Bulgaria not joining (Full Version)

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Chernobyl -> Bulgaria not joining (1/21/2021 11:54:47 PM)

So I playtested a Serbia defense game. Bulgaria got to 89% and then Serbia surrendered. Or maybe they were at 84% then got to 89%. Not sure what the increments were, but Bulgaria has been at 89% since at least June 1915 and now it is November and Bulgaria still sits at 89%. Greece joined the Entente and Bulgaria is still happily sitting at 89%. I believe they need to get to 90% to swing. No diplomacy was used in this game. Isn't Bulgaria supposed to automatically join if Serbia surrenders? This is a catastrophe for the central powers.

When I loaded my save game from a couple turns before Serbia surrendered, and then made Serbia surrender again, Bulgaria immediately joined, with a 95% diplo towards the central powers. So it seems there is some RNG here, but it feels like a huge NPE when Bulgaria doesn't join.

Actually come to think of it, I'm not really sure what the intention of RNG here is at all, considering I have NEVER even once seen Bulgaria join BEFORE Serbia surrenders (perhaps I am killing Serbia too quickly)

*Also, I can't seem to find the event files that cause a change in Bulgaria's diplomacy %. I know there is one for "german victories in poland impress Bulgaria" etc. But I can't seem to locate where they are.




OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 2:53:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

So I playtested a Serbia defense game. Bulgaria got to 89% and then Serbia surrendered. Or maybe they were at 84% then got to 89%. Not sure what the increments were, but Bulgaria has been at 89% since at least June 1915 and now it is November and Bulgaria still sits at 89%. Greece joined the Entente and Bulgaria is still happily sitting at 89%. I believe they need to get to 90% to swing. No diplomacy was used in this game. Isn't Bulgaria supposed to automatically join if Serbia surrenders? This is a catastrophe for the central powers.

When I loaded my save game from a couple turns before Serbia surrendered, and then made Serbia surrender again, Bulgaria immediately joined, with a 95% diplo towards the central powers. So it seems there is some RNG here, but it feels like a huge NPE when Bulgaria doesn't join.

Actually come to think of it, I'm not really sure what the intention of RNG here is at all, considering I have NEVER even once seen Bulgaria join BEFORE Serbia surrenders (perhaps I am killing Serbia too quickly)

*Also, I can't seem to find the event files that cause a change in Bulgaria's diplomacy %. I know there is one for "german victories in poland impress Bulgaria" etc. But I can't seem to locate where they are.


I never really looked at the scripts (kinda on purpose) but this is what I do know....
There are checks made in Russian Poland at a variety of places that can trigger Bulgarian mobilization to the CP:

*Novo-Georgievsk Fortress Besieged Event (This seems random-sometimes I've gotten that when I had 4 CP units next to it. >Edit: no confirmation yet.

*Novo-Georgievsk Fortress taken (mostly always or always)>EDIT: INCORRECT..no trigger per Bills post below

*Warsaw taken >EDIT: COMFIRMED by Bill's post below.

*Hex 191/76 is occupied by CP unit (SE OF Seylitz and the rail junction) (always) I have this written in a note for when I play CP..read it on an obscure Steam post answered by Hubert. Also..I had noticed before reading that post that it would happen if I had managed to reach that rail junction and hold it..a key spot that isolates Warsaw if still held by the Russians. >EDIT: CONFIRMED per Bills post below.

*Ivanograd Fortress (not certain but probable..don't know for sure because I usually can get Bulgaria in first before I can get Ivanograd. >EDIT: INCORRECT per Bill's post below

*>There are two Bulgarian pro-CP activation (mobilization) triggers in Russian Poland confirmed by script.*<

So, there have been times where I put the AH 2nd Army into Galicia, manage to take Belgrade for the Bulgarian mobilization trigger there..but then hunker down on that front..then proceed to lobotomize Russian Poland and go for the Bulgarian mobilization triggers listed above plus some modest to heavy diplomatic investments in Sofia. It does the trick :) Then the backstab of Serbia begins.

Also, I'm revealing one of my strategies I use now[;)]




Chernobyl -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 6:31:06 AM)

Yeah I don't quite understand because I've never had a problem with Bulgaria not joining in multiplayer, but 2nd hotseat in a row I conquer serbia in mid 1915 and Bulgaria is stuck at 88%. There's no "bulgaria swings to the central powers" event popup after serbia surrenders.

By the time I am pushing into those Russian forts it's way after I've conquered Serbia in many cases, especially if my opponent doesn't do a phenomenal job delaying the inevitable in Serbia.




OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 7:01:26 AM)

Oh, I see. You want your cake and eat it too. :) I understand what your saying though..there should be an automatic swing or out right event that pulls Bulgaria in after Serbia falls.

Well, you can still go and bust down those Russian Forts in Poland and host wildly extravagant and expensive parties at all the Central Powers embassies in Sofia to entice Bulgaria to join. [:D]




BillRunacre -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 1:46:35 PM)

These are the scripts relating to Bulgarian mobilization triggered by CP advances. Note that the top two require a CP unit to be in Belgrade to fire.

The scripts themselves work the same whether it be in PBEM, Hotseat or against the AI, so hopefully something jumps out as being the reason?

{
#NAME= The Central Powers Capture Belgrade (Bulgaria)
#POPUP= <<TAG_15>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 19
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1914/08/01
;10-20% activation increase towards the Central Powers
#MOBILIZATION= [10,20] [1]
;Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Austria-Hungary politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 8 [1] [100] [0]
; 2nd Line - Bulgaria politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 19 [1] [0] [0]
;Serbia's capital Belgrade falls to the Central Powers
#CONDITION_POSITION= 187,94 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
}

{
#NAME= The Central Powers Capture Belgrade - Continuous (Bulgaria)
#POPUP=
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 2
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 19
#TRIGGER= 35
#DATE= 1914/08/01
;1-4% activation increase towards the Central Powers
#MOBILIZATION= [1,4] [1]
;Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Austria-Hungary politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 8 [1] [100] [0]
; 2nd Line - Bulgaria politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 19 [1] [0] [0]
;Serbia's capital Belgrade falls to the Central Powers
#CONDITION_POSITION= 187,94 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
}

{
#NAME= The Central Powers Capture Nish (Bulgaria)
#POPUP= <<TAG_15>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 19
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1914/08/01
;8-15% activation increase towards the Central Powers
#MOBILIZATION= [8,15] [1]
;Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Austria-Hungary politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 8 [1] [100] [0]
; 2nd Line - Bulgaria politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 19 [1] [0] [0]
; Central Powers unit near Nish
#CONDITION_POSITION= 190,98 [0,0] [1,1] [1] [0]
}

{
#NAME= The Central Powers Near Uskub (Bulgaria)
#POPUP= <<TAG_16>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 19
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1914/08/01
;8-15% activation increase towards the Central Powers
#MOBILIZATION= [8,15] [1]
;Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Austria-Hungary politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 8 [1] [100] [0]
; 2nd Line - Bulgaria politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 19 [1] [0] [0]
; Central Powers unit near Uskub
#CONDITION_POSITION= 189,101 [2,2] [1,1] [1] [0]
}

{
#NAME= The Central Powers Take Warsaw (Bulgaria)
#POPUP= <<TAG_26>>
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
;Set global variable condition to always trigger (dummy value)
#GV= 1[1,100]
;Set link value to always trigger (dummy value)
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 19
#TRIGGER= 100
#DATE= 1914/08/01
;8-15% activation increase towards the Central Powers
#MOBILIZATION= [8,15] [1]
;Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Austria-Hungary politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 8 [1] [100] [0]
; 2nd Line - Bulgaria politically aligned with the Central Powers and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 19 [1] [0] [0]
; Central Powers units east of Warsaw
#CONDITION_POSITION= 191,76 [3,3] [3,3] [1] [0]
}




OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 3:26:04 PM)

Thanks Bill.

So by taking a close look at this, and reading what Chernobyl says has happened with Bulgaria's mobilization freeze at 89%. that it implies that the 'continuous' up tick of 1-4% activation (mobilization) towards Bugaria STOPS upon Serbia's surrender. Is this correct?

Chernobyl,

I'm wondering...are you attempting to see if you can get Bulgaria in by conquering Serbia totally with out spending any money on diplomacy...and in lieu or in combination of hitting the Bulgarian mobilization triggers in Poland, and again, without spending any money on diplomacy? I'm asking because once you get Bulgaria to 89%, its nothing to spend some MMP's to tip it over 90%, and the inevitable outcome of Bulgaria joining the Central Powers. I'm not criticizing the cost saving strategy if thats what your attempting. I'm just curious :))

Bill or Hubert,

Last note: I do see the condition for hex 191/76 (near Seylitz) as a trigger. Was curious about the message I've received occasionally concerning the Novo-Georgievsk Fortress besiege and Bulgaria's interest..is that a random event and is there an activation of Bulgarias mobilization if that fires..I've seen it a few times when I have encroached on that location.

Thanks





Chernobyl -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 4:56:00 PM)

Thank you for the code Bill. It seems my problem is solved if I keep any unit directly IN Belgrade (sometimes I was keeping them adjacent to Belgrade because that is sufficient to block the partisan from spawning but a quick test seems to indicate to me that a unit must be inside the city hex itself, any unit seems to work including airplanes).

My interpretation of the code "TYPE= 2" must mean continuous and so at the end of every turn (both centrals and entente I believe) there is a 35% chance Bulgaria will move 1-4% diplomatically. And it seems to work both before Serbia surrenders and also after Serbia surrenders.

Just from reading the code alone I wouldn't know you need to keep a unit in those hexes. It sounds like all you need to do is capture those locations when it says "Serbia's capital Belgrade falls to the Central Powers"

Crow, diplomacy doesn't seem like a great option. First of all the Entente could see you spent on diplomacy and counter with their own chits. Secondly, say you put 150 into Bulgaria diplomacy, well that's a 15% chance you will get your swing at the end of each of your own turns, but that could potentially not fire for six months or a year if you're unlucky. Not to mention that's a lot of MPP for early 1915 that you should be spending on other things. The Ottomans need Bulgaria joined ASAP (managed to do it in November 1914 if my Serbian opponent doesn't realize the grave danger but honestly Serbia can run to the mountains especially if there isn't perfect weather for pursuit, and hold out until June 1915 or so). Without the guaranteed ability to get this early connection, my whole strategy of Serbia first becomes unreliable.




OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/22/2021 6:07:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Thank you for the code Bill. It seems my problem is solved if I keep any unit directly IN Belgrade (sometimes I was keeping them adjacent to Belgrade because that is sufficient to block the partisan from spawning but a quick test seems to indicate to me that a unit must be inside the city hex itself, any unit seems to work including airplanes).

My interpretation of the code "TYPE= 2" must mean continuous and so at the end of every turn (both centrals and entente I believe) there is a 35% chance Bulgaria will move 1-4% diplomatically. And it seems to work both before Serbia surrenders and also after Serbia surrenders.

Just from reading the code alone I wouldn't know you need to keep a unit in those hexes. It sounds like all you need to do is capture those locations when it says "Serbia's capital Belgrade falls to the Central Powers"

Crow, diplomacy doesn't seem like a great option. First of all the Entente could see you spent on diplomacy and counter with their own chits. Secondly, say you put 150 into Bulgaria diplomacy, well that's a 15% chance you will get your swing at the end of each of your own turns, but that could potentially not fire for six months or a year if you're unlucky. Not to mention that's a lot of MPP for early 1915 that you should be spending on other things. The Ottomans need Bulgaria joined ASAP (managed to do it in November 1914 if my Serbian opponent doesn't realize the grave danger but honestly Serbia can run to the mountains especially if there isn't perfect weather for pursuit, and hold out until June 1915 or so). Without the guaranteed ability to get this early connection, my whole strategy of Serbia first becomes unreliable.


Oh , I understand about those hard choices about spending money on diplomacy. I'm a penny pincher for sure, especially early in the war. 150 MMP can go a long way for something far better, especially in research. Still, the value of Bulgaria to the Central Powers is so huge, as you well know, that, at least for me...I'll spend some if those fellas in Sofia are a tad hesitant.

I've run into problems in Serbia before against a resourceful opponent, and sometimes I won't deploy the AH 2nd Army down there, but use it up north in conjunction with the Germans to start killing Russians, (or at least thwart their offensives)..and seek the Bulgarian activation locations there, with the added treat of taking the Russians NM locations...to weaken them as early as possible. This strategy has to include at least taking Belgrade on turn one with the forces at hand..which is doable about 80% of the time...if I do that, then I have an easier time to decide whether the 2nd Army goes north or not.

Anyway...it was interesting to see how you solved the problem with the frozen mobilization level..by leaving a unit ON Belgade. It's always the small things haha!




BillRunacre -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/23/2021 6:33:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor

So by taking a close look at this, and reading what Chernobyl says has happened with Bulgaria's mobilization freeze at 89%. that it implies that the 'continuous' up tick of 1-4% activation (mobilization) towards Bugaria STOPS upon Serbia's surrender. Is this correct?


No, the scripts do not take Serbia's status into account.

quote:

Last note: I do see the condition for hex 191/76 (near Seylitz) as a trigger. Was curious about the message I've received occasionally concerning the Novo-Georgievsk Fortress besiege and Bulgaria's interest..is that a random event and is there an activation of Bulgarias mobilization if that fires..I've seen it a few times when I have encroached on that location.


I don't know, there is a STRENGTH script for Novo-Georgievsk being besieged, but all it says is this:

Novo-Georgievsk Is Under Siege! The Garrison's Morale Is Reduced

There's no mention of Bulgaria, nor does it affect Bulgarian mobilization. Could it be that you've seen that and one about Bulgaria in close succession?




BillRunacre -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/23/2021 6:36:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

Thank you for the code Bill. It seems my problem is solved if I keep any unit directly IN Belgrade (sometimes I was keeping them adjacent to Belgrade because that is sufficient to block the partisan from spawning but a quick test seems to indicate to me that a unit must be inside the city hex itself, any unit seems to work including airplanes).


Yes, any unit type will suffice as its presence there denotes possession.

quote:

My interpretation of the code "TYPE= 2" must mean continuous and so at the end of every turn (both centrals and entente I believe) there is a 35% chance Bulgaria will move 1-4% diplomatically. And it seems to work both before Serbia surrenders and also after Serbia surrenders.


That's right, TYPE= 2 means it checks whenever the condition is met, i.e. not just once but continuously.

quote:

Just from reading the code alone I wouldn't know you need to keep a unit in those hexes. It sounds like all you need to do is capture those locations when it says "Serbia's capital Belgrade falls to the Central Powers".


That's true, the intent is to only have it fire when the capital falls to the CP, and the only condition we can have directly determining that is for the CP to have to have a unit in Belgrade.




OldCrowBalthazor -> RE: Bulgaria not joining (1/24/2021 12:16:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Novo-Georgievsk Is Under Siege! The Garrison's Morale Is Reduced

There's no mention of Bulgaria, nor does it affect Bulgarian mobilization. Could it be that you've seen that and one about Bulgaria in close succession?



Bill,

Ah! It must be guilt by association, haha. Well, that's why I was seeing this notice at times or nought depending on the situation in Russian Poland.

Sometimes I had reached the Seydlitz rail junction simultaneously or at least real close turn wise with the encroachment on Novo-Georgievsk...and some times not. That explains what and why I believed Novo-Georgievsk was a Bulgarian activation trigger separate from the rail junction east of Warsaw.

Thanks for this answer and the other ones Chernobyl asked.





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