Subs on steroids or bug? (Full Version)

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sillyflower -> Subs on steroids or bug? (8/6/2020 10:52:33 PM)

This was bad enough


[image]local://upfiles/35790/57442EC02F764438A2F6A639A5002EB1.jpg[/image]




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/6/2020 10:54:22 PM)

Then this [:@] Never seen it before -apart from the previous turn but I thought it was just a report error last turn


[image]local://upfiles/35790/13E97AA4D6144CF8BE27B438B77142AB.jpg[/image]

The escort tech is '42




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/6/2020 11:14:58 PM)

Luck probably. I haven't changed the sub code.

Also what year are your escorts advancement?




baloo7777 -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/6/2020 11:44:22 PM)

Hey... my pbem opponent hit my UBoats (2 together) in Feb 1940 in the heavy rain (they were not in fleet mode, I checked) with the Ark Royal only and did 4 steps of damage (2 on each). It will take months to repair and send them out again! We are both using the beta 8U6 update and I hope that was just luck because he did damage the new one I had just got and sent out couple turns ago (again in rain)... drydocks are full.




battlevonwar -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 12:00:34 AM)

Tech or Luck? Rarely see them this good 'either'. If this is our game I think I am at '43 subs.(at least I'm pretty sure)




Harrybanana -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 6:46:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Luck probably. I haven't changed the sub code.

Also what year are your escorts advancement?


SillyFlower said in his post that his escort tech level was 42; the subs are tech 43. But what I think is wrong is that the same subs performed 2 attacks in the same turn. Is this possible? Some time ago I tried not moving my subs thinking that maybe if they had 2 OPs they would get two attacks, but they didn't.




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 8:45:23 AM)

My opponent is indeed BVW -tho' he will have done well to have been able to upgrade to '43 tech by Feb '42
It's the double attack that I think is wrong. Never come across it before I'm on .073. I don't know if my opponent is on a different version and if that might be causing the problem.




battlevonwar -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 8:56:48 AM)

No 7.3 ...official lastest patch
quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

My opponent is indeed BVW -tho' he will have done well to have been able to upgrade to '43 tech by Feb '42
It's the double attack that I think is wrong. Never come across it before I'm on .073. I don't know if my opponent is on a different version and if that might be causing the problem.



[image]local://upfiles/40596/B93729DE48594C2B9AC8990FF475B13D.gif[/image]




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 9:09:16 AM)

We are on the same version then, but the problem has got worse to the point that I can't carry on. 2 more attacks by subs that moved but I cannot attack BVW's subs either now

[image]local://upfiles/35790/5F8D71F4ED0D4A6CBBD6B2460739555D.jpg[/image]

And yes, the carriers have OPs (as you can see) and they are on all the correct settings but no attack icon. initially I got the attack icon but R clicking didn't do anything, then this. The weather is clear.

I can't restart the game (pbem) but saving and reloading produced the same result as above.

I will now try deleting WP altogether and reinstalling to see if that helps. I assume that the sub attacks occur when my turn is loaded so the game fault is at my end. However it is happening, it's not in the control of either player.




battlevonwar -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 9:19:51 AM)

Odd... bugging out? never seen this ever




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 9:29:42 AM)

Nor me, and it's the 1st time for me to have a problem playing WP other than losing sometimes.




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 9:35:33 AM)

Game reinstalled but same result


[image]local://upfiles/35790/AC985352095F40C9BF5A91EDC6730273.jpg[/image]

EDIT - I am a very Silly Flower. BVW asked me if USA had DOW'd Germany. I hadn't[sm=00000002.gif]

However, this doesn't solve the subs getting double kills, and BVW was clearly not averse to attacking US merchants without DOW'ing the USA. Even Hitler did not stoop that low [:D]




baloo7777 -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 10:09:56 AM)

End of February '42 seems very late for US entry? Is that normal or are you not automatically at war with Germany when you enter? I don't play the Allies very often so not really sure.




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 10:21:54 AM)

USA has to DOW, altho' it never did vs Germany. Adolf DOW'd USA which was very stupid of him. I don't think USA can be late unless you use diplo which I never have and never will.




battlevonwar -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 10:37:41 AM)

Can subs strike in 1 sea zone twice though they're all in 1 group? That appears to be what's happening here which appears to be a bug... '43 Tech Subs stack of 3 and it happened 2 times in 2 seazones.
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlvaroSousa

Luck probably. I haven't changed the sub code.

Also what year are your escorts advancement?





sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 11:46:28 AM)

I've done some detailed testing. Uboats always get 2 strikes in N. Atlantic, but nowhere else.

Definitely a nasty bug IMHO [sm=scared0008.gif]




battlevonwar -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 12:01:04 PM)

Nah SillyFlower this struck the USSR/USA/UK with stack of 3 u-boats in just the North Sea. It's a mega-bug or I don't understand the game mechanics. Never saw this before the latest patch or until you pointed it out.

[image]local://upfiles/40596/B1ECF4BF4A084D22B5A109D5A645AC72.gif[/image]




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 12:36:48 PM)

You are obviously a more skilled u-boat commander than I am, Battlevonwar, and a better bug finder too[&o]

This is definitely a new phenomenon, though how it has only now appeared remains a mystery as neither of us is using a beta.




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 1:58:27 PM)

I'm not following what is happening? Someone please explain?




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 2:21:42 PM)

uboats are doing multiple attacks in the same hex in a single turn. See my screenshots above. Bvw managed 3 in his test as per his post.

Seem to be limited to N Atlantic convoy lane. It has only just started happening. Both of us did a full reinstall of the game before we did the tests above.

I hope this is clearer




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 2:24:08 PM)

They are doing multiple attacks on various convoys crossing the Atlantic. It isn't a bug. Atlantic is also the easiest to defend.

Vs a heavy sub German I tend to build 3-4 planes that cover the gap with everything in escort tech and buying escorts. I have 12 per lane.




sillyflower -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 2:51:35 PM)

Neither of us has come across this phenomenon before in God-knows how many games. I suspect that there are other areas with multiple convoys too where this problem does not exist.

Seems a bit OTT to me, especially as wolfpack attacks always caused re-routing of other convoys to avoid the area, and uboats aren't very nimble even on the surface where they were relatively easy to spot.




AlvaroSousa -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 5:42:52 PM)

It's always been there.

Defending convoys isn't easy. But it must be done.




Nirosi -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 5:50:22 PM)

To be honest I have a very hard time defending convoys in 1939 and early 1940. I try to max it out where German subs seem to be going but I have lost in my last two games as the Allies about half the escorts (8 this game for sure and around 6 last one I would say) by the 5th of January 1940 (plus 38 merchants but that seems ok). They (escorts) litteraly sink faster than I can rebuild since they take 7 months.

I am at a loss to undestrand why since I max as much as I can the escorts n convoys. Planes do not reach the lanes yet and CVs never find the sub (0 in 7 tries by now).

I am just extremely unlucky (or opponent lucky) or is there something obvious I do not see? I am almost considering pullign the escorts ot of the convoys.

Thanks for any advice,




Nirosi -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 6:13:57 PM)

While I am on the subject, my opponent would like to mention a possible bug. Germany lost an escort in the 39-40 winter (according to a combat report from raiding), but it still has the two escorts from start. He can send screenshots if necessary.

Were are playing with the last non-beta version.




Flaviusx -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 6:33:11 PM)

When hunting down subs, try to put together a carrier task force with 3 CVs. You have to mass your own carriers to match wolf packs.

But if your luck is bad early on you may indeed just want to pull escorts off duty until you tech up. 39 convoy tech is piss and especially against 40 subs. Turkey shoot for the subs.

You may also want to bit the bullet and buy a strat bomber with detection tech and research that tech. I usually leave this to the Americans, those birds are super expensive and a bit much for the poor Brits, but if you find yourself on the backfoot you may just have to squeeze in the build and tech. On the plus side: these bombers with their massive range can do things besides hunt subs, so they won't go to waste down the line.




Nirosi -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 6:48:47 PM)

Thanks,

I'll try the 3 CVs approach. I bought a strategic bomber already; it is on it's way. In another game I noticed that with 41 tech it almost never found subs (10-15%?) and with 42 tech only about 30-40%. Are those the expected numbers? I just want to make sure, more or less, what to expect.




Nirosi -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/7/2020 7:34:10 PM)

Another question relating to convoys : On page 5, the manual say that merchant marine (points?) represent 200 000 tons of active convoys. This seems strange to me because while trying my best to protect them, I still lost 38 merchands (and 6 escorts) in 1939. That would mean 7 600 000 tons of merchants.

Is it then really 200 000 tons per merchant? Not only that would mean that I lost in 1939 half the total historical loss in the war (about 14 millions), but also that in game terms, the total merchant loss for the "historical" war would only be ~70 merchands which is nothing very serious for the whole war.

Or is it 200 000 toons for a "full convoy" of about 50 merchant points?




battlevonwar -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/8/2020 12:55:50 AM)

People seem to be missing the point 1 sub is raiding 3 nations Convoys on the same hex, on the same turn! That's impossible by game terms and never has happened before. That's the point of the topic.

(not only that would require that 1 sub to have the ability to strike 3 times on the same turn which would be impossible they do not operate like that)




baloo7777 -> RE: Subs on steroids or bug? (8/8/2020 3:04:39 PM)

In a 3 UBoat wolfpack, is the attack a combined single attack by the whole group or is the computer attacking once for each sub in the group?




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