Tech prereqs need to be given (Full Version)

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jimwinsor -> Tech prereqs need to be given (8/9/2020 7:44:26 AM)

Some techs on the tech chart cannot be discovered unless other techs are researched. However, the tech chart tooltips inform of the problem, but offer no indication of what the prerequisite tech might be.

Some are fairly obvious, such as needing Combat Armor before Heavy Combat Armor. Others are a bit tricky, such as when I finally stumbled over the fact that Walker Hydraulics unlocks Battledress.

But there are others I'll never be able to guess, such as ICBMs. I've researched Rockets, Missiles, everything with the word Nuclear in it ... and still, I have no clue what it takes to discover ICBMs. This one has me completely stumped.

I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere, but the point is, these prereqs really need to be spelled out in the tooltips.




DTurtle -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/9/2020 3:29:30 PM)

So that's what I was missing in order to discover Battledress.

I agree with this. Guessing games for stuff like this are quite tedious.

It is possible to research ICBMs before, but I don't have a clue as to the prerequisites.




Malevolence -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 12:52:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor

I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere, but the point is, these prereqs really need to be spelled out in the tooltips.


Discovery is random. It's a lottery.

I'm not sure how it ultimately helps in any way, given you can't influence it at all.

There is really no reason to stress over individual tech discoveries, beyond what we can influence. For example, we can influence the tech types--economic, etc.

Might be nice to have for informational purposes.

[image]local://upfiles/34589/9F9ED965487842AB80D21405C15A9964.jpg[/image]




demiare -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 1:59:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Discovery is random. It's a lottery.


They are NOT about discoveries. Some techs have prerequisites. For example - heavy combat armor need polymer armor first, battledress - walkers hydraulics.

But NOTHING in game say it.




Malevolence -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 7:49:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Discovery is random. It's a lottery.


They are NOT about discoveries. Some techs have prerequisites. For example - heavy combat armor need polymer armor first, battledress - walkers hydraulics.

But NOTHING in game say it.


I know, but so what? Is it because of cross-cutting tech categories?

For discussion only, let us say Heavy Combat Armor (Mi) was a prerequisite for Battledress (Mi). How can a player use that information to make a decision or meaningful choice? You put budget into Mi and eventually prizes pop out of the machine.

Maybe if Industrial Robotization (Ec) was a prerequisite for Walker Hydraulics (Mi) there could be a case for some budget changes.

Discovery is so nondeterministic, it just doesn't seem worth the effort beyond strategic prioritization of technology fields.

On the other hand, I would sell your soul for improvement in the finance cash flow report.

[image]local://upfiles/34589/95DDC2DA4F0A48F4BFD8D17619D98CD7.jpg[/image]




demiare -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 7:56:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
I know, but so what? Is it because of cross-cutting tech categories?


Because if you already UNLOCKED a tech group then such technology will be not marked as undiscovered but as marked as unavailable as lacking prerequisite.

Main source of confusion that we have techs permanently locked for whole game (atmospheric techs if you atmosphere lack gases or tectonic tech on world with no geological activity).

So new player have zero way to know - he WILL be able to research Battledress sooner or later or not.

It isn't a big issue, true, but a little more text in tooltips are tiny amount of work and that will make UI a bit better for beginners.




Malevolence -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 7:58:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare

Because if you already UNLOCKED a tech group then such technology will be not marked as undiscovered but as marked as unavailable as lacking prerequisite.


Meh. So now the player knows. What do they do about it?

Also, I'm not sure that's a tiny amount of work to illustrate.

... Whatever. Ok. Sure. +1. [8D]




HansLemurson -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 8:10:56 PM)

You may not have the option to control which techs you Discover, but you can choose which ones you Research. Discoveries will tend to open up in the direction you do the most research since that's where you're unlocking the prerequisites to make previously locked techs discoverable.

The complaint is that some techs are locked away and undiscoverable and it's not obvious what Research path you'd need to take from your available choices to open that tech up to Discovery.




demiare -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 8:25:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Also, I'm not sure that's a tiny amount of work to illustrate.


Why bother to illustrate? More then enough to add into tooltip : "You need to have XXX to discover that tech". See atmospheric water recompositor as example ;)




Malevolence -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 9:29:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: demiare


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Also, I'm not sure that's a tiny amount of work to illustrate.


Why bother to illustrate? More then enough to add into tooltip : "You need to have XXX to discover that tech". See atmospheric water recompositor as example ;)


Slippery slope. [:D]

[image]local://upfiles/34589/E5689C8D4D134064BEC2B3BFDE7729E5.jpg[/image]

I know this all just subtle lobbying for player controlled tech discovery.




demiare -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/10/2020 9:33:03 PM)

And? I'm playing Aurora 4X too, you can't scare me with a bit of text - not even tables :P




jimwinsor -> RE: Tech prereqs need to be given (8/11/2020 12:31:01 AM)

I'm at a point where I've discovered all other possible "MI" techs I can reach. So the fact that I don't know the prereq to ICBMs is a complete barrier to my immediate progress towards discovery of it. There's no randomness involved.

Once I do manage to research the mysterious tech that allows ICBMs, there is a 100% chance all my discovery BPs will go to ICBM discovery.

And I would really like the tech to break the slogfest the ground war has become. So it is a VERY big deal.




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