What to do about Yugoslavia? (Full Version)

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LoneRunner -> What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/21/2020 7:18:44 PM)

I noticed a post indicating that encouraging Yugoslavia to join the Axis was a good investment. The Axis would gain several okay Yugoslavian units, Yugoslavia would contribute to the German economy, and Yugoslavia would not need to garrisoned for partisans.

I tested this strategy against the computer on veteran, 39 scenario. After the fall of France, Germany, Italy, and Japan invested 450 MPPs to influence Yugoslavia into the Axis.

Three turns later Yugoslavia joined the Axis. Woohoo.

However, the British supported a coup. So immediately after joining the Axis, Yugoslavia switched to the Allies. Now, after spending 450 MPPs, I'm facing a supplied Yugoslavia army that will take two to three turns to conquer.

If I had declared war on Yugoslavia, I would have saved 450 MPPs and faced an unsupplied army and been able to roll over them in one turn.

The British coup has a 50% chance of success. That seems like a pretty huge risk to take when the Axis is scrounging for MPPs.

Am I missing something? Any advice would be welcome.




Platoonist -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/21/2020 7:28:33 PM)

I had almost the same scenario you just described happen to me. A bundle of MPPs up in smoke and I still have to pull off an invasion. Consequently, I don't invest in Yugoslavia anymore.




HamburgerMeat -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/21/2020 7:32:23 PM)

I would not recommend trying to get Yugoslavia, as you will be taking that land for MPP anyway when the UK supports the coup. If you're going to use minor diplomacy as axis, try to get countries that you typically won't get on your warpath (turkey, spain)




Platoonist -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/21/2020 8:01:28 PM)

I guess this explains why an enraged Hitler ordered Belgrade to be plastered by Luftwaffe bombers. He was probably cheesed off about losing those MPPS too.




Aussiematto -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 1:25:54 AM)

I think it used to be, in an earlier version, that getting Yugoslavia to join Axis was possible (or, was it in SC: WIE?). Now, I concur w the wise advice. Conquer it!

PS - I do like how, in the game, if you can work out how, you can make countries collapse and surrender within 1 turn at low cost, simply by speed and fear. This does feel v realistic




LoneRunner -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 4:12:22 AM)

Thanks everyone. I guess I'll have to continue to conquer Yugoslavia the old fashioned way.

Good point about Spain and Turkey, HamburgerMeat. Looks like I need to game those two options against the AI.




Tanaka -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 6:17:52 AM)

I never understand why any Axis player would want a Spanish ally. Because when I do it is where the allied player lands every time because it is so weak.




Will952 -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 9:57:11 AM)

That's very weird. In WiE the coup only triggers when Yugoslavia is leaning Axis but not fully mobilized. Being able to coup it when it has joined the Axis would indeed make any diplo investment a total gamble.




ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 2:47:58 PM)

Forget all the Diplo non-sense with Yugo!!! Smash 'em up! You got Jaws on your side. Indiana Jones (aka Han Solo and American Graffiti guy) and that little hottie, Barbara Bach don't stand a chance against Panzers :)

[image]local://upfiles/62194/4F40EB7757014DB5855FB610696CB04A.jpg[/image]




Platoonist -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 3:06:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Forget all the Diplo non-sense with Yugo!!! Smash 'em up! You got Jaws on your side. Indiana Jones (aka Han Solo and American Graffiti guy) and that little hottie, Barbara Bach don't stand a chance against Panzers :)


Not only do you have Jaws, you have his nemesis, Captain Quint. (Without the muttonchops and the dirty baseball cap.)

[img]https://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/2017/S/15731-6609.jpg[/img]








Platoonist -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 3:13:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I never understand why any Axis player would want a Spanish ally. Because when I do it is where the allied player lands every time because it is so weak.


I think the allure comes from getting a shot at taking Gibraltar from the easiest angle. I think some may be under the illusion that Spain is still a major military power, but turning off the fog of war and looking at what's actually there should dispel that idea.

After the Yugo-disaster I've kinda given up on diplomacy for the most part unless I'm running a huge surplus in MPPs. I'd rather invest them in sure things like research and unit procurement.




crispy131313 -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 3:14:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Will952

That's very weird. In WiE the coup only triggers when Yugoslavia is leaning Axis but not fully mobilized. Being able to coup it when it has joined the Axis would indeed make any diplo investment a total gamble.


The coup probably happened the turn that “Yugoslavia prepares for war” there is always a turn delay between the Axis getting that final diplo bumb and actually joining.




ElvisJJonesRambo -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/22/2020 3:43:51 PM)

What should be allowed, when Yugoslavia joins whichever side, the owner should be allowed to vary the setup location of units.

Show me the way to go home,
I'm tired and I want to go to bed,
Cos I had a little drink about an hour ago,
And it's gone right to me head,
No matter where I roam,
On land or sea or foam,
You will always hear me singing this song,
Show me the way to go home.




LoneRunner -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 3:55:45 AM)

Crispy is correct. I ran through the scenario twice from a saved game just to make sure. Both tries gave the same result (yeah, bad luck for the Axis).

As the Axis, after the fall of France, I invested 450 MPPs in diplomacy to influence Yugoslavia. Two turns later the British supported a coup. The next turn I got the message that Yugoslavia joined the Axis. That message was immediately followed with a message that said the coup was successful and Yugoslavia joined the Allies. Perhaps the timing was such that Yugoslavia never actually got into the Axis prior to the successful coup.

Anyway, I'm done with diplomacy with Yugoslavia as the Axis. But then as Axis I've never been much for diplomacy. My standard strategy is kill them all.




Tanaka -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 5:50:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

I never understand why any Axis player would want a Spanish ally. Because when I do it is where the allied player lands every time because it is so weak.


I think the allure comes from getting a shot at taking Gibraltar from the easiest angle. I think some may be under the illusion that Spain is still a major military power, but turning off the fog of war and looking at what's actually there should dispel that idea.

After the Yugo-disaster I've kinda given up on diplomacy for the most part unless I'm running a huge surplus in MPPs. I'd rather invest them in sure things like research and unit procurement.


Yep and Spain was made even weaker in WAW they lost the armor unit they had among other things in WIE...




Erse -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 8:19:27 AM)

Wait what? Please tell me this isn't true. I invested so many MPPs into Yugoslavia in the game I'm currently playing to get them to join me. The strategy guide even says, that the Coup can only fire if Yugoslavia is not fully mobilized Axis. I swear if they join the Allies now it's game over for me. My whole army's already set up for the invasion of Barbarossa, if Yugo joins the Allies now it'll take months to defeat them.




Platoonist -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 12:21:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erse

Wait what? Please tell me this isn't true. I invested so many MPPs into Yugoslavia in the game I'm currently playing to get them to join me. The strategy guide even says, that the Coup can only fire if Yugoslavia is not fully mobilized Axis. I swear if they join the Allies now it's game over for me. My whole army's already set up for the invasion of Barbarossa, if Yugo joins the Allies now it'll take months to defeat them.


You have our sympathies if the investment falls through. In retrospect it does seem to be too much of a gamble. However, if you actually score the Golden Ticket and win Yugoslavia over to your side, let us know about it. I'd like to think that it's possible to get the Yugo-Slavs as an ally.




Erse -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 12:54:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erse

Wait what? Please tell me this isn't true. I invested so many MPPs into Yugoslavia in the game I'm currently playing to get them to join me. The strategy guide even says, that the Coup can only fire if Yugoslavia is not fully mobilized Axis. I swear if they join the Allies now it's game over for me. My whole army's already set up for the invasion of Barbarossa, if Yugo joins the Allies now it'll take months to defeat them.


You have our sympathies if the investment falls through. In retrospect it does seem to be too much of a gamble. However, if you actually score the Golden Ticket and win Yugoslavia over to your side, let us know about it. I'd like to think that it's possible to get the Yugo-Slavs as an ally.


So it turns out my buddy, who I'm playing against, is a good guy and didn't do the Coup.
Sadly, this means he'll have an excuse to point at when I finally beat him for the first time [;)][;)]




ThunderLizard2 -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 5:21:07 PM)

I used to invest in flipping Yugo and had about an 80% success rate. Nice when it happens but now I use diplo for other targets and just smash Yugo.




Tanaka -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 10:22:48 PM)

Yep no reason to ever diplo Yugoslavia at all. I think the rule should be that if you do flip Yugo with diplomacy points no allied coup is allowed.




Platoonist -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/23/2020 10:55:05 PM)

Who ever knew Yugos would be so hard to flip? That dog of a car probably enjoyed having it's belly rubbed.

[image]local://upfiles/9147/50BA296B15774B6F99671C2D8CD1AA2E.jpg[/image]




splashell -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 12:05:40 AM)

"
DE 104 – UK: Support a Pro-Allied Coup in Yugoslavia?
 Event fires: There is a 50% chance per turn from the 24th February 1941 when London is in Allied hands, France has surrendered, both Germany and Italy are Axis and not surrendered,
and Yugoslavia is aligned with the Axis but not fully mobilized.
 Cost of accepting: 60 MPPs at 30 MPPs a turn for 2 turns.
 Yes: Yugoslavia joins the Allies and deploys a HQ unit at Belgrade. Greece has a 50% chance of
swinging 30-40% towards the Allies, while Germany loses 1,000 National Morale points, and will
only recoup them when Yugoslavia surrenders.
 No: Yugoslavia signs the Tripartite Pact and joins the Axis, while Germany gains 1,000 National
Morale points.
"




So if I understand this correctly, if axis wants to diploannex Yugoslavia (i.e. 100% mobilization), they had better get it done before Feb '41 or it's basically guaranteed that Yugoslavia will be couped, join the allies thus rendering all invested MPPs to waste? So if axis decides this strategy they must go ALL in from day 1.

On a side note quite historical thou since they joined the Tripartite pact for 2 days before the coup. The terms Germany offered were actually pretty good, basically Hitler said that we don't want you to do anything else than not interfere with our affairs. Learned from WW1 since Serbia developed into a major PITA for central powers.




ThunderLizard2 -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 12:15:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: splashell

"
DE 104 – UK: Support a Pro-Allied Coup in Yugoslavia?
 Event fires: There is a 50% chance per turn from the 24th February 1941 when London is in Allied hands, France has surrendered, both Germany and Italy are Axis and not surrendered,
and Yugoslavia is aligned with the Axis but not fully mobilized.
 Cost of accepting: 60 MPPs at 30 MPPs a turn for 2 turns.
 Yes: Yugoslavia joins the Allies and deploys a HQ unit at Belgrade. Greece has a 50% chance of
swinging 30-40% towards the Allies, while Germany loses 1,000 National Morale points, and will
only recoup them when Yugoslavia surrenders.
 No: Yugoslavia signs the Tripartite Pact and joins the Axis, while Germany gains 1,000 National
Morale points.
"




So if I understand this correctly, if axis wants to diploannex Yugoslavia (i.e. 100% mobilization), they had better get it done before Feb '41 or it's basically guaranteed that Yugoslavia will be couped, join the allies thus rendering all invested MPPs to waste? So if axis decides this strategy they must go ALL in from day 1.

On a side note quite historical thou since they joined the Tripartite pact for 2 days before the coup. The terms Germany offered were actually pretty good, basically Hitler said that we don't want you to do anything else than not interfere with our affairs. Learned from WW1 since Serbia developed into a major PITA for central powers.


I had Yugo join Axis once without diplo. What are the odds of that happening




BillRunacre -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 10:39:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

I had Yugo join Axis once without diplo. What are the odds of that happening


Maybe the Allies said no to carrying out the coup?




ThunderLizard2 -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 2:26:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

I had Yugo join Axis once without diplo. What are the odds of that happening


Maybe the Allies said no to carrying out the coup?


Could be - but why would Allied player do that unless by mistake?




Erse -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 3:05:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2


Could be - but why would Allied player do that unless by mistake?


the Coup has a 50% chance of working, right? maybe the allied player carried it out and it just failed?

Erse




ThunderLizard2 -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 5:25:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erse


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2


Could be - but why would Allied player do that unless by mistake?


the Coup has a 50% chance of working, right? maybe the allied player carried it out and it just failed?

Erse


Can someone check scripts?




HamburgerMeat -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 5:27:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: splashell

"
DE 104 – UK: Support a Pro-Allied Coup in Yugoslavia?
 Event fires: There is a 50% chance per turn from the 24th February 1941 when London is in Allied hands, France has surrendered, both Germany and Italy are Axis and not surrendered,
and Yugoslavia is aligned with the Axis but not fully mobilized.



I think it's 50% per turn




splashell -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/24/2020 7:08:58 PM)

Yup the description clearly states that after February 24th, if the prerequisites are met, there's a 50% chance every turn that the Coup event for Yugoslavia will trigger. After it triggers and if Allied player say's yes, Yugoslavia joins the allies immediately.




BillRunacre -> RE: What to do about Yugoslavia? (8/25/2020 9:29:56 AM)

There is a 100% chance of it happening, but the timing can vary as Axis players got a bit too used to things happening on schedule.

This is fairly new though, and from memory it has always had a 100% chance of happening.




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