new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (Full Version)

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BrianG -> new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 9:36:07 PM)

Not to give stuff away, but i am getting very low mp's for russian tank corp, on rr, near stalin (zuckie), and near their hq. turn 55

such as MP's of 16, 25 20 another 16

a third shock Army with Malinovsky a 9 mp with Stalin 2 hexes away

These hq's are at 80% toe. Stalin is at 98%

I think i have have plenty of trucks, 226K (91K)

The russians are flush and have small army 4.8 million

seems really low.





BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 9:53:53 PM)

Stalingrad taken. RR cut East of Stalingrad

Concerning the swamp trace rr heading southeast from Stalingrad down to Port Astrakhan: My units southeast of stalingrad now have very long mp's. I guess they are tracing over the steep to rr which heads East to the urals. But shouldn't they instead look to this swamp trace rr to bring sufficient supply. They are on top of it and it connects to a good port

Not really sure i am satisfied with the new supply system.

sorry



eskuche -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:13:54 PM)

What is source city % available for fuel? What is your rail need %?



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:23:00 PM)

quote:

What is source city % available for fuel? What is your rail need %?



it is near a major city. It should just not have these low numbers, its hindering the game.



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:25:38 PM)

rr% as the one you can adjust for unit rr movement.

it is at 32%. rail reserve. It that hindering supply. I thought that adjusts between rr of industry and unit rr movement. It also effects supply to cities?



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:29:24 PM)

at a mp of 16, in supply , no matter the city it traces too, it should not be in situation where Germans can outrun them on retreat.



eskuche -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:33:23 PM)

Let me clarify. In 12.05 units draw from NOT necessarily the closest city. You need to see city source first to see if the city has enough.

For rail yes if you toggle up the production screen % it reduces the amount available for both supply and industry. See rail% in logistics bottom table to see how bad you’re hurting. I’d say you’re at 50% needed rail or so. I wrote out an example with numbers in a thread started by mmoarrke a few weeks ago if you want to dig for it.



joelmar -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:35:57 PM)

Change log 1.12.02

4. Soviet factory evacuation will now use separate rail capacity, equal to 75% of rail capacity available for resupply operations (which is equal to total rail capacity minus rail capacity reserved for unit transport).



chaos45 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:37:40 PM)

there are so many factors that influence MP/Supply its hard to know without lots of details.

Did the units or HQs move the previous turn, if so how far, what was their supply state the previous turn, fatigue level and so forth. Also how many HQs are supporting them with rolls/support units/supplies.

If I remember right early tanks corps esp in 1942 are just total trash units, not enough support units, low experience and morale. They are almost combat in-effective without other real combat units in support or being massed to get barely the same CV as a german infantry divisions from a whole stack of tank corps.

Also if you are far from a rail supply line, and you moved the turn before...then yes odds are you will have very low MPs.



joelmar -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:41:22 PM)

BTW Brian, the Germans also get less MP's per unit on average than it used to be, it goes both sides.

Also, @eskuche, Morvael confirmed to me last week that once a city depot is empty, units will switch to other city depots to get supplies, including airbases, they are not bound to one.



eskuche -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:43:59 PM)

Units will switch? So then city depots have no bearing..? Seems weird.

E: I was aware airbases did this though. I thought gor units it was just for on the go as needed fuel.



joelmar -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/2/2020 10:55:13 PM)

that's what he told me. I guess the idea is not to have units starving if there are supplies nearby. In RL, that would be taken care of by the quartermasters, really that's only a dispatching problem.



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 1:51:28 AM)

They had moved.

Issue is if you give them a 9 for example, the unit can barely move and then would again use up 100% of fuel.

These very low mp's when near sufficient supply sources means one is assuming the Russian would just not bother suppling their tanks each turn. An absurd result.

[image]local://upfiles/41373/C7B49BB111964FE6B149242BC455D237.jpg[/image]



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 1:55:25 AM)

as for Reserved Rail.

Which setting gets the most supply: zero or 80?

Thanks Maybe that is the main issue



eskuche -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 1:58:38 AM)

Zero does. Reserved rail is for unit transport. Non-reserved rail is for supply and industry.

Please read this for details: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4771782&mpage=1&key=�



redrum68 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 2:24:25 AM)

Can you post a screenshot for the HQ's unit supply details as well? That will show what city/town its pulling from.



chaos45 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 7:53:14 AM)

Well you can see the issue is supply for the unit...it only got roughly 26% of supplies needed and 18% of fuel needed that turn. As well it had no fuel on hand from the prior turn meaning you had moved it almost all its MP the prior week.

You can also see it tried to pull supply from Army HQ so my guess is your Army HQ are also moving and low or a long way from supply.

Remember HQ manning used to not be an issue but Morveal changed that long ago so now every single percent you are under 100% is a negative to what the HQ rolls. As well most soviet units do not have enough support squads, so you need those support squads from the Army to help supply the attached soviet units.

From the single screen shot, I would guess you moved both the Army and Tank corps a chunk of MPs the prior turn, then due to a rail cut maybe the army lost the ability to fully re-supply which then affected the tank corps supply level. Not to mention that the fatigue from the prior turns movement on low exp troops takes a toll and the HQ not being fully manned would be a further negative to your re-supply efforts.




tyronec -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 8:56:28 AM)

quote:

Stalingrad taken. RR cut East of Stalingrad

Concerning the swamp trace rr heading southeast from Stalingrad down to Port Astrakhan: My units southeast of stalingrad now have very long mp's. I guess they are tracing over the steep to rr which heads East to the urals. But shouldn't they instead look to this swamp trace rr to bring sufficient supply. They are on top of it and it connects to a good port

Not really sure i am satisfied with the new supply system.

I think the rail to Astrakhan is inactive because it is not connected to a Supply Source, so the units can only get Port Supply from Astrakhan of normal supply from the rail network somewhere else.
Perhaps someone can confirm this, does the rail network function from a Port ?



Telemecus -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 11:08:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Stalingrad taken. RR cut East of Stalingrad

Concerning the swamp trace rr heading southeast from Stalingrad down to Port Astrakhan: My units southeast of stalingrad now have very long mp's. I guess they are tracing over the steep to rr which heads East to the urals. But shouldn't they instead look to this swamp trace rr to bring sufficient supply. They are on top of it and it connects to a good port

Not really sure i am satisfied with the new supply system.

I think the rail to Astrakhan is inactive because it is not connected to a Supply Source, so the units can only get Port Supply from Astrakhan of normal supply from the rail network somewhere else.
Perhaps someone can confirm this, does the rail network function from a Port ?

Rail does not work from a port (which is not a permanent supply source). The rail does help with supply if the port can trace supply across a sea. But at +1MP per hex rather zero as would be normal with a rail connected to the main grid.



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/3/2020 8:32:09 PM)

quote:

Rail does not work from a port (which is not a permanent supply source).


Perhaps port Astrakhan should be made a supply source.

It would help in game mechanics. Now, if Stalingrad and environs are German held and the rr cut from Baku cut to Astrakhan, then Russians cannot hug the Stalingrad area due to very long supply lines and must retreat back to the port or east across the Steepe.

Besides taking the port, The port can be isolated by taking the sea approach hexes. Thus, the Germans will now have an incentive to move forces to this port area, instead of just isolating it by cutting the rr's on either side.

Better game strategy and use of map.



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 4:05:41 PM)

next turn

This unit did not move. I repeat this unit did not move. Is it showing he moved? then that would be totally incorrect and the supply formula has a bug.

only 20mp's

something is not right

[image]local://upfiles/41373/EEF8A08B442649C89DE65E874CAF1354.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 4:13:03 PM)

Its showing it didn't move (movement modifier 100%). Its modifiers are very good just missing a few trucks (94% total). The problem must be with available fuel/supplies in the nearby towns/cities since it only receives 30% fuel. You would need to look at the HQ supply info and your RAIL % in the event log. Most likely your rail production or supply production is too low to supply all your units.



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 5:17:49 PM)

supply and rail info.

[image]local://upfiles/41373/A60D7607D18B474DB67B9B7744BB66D0.jpg[/image]



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 5:18:38 PM)

armor corp info

The 2 high fatigue tanks have already moved.




[image]local://upfiles/41373/A11A5F3189B548C5980C15A4B92634B9.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 5:32:48 PM)

Sorry I should have been more clear. Need to see the supply details window for the tank corp HQ as that will show what town/city its pulling supply from and what percentage it had available. And for supply/rail you want to look towards the bottom of the event log (RESOURCE STATUS) which shows how much you need of each and how much you had available.



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 7:41:21 PM)

hq supply

better pic

[image]local://upfiles/41373/214D980576EC421AB190E52E748DE761.jpg[/image]



BrianG -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 7:42:05 PM)

quote:

RESOURCE STATUS




[image]local://upfiles/41373/A725B30A7B5B4385820FCE712F39942A.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 7:56:13 PM)

Yeah, you have a very serious rail capacity shortage. The HQ is pulling from Pugachevo which only has 31% of the needed fuel and you only have 21% of the needed rail capacity to deliver supplies/fuel to cities for HQs/units to pull from. I'm guessing most of your tanks are getting only around 30% of the fuel they need and most infantry/cavalry are probably only getting a portion of the supplies they need.

If you haven't already, you should turn reserve rail to 0% and make sure you don't have any units on trains. Essentially you need to try to increase free rail capacity (you also aren't producing much rail capacity overall, I'm guessing you've lost a lot of the rail centers at this point). Also try to reduce the rail capacity NEED as you essentially are only producing enough rail capacity (95383) to support 1/3 of what you need (331336) right now so most units are only receiving 1/3 of their needed fuel/supply.



Telemecus -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 7:56:48 PM)

Problem

[image]local://upfiles/53894/90FCADA220BB4966993F7A8A5DFF8121.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: new beta 05 russian tank corp fuel (6/6/2020 8:26:50 PM)

Most likely with the supply system changes, there needs to either be a higher Soviet rail capacity multiplier in 1942+ or just more Soviet railyard production. Here is the current multipliers:

26. Introduced yearly multipliers to rail capacity. Axis: 5, 6, 7, 8, 7. Soviet: 7 (3.5 in June 1941), 7, 8, 9, 10. Previously Axis rail capacity was not multiplied, and Soviet rail capacity was multiplied by 5 (2.5 in June 1941). However, rail capacity was used only for unit transport, and was effectively unlimited for the purposes of resource transport.



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