Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (Full Version)

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MJY -> Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/9/2020 10:56:46 PM)

Dear Matrix Games,

In games with the Fog of War option turned on, why is it that you can still read all the Reports from your opponents? It makes sense that some should be visible, but some of these pages provide useful information to the opposition -- information that would certainly be considered a "state secret" in wartime.

For example, I have no problem with ship and other losses being tracked and visible to both sides. The loss of enemy vessels and armies is readily apparent to both sides as they occur and having this information available just saves the effort of having to keep track of it yourself.

On the other hand, I find it strange that I can go to the Reports page and see if my opponent has invested in diplomacy last turn -- and how much. Also useful is knowing how my my opponent's economy is generating. Depending on what I see, I might, for example, switch to or away from a strategy of attrition and, at the very least, it is a good indication of whether or not you are winning or losing.

Now, in practice I don't actually look at this information when I am playing. I don't consider it to be "according to Hoyle." But I am sure that some players use it and so I wonder if some of these pages should be hidden when Fog of War is being used.

MJY





Markiss -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/10/2020 12:25:43 PM)

I have not checked lately, but it used to be that if you watch your opponents number of naval units closely, you can tell when land units are boarding transports(or amphibious assault ships), and when naval units disappear through transport portals. You can use this knowledge to anticipate invasions, tell when the British are sending units to Egypt(and so when to Sealion), or if the US is reinforcing Egypt or going for Torch.

I don't have a problem seeing losses, as an opponent would have first-hand knowledge about that. But I think total number of units should be obscured with fog of war on, you can glean just too much from that information. I personally don't use it, as I believe it confers an unfair advantage, but it could be used and I am sure some do, if it has not been fixed by now. Can anyone confirm?




Taifun -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/11/2020 7:48:08 AM)


quote:



On the other hand, I find it strange that I can go to the Reports page and see if my opponent has invested in diplomacy last turn -- and how much. Also useful is knowing how my my opponent's economy is generating. Depending on what I see, I might, for example, switch to or away from a strategy of attrition and, at the very least, it is a good indication of whether or not you are winning or losing.



I completely agree with MJY. I do no see the logic of being able to see all your enemies economic data or diplomacy efforts and the game will be much more interesting!




Andreas150_ssl -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/11/2020 11:18:45 AM)

In der Realität hatte der Geheimdienst viele Informationen über den Gegner gewonnen (diplomatische Aktivitäten, Forschung, Truppenstärke...).

Da hätte ich einen Vorschlag:

Man könnte dem Geheimdienst hier in SC3 mehr Funktionen geben:

Stufe 0
keine Informationen über den Gegner.

Stufe 1
Infos über Investitionen in Diplomatie und Forschung des Gegners.

Stufe 2
Infos über Investitionen in Diplomatie und Forschung
und Infos über Wirtschaftsdaten (MPP, Einnahmen, Ausgaben) des Gegners.

Stufe 3
Infos über Investitionen in Diplomatie und Forschung
und Infos über Wirtschaftsdaten (MPP, Einnahmen, Ausgaben)
und Infos über Truppenstärke des Gegners.

Das würde das Spiel viel interessanter machen. Vielleicht habt ihr noch andere Ideen.[:)]




BillRunacre -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/11/2020 12:28:24 PM)

Would diplomatic activity in a neutral country not become common knowledge, e.g. the German Ambassador has been seen wining and dining various political figures, suggesting something is afoot. Not forgetting of course that neutral countries were full of agents there to collect and pass on information.

In game, rather than advise which country one is attempting to influence, the graph simply notifies that the enemy is up to something diplomatically, so it could be argued that this is less information than may have been gathered at times in real life?

Not that I'm against a tougher version of fog of war in principle, but more so with economic data as the diplomatic aspect seems about right to me because you get some information but it is very vague.




Hubert Cater -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/11/2020 2:49:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Markiss

I have not checked lately, but it used to be that if you watch your opponents number of naval units closely, you can tell when land units are boarding transports(or amphibious assault ships), and when naval units disappear through transport portals. You can use this knowledge to anticipate invasions, tell when the British are sending units to Egypt(and so when to Sealion), or if the US is reinforcing Egypt or going for Torch.

I don't have a problem seeing losses, as an opponent would have first-hand knowledge about that. But I think total number of units should be obscured with fog of war on, you can glean just too much from that information. I personally don't use it, as I believe it confers an unfair advantage, but it could be used and I am sure some do, if it has not been fixed by now. Can anyone confirm?


This was corrected a while ago, e.g. all transports no longer increase naval unit counts and continue to count as a land unit (no indication to your opponent that suddenly there was a drop in land unit count and an increase in naval unit count indicating a possible assault), and any units in a loop, transport or naval continue to count as well.




Tanaka -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/11/2020 6:20:29 PM)

I did find it interesting when my current MP opponent pointed out I was putting all my MPPs into research instead of buying units. He could see what I was doing and prepare for it just by looking at the graphs.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/11/2020 7:12:52 PM)

I suggested changing access to these reports two years ago but many disagreed.

I now look at it as another form of intelligence.

The reports (research) can give you insights into your opponents strategies. Like if your Axis opponent spends 125 or 250 on research early there is a good chance they are going for Sealion or other LRAT strategies. C&C, AA and artillery are the only other options at 125 and C&C and artillery start with 1 chit, so AA really the only other option.





Elessar2 -> RE: Fog of War and Reports Page Visibility (6/12/2020 12:11:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Not that I'm against a tougher version of fog of war in principle, but more so with economic data as the diplomatic aspect seems about right to me because you get some information but it is very vague.


Hitler didn't know the amount of aid & native economic activity that the USSR was benefiting from. I believe that he was on record as explicitly saying that if had known, he wouldn't have attacked.




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