RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (Full Version)

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AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 12:25:17 PM)

Right here goes.

Before piling into the North Sea, there are a couple of vulnerabilities to address in the event of an Italian DoW on impulse 3. The ports on the East Med are exposed to surprise invasion, particularly Port Said where you have the British fleet. To get them covered while still taking a naval move means either leaving the Queens exposed in the East Med 1-box or leaving Damietta open.

Damietta open has a 6 speed CA bringing the INF Div from Plymouth to Port Said. If the landing succeeds and assuming there will be other ships to provide defensive shore bombardment, you have the option of a 3:1 counter-attack using the INF Div, TERR and ART but this has a 30% chance of failure and almost certain disorganisation. You can get 4.5:1 by leaving the ART at Alex and using Wavell. If the fractional fails, it's 10% failure but 70% likely disorganised. At 5:1 the Italian Div will be destroyed but there's still a 50% chance of disorganisation. If that happens, Alex will fall to the Italians advancing from Libya and reinforcements can be brought in.

I think a combined move is necessary for CW. Use the Queens to bring the TERR up to Suez (keeps them as safe as we can). In your land moves, bring Wavell back to Damietta, move the Egyptian TERR to Port Said and the SA TERR to Alex'.

That leaves one naval move. You could use it to put the RN in the North Sea or send the Polish DD's raiding in the Baltic. However, another idea would be to use one of the 4 range CA's at Plymouth to bring the INF Div to Oran. If the Italians want a port in Algiers on the surprise move, it would have to be Bone, which is the right side of Algiers for us. They could still try a landing on the west side, hoping to be able to debark an HQ later but it could be counter-attacked first and the HQ and TRANS run the gauntlet in West Med without the advantage of surprise.

France will take a naval and put Bearn and CA in the North Sea 3-box and send everything to West and East Med as high a sea box as possible. I'll send out the 2 CP's at Casablanca as they can help you with the chain from Dutch Guyana or Belgium Congo when they become available. It's also then a port to bring the Nigerian TERR's into if it looks like they are doing a 'close the Med'.

Suggest Gort to Bordeaux in preparation of going to Bayonne once I have shifted the oil. If you can take a naval on our second impulse then great but that leaves Calais open until our third impulse. Need to look at the situation. Combined on our second impulse would be okay and use other naval move depending on whether Italians have gone to war.

Opening air stikes I suggest the French will try Saarbrucken. RAF try the DB-7 on the 8-6 ARM and the Harrows on the 5-5 MOT and FTR if it hasn't gone to North Sea and 6-5 MOT if it has.

What do you think?




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 12:50:14 PM)

Okay thanks - that's very useful. Stupid placement of the Med Fleet - no need for it either. I'll see what they actually do first impulse and take it from there. But I've limited our options by that dumb placement [:(].




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 1:04:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay thanks - that's very useful. Stupid placement of the Med Fleet - no need for it either. I'll see what they actually do first impulse and take it from there. But I've limited our options by that dumb placement [:(].


Not really. We would have had to have got them covered anyway. They still might try landing around hex 81,62 but we would be able to react to it better.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 1:07:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay thanks - that's very useful. Stupid placement of the Med Fleet - no need for it either. I'll see what they actually do first impulse and take it from there. But I've limited our options by that dumb placement [:(].


Not really. We would have had to have got them covered anyway. They still might try landing around hex 81,62 but we would be able to react to it better.
warspite1

I've got a new pair of angry trousers on order. The last pair have worn right through.....[:@]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJSr6vY32Ls




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 3:15:41 PM)

Looking at the first plan, you could leave Wavell at Alex and move the SA TERR to Damietta.

I've though of another option, which will be worth considering if the German fleet puts to sea in the first impulse. Move the INF Div to Oran as before. The TERR at Cairo goes to Port Said and the ART at Alex' to Damietta. That leaves a naval move to pile the RN into the North Sea on the surprise move and hope to knock lumps out of the KM. You should still get to the 3-box with surprise. The Germans might be in the 2-box if they want fighter cover.

The downside is a weaker defence of Damietta but assuming shore bombardment, their attack would be 1:1 +1 if we include the notional. That's 80% chance of failure and 50% chance the ART survives. Be interesting to see if they take those odds on as a real punt. However, even if it gets ashore it will be disorganised and you could bring in the SA TERR on our next impulse for a pretty good odds counter-attack.

This also leaves a land move free. If it hasn't been blocked by the PzJag 1, which is the only unit that can, then I'd consider moving the INF at Poznan to 47,43. That provides a block to buy an impulse for the Polish DD's to have a go at the German CP's in the Baltic. Don't know about committing RN CA/CL's here. More ships is more chances but those 6 speed CA's are invaluable. I'll leave that one to you. If it is blocked, then you could get a decent attack against the PzJag if you used the Polish LND in support.

Another possibility they might try is Haifa. I'll make sure the French ships in East Med have 3 shore bombardment factors to assist a counter-attack with the TERR should the Italian INF Div get ashore.

One other minor point. When dropping Gort off, use a 4-4 TRANS and keep it in the 0-box in Biscay. That way, at Return to Base, it can get down to the Nigerian port ready to pick up one of the TERR's.

P.s. Need to start thinking about units to get to Gib'. If they are going for 'Close the Med' then two elite ones will ultimately be needed but just getting 2 corps with the ENG is first priority. The 7-3 INF in the reserves (deploy in a West Coast port) plus Sydney MIL are probably best option unless anything else crops up but will need the Queens. SA TERR to Suez or elsewhere in East Africa or Singapore is best way to facilitate that.




Courtenay -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 4:59:50 PM)

Why set up the Polish airforce where it can be overrun and destroyed in hexes the Germans are going to move into anyway?

If nothing else, set it up in Eastern Poland where it will get interned when the Russians occupy eastern Poland.

If the Germans leave Rundstedt in clear terrain ground strike him. Maybe do so anyway.

Have units ready to land in Rotterdam if he fails to take it. If you get three surprise points in the North Sea, target the unit carrying the division. Even an A result will send it home.

If you put a unit in the forest instead of the empty hex southwest of Warsaw, he can't get any units adjacent to the cities. As it is, he can get three hexes on Lodz




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 5:13:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

Why set up the Polish airforce where it can be overrun and destroyed in hexes the Germans are going to move into anyway?

If nothing else, set it up in Eastern Poland where it will get interned when the Russians occupy eastern Poland.

If the Germans leave Rundstedt in clear terrain ground strike him. Maybe do so anyway.

Have units ready to land in Rotterdam if he fails to take it. If you get three surprise points in the North Sea, target the unit carrying the division. Even an A result will send it home.

If you put a unit in the forest instead of the empty hex southwest of Warsaw, he can't get any units adjacent to the cities. As it is, he can get three hexes on Lodz


There are no German units in East Prussia. The only units not shown are a German 5-3 INF at 55,43 SE of Katowice and the Polish CAV at Krakow. The Polish air is quite safe where it is for now.

Rundstedt is out of range. My mistake with where I put the French LND. That said, it's still got a decent ground strike at either 2 INF and FTR at Saarbrucken or von Bock in the woods. I'm inclined to the former as success prevents them from being used until reorganised and reorganising them disorganises the HQ anyway.




Courtenay -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 6:38:59 PM)

It never occurred to me that German would set up no units in East Prussia. That leads to some insane ideas, which I won't mention, because they are, after all, insane.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 6:42:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

It never occurred to me that German would set up no units in East Prussia. That leads to some insane ideas, which I won't mention, because they are, after all, insane.
warspite1

Not operation Catherine I hope?




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 7:01:02 PM)

Operation Catherine?




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 7:06:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Operation Catherine?
warspite1

Churchill's spiffing wheeze to put a fleet into the Baltic.... [8|]




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 7:12:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Operation Catherine?
warspite1

Churchill's spiffing wheeze to put a fleet into the Baltic.... [8|]



Ah ...

In the meantime, any thoughts on my further ramblings?




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 7:22:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Operation Catherine?
warspite1

Churchill's spiffing wheeze to put a fleet into the Baltic.... [8|]



Ah ...

In the meantime, any thoughts on my further ramblings?
warspite1

Yes lots - and I'm very grateful for the input (I would have missed the Port Said Fred debacle). But I won't make up my mind - and we can discuss further - once we've seen the cut of Hitler's jib young Bob.




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/12/2020 7:26:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Operation Catherine?
warspite1

Churchill's spiffing wheeze to put a fleet into the Baltic.... [8|]



Ah ...

In the meantime, any thoughts on my further ramblings?
warspite1

Yes lots - and I'm very grateful for the input (I would have missed the Port Said Fred debacle). But I won't make up my mind - and we can discuss further - once we've seen the cut of Hitler's jib young Bob.



C'est d'accord mon ami.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/13/2020 3:15:28 PM)

How do you want to play this old boy? Shall I do the initial bit and then hand over for the French naval?




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/13/2020 4:21:46 PM)

Sounds good to me.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/13/2020 4:52:01 PM)

Okay so we are going for Naval (Fra) Combined (CW, USSR and USA) and Land (China)?




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/13/2020 5:01:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay so we are going for Naval (Fra) Combined (CW, USSR and USA) and Land (China)?


Yes please.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/13/2020 7:43:25 PM)

Further to our e-mail exchange - nothing for the CW with regard to groundstrike. Could have done with the Blenheim or Hampden....




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 5:41:02 PM)

Did the US/CW have any rail moves in mind? Do you want me to do the CW land moves as we discussed?




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 5:53:26 PM)

Nothing rail wise and yes, lets try and protect Egypt thanks




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 6:01:10 PM)

Did you have any plans for the Polish air force? I think they would still be okay to rebase to Lithuania if the Soviets claim Eastern Poland as they could fly over East Prussia but just making sure.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 6:06:03 PM)

I'm tempted to stick around (in Poland) to stretch the Luftwaffe if we can. What do you think?




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 6:25:19 PM)

Well, they have a 5 factor and a 3 factor fighter to oppose any mission undertaken. Both have modest ground attack capability, so you might be preventing them being used in that capacity as long as you stick around. +2/-2 aren't great odds for success for anything the Polish try and once used they are lost unless the HQ reorganises. Doing both would need an air move by CW, which is unlikely. Counting on getting two shot downs with pilot surviving to go in the reserves would really be banking on finding the silver lining.

On balance I think you would get more value from being able to bring the decent Blenheim and either the Gladiator CVP or Hurricane from the reserve pool. You have a pilot on the way too for one of the two not chosen or maybe the Whitley.




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 6:28:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AllenK

Well, they have a 5 factor and a 3 factor fighter to oppose any mission undertaken. Both have modest ground attack capability, so you might be preventing them being used in that capacity as long as you stick around. +2/-2 aren't great odds for success for anything the Polish try and once used they are lost unless the HQ reorganises. Doing both would need an air move by CW, which is unlikely. Counting on getting two shot downs with pilot surviving to go in the reserves would really be banking on finding the silver lining.

On balance I think you would get more value from being able to bring the decent Blenheim and either the Gladiator CVP or Hurricane from the reserve pool. You have a pilot on the way too for one of the two not chosen or maybe the Whitley.
warspite1

Agreed [:(] You are too sensible [;)] Good job one of us has a brain [&o]




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 6:33:59 PM)

I'll hold off on Poland for another impulse.




Courtenay -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 6:57:21 PM)

I have to ask: Are you going to overrun the disorganized German bomber on the German coast? You have to be careful not to have the Polish unit in supply at the end of the turn, but that can almost certainly be arranged. And it might discombobulate the Germans. (It would certainly discombobulate me!)




warspite1 -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 7:02:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I have to ask: Are you going to overrun the disorganized German bomber on the German coast? You have to be careful not to have the Polish unit in supply at the end of the turn, but that can almost certainly be arranged. And it might discombobulate the Germans. (It would certainly discombobulate me!)
warspite1

If you mean the Dornier, its got two army units on its hex (reserves) - so no! [:)]




Courtenay -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 7:05:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I have to ask: Are you going to overrun the disorganized German bomber on the German coast? You have to be careful not to have the Polish unit in supply at the end of the turn, but that can almost certainly be arranged. And it might discombobulate the Germans. (It would certainly discombobulate me!)
warspite1

If you mean the Dornier, its got two army units on its hex (reserves) - so no! [:)]


Ah, those weren't there in the picture I saw. OK, that makes more sense of the German move now.




AllenK -> RE: We are going to stamp all over one's Blau Swede Schuhe (4/14/2020 7:25:01 PM)

CW have 1 more land move. Here's one that might upset the apple cart a bit. Since the Polish unit is OOS and hasn't made an attack, the Germans won't get a production bonus but lose the resource if they don't act. I haven't finalised it yet but what do you think?

[image]local://upfiles/47730/861A25C3B1F34DB4960470FC90D17355.jpg[/image]




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