naval units is the key thing to remember even with the simulation name change to Command: Modern Operations. The weakness of the sim is ground warfare, but as I stated to the developers credit, land/ground warfare has improved as time has passed from initial release.


Based on what you have stated are your preferences, this game while something you could probably enjoy, likely won't thrill you with its current limitations.





Zemke -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/25/2021 8:20:19 PM)

Thanks very much for the input. Got to have my Operational Ground forces.




kevinkins -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/25/2021 9:23:34 PM)

Hi Zemke ... don't give up on CMO due its ground warfare model. It is exceptional at being able to wargame engagements that we had or will have in the news. This is generally called Strike Warfare via air and naval forces. A savvy designer can use ground warfare within the game to augment the scenario. But this product is not Combat Mission, nor any sim dedicated to ground combat. If you are into wargaming, you will love this product. It forces you to learn and think. Many of us play this sim and separately ground warfare games. There is really none that effectively combines everything into one sim in 2021. The CMO tutorials are so good they are worth the price of admission on their own.

Kevin




Dimitris -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/26/2021 4:27:50 PM)

You can read details on what is modelled, and what is not, here: https://www.warfaresims.com/?page_id=2920#411
And here: https://www.warfaresims.com/?p=4982




BeirutDude -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (1/30/2021 11:05:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

Thanks very much for the input. Got to have my Operational Ground forces.


So, for what it is worth, I was a Beta Tester and scenario designer for CS:ME and Flashpoint and these days spend all of my time and energies here. Love those other games, but find the detail here to be incredible. Armored Brigade (AB) might be more to your liking. Personally, I played AB a lot when it came out but, again, spend my time here these days.




SeaQueen -> RE: Thought About Getting This Game..... (2/1/2021 4:31:16 PM)

The emphasis is on air and naval forces. You can set up some cool tank battles, and experiment with the integration of artillery and air power, for example, but I wouldn't take the results of any ground battles too seriously. It's the wrong place to go if you wanted to do something like reproduce The Battle of the Sinai, for example.

2003 Iraq invasion would probably be the wrong scope, but what I might do is isolate individual battles or strikes. Similarly, an invasion of Iran is also too broad, but a complex strike on a nuclear facility or ballistic missile defense of one of the APODs or SPODs would be perfect.

The emphasis in CMO/CMANO is on precision strike, stealth, and sensors. Ground forces are mostly just targets (although they can be moving targets, and they do shoot back). They're modelled at the platoon or smaller level, which suggests a very tactical degree of control. At the kind of levels you're thinking about, you're painting with a broader brush. CMO/CMANO is about building the kill chain, sensor to shooter, geometry, distances, timing (people fail to appreciate how much seconds count in CMO/CMANO), synchronization, coordination and hitting targets. When I'm building my game plan, the strikers in a strike package might be only 4 aircraft, but supporting it might be dozens of SEAD and OCA aircraft, electronic warfare, ELINT, drones, and other ISR platforms. I'm going to coordinate that with cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. To be successful you need to get the right effects at the right time in the right place. If you want to do a more broad campaign, break it up into pieces and look at individual vignettes within it. You'll find it much more satisfying and easier to realize the full depth of the game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zemke

I have been looking at this game for some time, but not sure if I would like it or not. Maybe the community can answer some questions or give their thoughts based on what I like or prefer.

1. Does this game model ground forces, and if so major commitment of ground forces, like the 2003 Iraq invasion or perhaps a hypothetical invasion of Iran? (This is pretty much a must-have for me BTW.)
2. Favorite Operational wargames: The current War in the East, wanting anxiously for the new War in the East2 however, and War in the Pacific:AE.
3. Favorite tactical Wargames: Combat Mission...all of them.

quote:

Ground warfare is simulated, but not in way WitE or CM model it. You can set up some limited ground combat, it won't have the logistical detail of WitE or tactical detail of a CM. If detailed air and naval combat across 70 decades with every significant ship and plane, with ground combat recognized as a more limited aspect, its for you. If you are expecting the same level of detail on an M1A2 SEP3 as on an F-16C Block 52, you'll be disappointed.




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