Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (Full Version)

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Zorch -> Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/4/2020 6:15:10 PM)


https://phys.org/news/2020-12-divers-nazis-enigma-code-machine.html

German divers who recently fished an Enigma encryption machine out of the Baltic Sea, used by the Nazis to send coded messages during World War II, handed their rare find over to a museum for restoration on Friday.

The legendary code machine was discovered last month during a search for abandoned fishing nets in the Bay of Gelting in northeast Germany, by divers on assignment for environmental group WWF.

"A colleague swam up and said: there's a net there with an old typewriter in it," Florian Huber, the lead diver, told the DPA news agency.

The team quickly realised they had stumbled across a historic artefact and alerted the authorities.

Ulf Ickerodt, head of the state archaeological office in Germany's Schleswig-Holstein region, said the machine would be restored by experts at the state's archaeology museum.

The delicate process, including a thorough desalination process after seven decades in the Baltic seabed, "will take about a year", he said.

After that, the Enigma will go on display at the museum.

Naval historian Jann Witt from the German Naval Association told DPA that he believes the machine, which has three rotors, was thrown overboard from a German warship in the final days of the war.

It is less likely that it came from a scuttled submarine, he said, because Adolf Hitler's U-boats used the more complex four-rotor Enigma machines.

A naval historian said he believes the machine was thrown overboard from a German warship in the final days of WWII
The Allied forces worked tirelessly to decrypt the codes produced by the Enigma machine, which were changed every 24 hours.

British mathematician Alan Turing, seen as the father of modern computing, spearheaded a team at Britain's Bletchley Park that cracked the code in 1941.

The breakthrough helped the Allies decipher crucial radio messages about German military movements. Historians believe it shortened the war by about two years.

The story was turned into a 2014 movie called "The Imitation Game", starring Oscar-nominated British actor Benedict Cumberbatch as Turing.

[image]local://upfiles/34241/8964C24DF5E242AD9B9564F0C39961CA.jpg[/image]

[image]local://upfiles/34241/44EE4B5D30354FC882DB05E73FECA008.jpg[/image]




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/4/2020 6:54:05 PM)

The last message was still in the machine. When decoded and translated, it reads, "If Steiner attacks everything will be alright".




warspite1 -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/4/2020 7:00:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The last message was still in the machine. When decoded and translated, it reads, "If Steiner attacks everything will be alright".
warspite1

Not true.

The accurate decoding and translation of the message was:

Gott im Himmel, U-571's bete noire hass zailed into ze Baltic See. Srow ze enigma machinen overbort jetzt!! Ich hate Bon Jovi!!




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/4/2020 7:04:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The last message was still in the machine. When decoded and translated, it reads, "If Steiner attacks everything will be alright".
warspite1

Not true.

The accurate decoding and translation of the message was:

Gott im Himmel, U-571 hass zailed into ze Baltic See. Srow ze enigma machinen overbort jetzt!!


No, that was the next-to-last message. It says "Rafe and Danny are boarding. Destroying all confidential papers".




Blond_Knight -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 12:33:14 AM)

"Entire boat has been searched. Fegelein is not here."




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 3:25:54 AM)

Fegelein! Fegelein! Fegelein! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-5EUsGTQqQ




Orm -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 8:35:38 AM)

Thank you, Zorch, for sharing. [&o] [:)]




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 11:53:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Zorch, for sharing. [&o] [:)]

Thank you for thanking me.




Orm -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 12:00:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Zorch, for sharing. [&o] [:)]

Thank you for thanking me.

Thank you for thanking me for thanking you. [:D]




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 12:05:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Zorch, for sharing. [&o] [:)]

Thank you for thanking me.

Thank you for thanking me for thanking you. [:D]

You're welcome. [8D]




Orm -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 12:44:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Zorch, for sharing. [&o] [:)]

Thank you for thanking me.

Thank you for thanking me for thanking you. [:D]

You're welcome. [8D]

Thank you. [:)]




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 4:23:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Thank you, Zorch, for sharing. [&o] [:)]

Thank you for thanking me.

Thank you for thanking me for thanking you. [:D]

You're welcome. [8D]

Thank you. [:)]

I'm more thankful than you are, Orm. That doesn't mean you're not thankful; of course you're thankful, too.
Which reminds me of a famous phone conversation...

[image]local://upfiles/34241/F12A530E9CD242CBBBAA1FE03195A6AA.gif[/image]




Gilmer -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/5/2020 11:29:57 PM)

I would have thought the last message might be...

"I c@n't find the @ key. Did Fr@nz ste@l it?"




ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/6/2020 12:33:10 AM)

Fake. Able to sell more books.




Fred98 -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/6/2020 10:13:11 PM)

There are 26 letters in the alphabet and 10 numbers. The odds of guessing the first character is 1/36.

If there is a 4th rotor the odds are still 1/36.




RangerJoe -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/8/2020 12:11:13 AM)

If I remember correctly, the Poles got one to copy and gave their information to the British. This was before the war started in Europe.




Orm -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/8/2020 4:21:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

There are 26 letters in the alphabet and 10 numbers. The odds of guessing the first character is 1/36.

If there is a 4th rotor the odds are still 1/36.

The machine didn't have numbers. So the odds for the first character would be 1/26.




Aurelian -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/8/2020 4:50:45 PM)

But did they find a monolith?




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/8/2020 9:36:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

But did they find a monolith?


They did, but it was black (not silver), and emitted a strange humming noise. So they left it at the bottom of the sea.




Neilster -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/8/2020 10:30:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

There are 26 letters in the alphabet and 10 numbers. The odds of guessing the first character is 1/36.

If there is a 4th rotor the odds are still 1/36.

It's radically more complicated than that. From wiki...

"Combining three rotors from a set of five, each of the 3 rotor settings with 26 positions, and the plugboard with ten pairs of letters connected, the military Enigma has 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 different settings (nearly 159 quintillion or about 67 bits).

Note that (5x4x3) x (26^3) x [26! / (6! x 10! x 2^10)] = 158,962,555,217,826,360,000"




Orm -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/9/2020 2:17:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

There are 26 letters in the alphabet and 10 numbers. The odds of guessing the first character is 1/36.

If there is a 4th rotor the odds are still 1/36.

It's radically more complicated than that. From wiki...

"Combining three rotors from a set of five, each of the 3 rotor settings with 26 positions, and the plugboard with ten pairs of letters connected, the military Enigma has 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 different settings (nearly 159 quintillion or about 67 bits).

Note that (5x4x3) x (26^3) x [26! / (6! x 10! x 2^10)] = 158,962,555,217,826,360,000"


Indeed. I am going to assume that your math is correct. Not that it matters. The odds of guessing the first character is still 1/26.

Edit: Or with the letters plugbord added it is 1/36.




ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/9/2020 2:34:56 PM)

Maybe all them dials is just a fake. All the machines sent out to throw off Brits, and Adolf just used Navaho Indians like Yankees.




Neilster -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/9/2020 3:34:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fred98

There are 26 letters in the alphabet and 10 numbers. The odds of guessing the first character is 1/36.

If there is a 4th rotor the odds are still 1/36.

It's radically more complicated than that. From wiki...

"Combining three rotors from a set of five, each of the 3 rotor settings with 26 positions, and the plugboard with ten pairs of letters connected, the military Enigma has 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 different settings (nearly 159 quintillion or about 67 bits).

Note that (5x4x3) x (26^3) x [26! / (6! x 10! x 2^10)] = 158,962,555,217,826,360,000"


Indeed. I am going to assume that your math is correct. Not that it matters. The odds of guessing the first character is still 1/26.

Edit: Or with the letters plugbord added it is 1/36.

I don't understand the point of the original post.

It's obvious that the probability of guessing a letter from one rotor is not good but not vanishingly small. I was illustrating that the combination of choosing three from five possible rotors and having the plugboard leads to an extremely difficult decoding problem. Adding a fourth rotor makes it much worse.




Orm -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/9/2020 3:49:48 PM)

It is indeed difficult of decoding any message sent by the machine. And I have no idea what point the "original" poster was making.

However, I find it fun that the odds of guessing the first letter is still comparatively low. Not that it matters because proving that you guessed right is a huge effort. Or you have to be told the right answer. [:D]




Zorch -> RE: Divers find Nazis' Enigma code machine in Baltic Sea (12/9/2020 5:06:03 PM)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine

Mathematical analysis

The Enigma transformation for each letter can be specified mathematically as a product of permutations.[18] Assuming a three-rotor German Army/Air Force Enigma, let P denote the plugboard transformation, U denote that of the reflector, and L, M, R denote those of the left, middle and right rotors respectively. Then the encryption E can be expressed as

Combining three rotors from a set of five, each of the 3 rotor settings with 26 positions, and the plugboard with ten pairs of letters connected, the military Enigma has 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 different settings (nearly 159 quintillion or about 67 bits).[19]

Note that (5x4x3) x (26^3) x [26! / (6! x 10! x 2^10)] = 158,962,555,217,826,360,000 ≈ 267.1




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