Tyronec vs BrianG. 12.03 (Full Version)

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tyronec -> Tyronec vs BrianG. 12.03 (3/8/2020 10:16:48 AM)

Coming back to WITE after a 2 year break, it has been tricky getting familiar with the game again. Have forgotten so much about how the dynamics work and what to expect from combat results.

We are playing Random weather, Full blizzard, No bonus.

T1 and thought I would try something new for me and sent all of PG2 to AGS.

AGN and AGC went more or less to plan.
Had some difficulties with AGS, had intended to isolate the circled group of units but ran into some strong Tank divisions and failed to complete the encirclement.
So there are a lot of units here that are just ZOC locked.
L'Vov pocket as normal.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/CF85027A84044A49BD2D84810588AA56.jpg[/image]




tyronec -> T2 (3/8/2020 10:27:07 AM)

AGN is all OK, get a couple of divisions across the river at Pskov.

AGC and Brian is holding a forward delaying action. Isolate the 4 divisions circled, it won't hold but can cut them off properly next turn. Also ZOC lock another division just south.

AGS. Brian did the 'bomb and attack' the Panzer unit on the Romanian border and got a fortunate result to open the L'Vov pocket.
I reclose it and make an expanded pocket grabbing a few more divisions in the process, hoping that this would hold for next turn.
Rather than move a lot of PG2 up to AGC have instead transferred most of them to PG1 and switched the frozen PG1 units to PG2. Has cost a lot of admin points but is going to get more panzers fighting quicker.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/1CB5C28B51254F58A02B2A3796CBA287.jpg[/image]




Gamer64 -> RE: T2 (3/8/2020 10:43:16 AM)

With no +1, Brian must have got lucky in the south. I'm of the view parking an entire division there is required, but that makes super Lvov harder.

Good Luck!

Gamer




tyronec -> T3. (3/8/2020 10:43:37 AM)

AGN. Not many Soviets around, just grab some terrain with the Panzers.

AGC. Vitebsk area - have three Panzer corps moving in.
Have all 5 divisions near Minsk properly isolated, is tying up a whole Panzer Corps and am not 100% sure if am doing the right thing here. Pockets should hold unless he relieves with more units.

AGS. Not good, Brian pulls off another borderline attack and opens up the whole pocket.
Try to do some herding as best I can but a couple of divisions get routed out. Have sealed it all again and hopefully this time all will be OK. Have done my best to keep a 3 hex corridor just south of the marshes.
Am making mistakes here because am not up to speed with what is likely to happen with combats and how much movement Soviet units are getting, guess it is all experience.
Push down to Odessa and isolate some Soviets, should have used another unit here...
The good news down South is at least the FBDs have not been held up at all.
Feeling somewhat nervous about what is going to come back next turn.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/06C35849FCE54191B6B0195CD14471D7.jpg[/image]




Telemecus -> RE: T3. (3/8/2020 1:42:52 PM)

@tyronec welcome back you are missed!




EwaldvonKleist -> RE: T3. (3/8/2020 7:25:47 PM)

+1!
Regarding the Southern Lvov pocket, there is a safer variation: Have the southernmost regiment one hex West compared to your setup (in Novoselitzky).
Then again, it is completely human to miss such a detail during the daunting T1. Although I have some doubts whether you aren't in fact an AI given your output of turns [:D]

It looks like you have already bagged some extra units in the South-good job with that! Do the Soviets even have the ability to rail out from the South with the new rail rules? (not that Brian would bother running away even if he could).




tyronec -> T4 (3/10/2020 8:33:33 PM)

Thanks for the kind words guys.

AGN. Get across the river, though the spearhead is a bit thin. there doesn't seem to be that much defending Leningrad, guess I will find out over the next few moves.

AGC. Mop up the pockets from last turn. No defence of the land bridge so that Panzer Corps being held up did no harm

AGS. Another setback, this time the pocket was broken by a marauding Cav. division. Hope it is better sealed this time and have not routed anything out. Seal off a couple of divisions around Odessa.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/D8111752EA1D4923BC7CD4B13B59CA12.jpg[/image]




821Bobo -> RE: T4 (3/11/2020 10:12:47 AM)

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tyronec -> T5. (3/12/2020 8:22:10 PM)

AGN. Fairly quiet, Soviets are keeping at the limits of my supply range.

AGC. Again Soviets are mostly retreating so no combat at all. Pocket a couple of units left behind, took two Panzer Corps to do this and he can likely break it next turn but am not going to refuse anything on offer..

AGS. My pocket finally holds, quite a relief. Have caught a few extra units in this pocket and routed very little out so not really sure who has benefited the most from it being held open. Leave a couple of Corps and the Romanians to clear it out and build up ready to assault below Kiev.
In the South just fail and assault across the swampy river so that will have to wait till next turn; no defence of Odessa.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/1E2B6E6D1A8845B4A1510929BCAC45E2.jpg[/image]




eskuche -> RE: T5. (3/12/2020 9:33:54 PM)

Interesting openers =)

As a newer player, I'm curious about your ratio of retreat/holds. Also, anything interesting in the air, and what game version is this?




xhoel -> RE: T5. (3/13/2020 12:32:09 AM)

Good job with everything so far. Very fast progress. Don't know why Brian is not putting up any resistance. In the newest patch it is much more worth it for the Soviets.




eskuche -> RE: T5. (3/13/2020 3:06:09 PM)

Xhoel why do you say that? Because of limited rail capacity?




xhoel -> RE: T5. (3/13/2020 5:55:31 PM)

@eskuche: I say that because of the experience bug fix and the increased manpower multipliers.

Both of these changes (which are good from my POV) mean that the Soviets can afford to lose more troops during the summer of 1941 since they can: a) replace losses more efficiently because of the increased manpower multipliers and b) they can train destroyed formations a lot faster.

So a running away strategy is not the best course of action. I have no idea why Bran didn't hold on to the landbridge. He could have delayed the Germans there for some time.




tyronec -> T6 (3/14/2020 11:49:17 AM)

quote:

As a newer player, I'm curious about your ratio of retreat/holds. Also, anything interesting in the air, and what game version is this?

No change since we started, still 12.03.

The game is beginning to settle down and can see how the Soviets are going to play, at least for now.
Strongish defence up in the North against Finland. Zhukov is around Leningrad with reasonable forces.
No solid line in the center yet, so looks like they are delaying fighting in front of Moscow until forced to when my FBD gets a bit closer.
Retreated from Kiev without defending the river, but some stronger forces in the Crimea.
They do some unit bombing each turn and one attack against AGN where there was an exposed division.

Last time I played, a couple of years ago, the maximum Axis could achieve in '41 was Leningrad/Moscow/Rostov/Sevastapol is everything went very well, so will try for that and not sure if it is possible.

Finland. Get a fortunate good combat result and am across the river.

Leningrad is the first priority, AGN is a bit thin. Thought of moving PG3 up but that would keep them out of action for too long. Instead I start shifting a lot of pioneers to OKH and fly all the bombers from AGC up. Manage to pocket one stack using all the Panzers, hope it will hold.

AGC, Soviets just pulling back. They were a bit thin in the North so advance with one Panzer corps and push a couple of units out of the way. Just 10 hexes from Moscow ! Not sure if it is worth it but do an HQBuildup with another corps, if I can get the infantry closer to Moscow quickly it has got to be good.

AGS. Kiev - just following up, leave one panzer corps from PG2 here waiting to push north and join the battle for Moscow.

South. Have moved all of PG1 down towards the Crimes, hoping Brian won't spot them this turn. Aiming to push into the Crimea next turn and start assaulting Sevastapol asap while using most of the panzers to push towards Satlino and Rostov.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/F810FD9CDFD342BEAC6A684AAB94E628.jpg[/image]




tyronec -> T7 (3/15/2020 1:15:54 PM)

Finns grind forwards in the North, most Soviet units have withdrawn. That one fortunate attack across the river makes all the difference.

AGN. Soviets broke my pocket with a lucky attack, though didn't get anything out. Reseal it better and take a few more hexes. Just don't have enough units to do much towards Valdai. Think I should have sent 2nd Army up North a few moves back. having to change around all my artillery because hadn't realised some of them are so much better against forts.

AGC. Looking to open up Valdai from the South, so attack there with some of 2nd Army and the Panzer Corps that did the HQBuildup last turn, make a wee pocket. Am hoping that the threat of a big pocket will force the Soviets to pull back and give the AGN FBD a clear run East.

Advance 2 more hexes towards Moscow, can only use Panzers on alternate moves because of lack of supply.

AGS. Soviet defences were a bit thin around Chernagov so was able to cut through and make a weak pocket with the PG2 panzer Corps. They are short of fuel but hopefully can work their way up to Moscow now.

Crimea. Looks like Brian had not spotted the extra 2 Panzer Corps around Nikolaev. Cut through into the Crimea and make a good pocket, overrunning a few air bases in the process.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/EE8B443C26CF42FC91BD693E952496AB.jpg[/image]




Telemecus -> RE: T7 (3/15/2020 3:09:48 PM)

From another thread but I thought worth quoting as presumably from this game


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrianG

oranienbaum fort

I can confirm this fort is now tough nut to crack.

now 3 and 0 in battles

just survived a 20:1 German attack, fort dropped from 4.22 to 4.12.

I now advise never disbanding it!!!




tyronec -> T8 (3/16/2020 4:00:37 PM)

Tried attacking Oranienbaum with a regiment this turn, probably not worth it.

Fairly quiet turn, surprisingly all four pockets held and got them cleared out.

Soviets did a some counter attacks, routing a couple of Infantry Divs where my line is thin by surrounding them with Cav. and then a mass attack. Don't like this but at least it ties up a lot of troops who could otherwise be defending Moscow.

Reasonable progress towards Leningrad and now 5 hexes from Moscow, but really the Soviets are just pulling back against AGC and AGS so just have to be patient. A lot of mud on the map this turn too.

Not sure if they will defend Sevastapol but my guess is probably not.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/DCDD97F48C1840659DB292774ABA5E64.jpg[/image]




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T5. (3/16/2020 9:21:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Good job with everything so far. Very fast progress. Don't know why Brian is not putting up any resistance. In the newest patch it is much more worth it for the Soviets.


The diminished rail capacity turns 1-3 is hard for the Soviets to get a semi-good defense in place during those turns. But starting turn 4 the Soviets can rail units right up to the front in front of where the Germans are where before those units would have to walk because the rail was used to moved industry. With such an increasing rail capacity the Soviets can pretty much move all the new reinforcements to the front and still move out all of their Industry.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T7 (3/16/2020 9:25:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec



Crimea. Looks like Brian had not spotted the extra 2 Panzer Corps around Nikolaev. Cut through into the Crimea and make a good pocket, overrunning a few air bases in the process.





Very nice pocket in the Crimea.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T7 (3/16/2020 9:27:14 PM)

Are you willing to post the OOB and loss screen?




Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: T7 (3/16/2020 9:52:27 PM)

Good to see you back posting HLYA [:)] - you've been missed! Are you back playing also or just observing?

I think given the big changes in the current patch Brian is probably sensible in playing a more conservative 'force preservation' game and waiting to see if opportunities arise from things like the performance of the Axis supply network in mud/blizzard; enhanced defence of the big urban centres at the typical 'end point' of the 41 offensive; and the possibility that a higher experience Soviet army could cause bigger problems in the winter blizzard - all of which are unknowns at the moment I think.





HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T7 (3/16/2020 10:07:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Good to see you back posting HLYA [:)] - you've been missed! Are you back playing also or just observing?

I think given the big changes in the current patch Brian is probably sensible in playing a more conservative 'force preservation' game and waiting to see if opportunities arise from things like the performance of the Axis supply network in mud/blizzard; enhanced defence of the big urban centres at the typical 'end point' of the 41 offensive; and the possibility that a higher experience Soviet army could cause bigger problems in the winter blizzard - all of which are unknowns at the moment I think.




Thank you. I am back. Much needed break.


Yes, I agree with the force preservation. Brian will have masses of men coming in and will be able to move every single one of them by train every turn to get them where he needs to have them. Unlike the old days where they would have to walk to the front over multiple weeks they will be at the front same turn or the 2nd week easily since there is rail for units and rail for industry in abundance. I have played two games as the Soviets in 12.3 and it is a very fast buildup for the Soviets. Tyronec will have a mass influx of units, not to mention the units have better exp and morale gain than in 11.3. Also of note that when Soviet Armor division transform into brigades they "don't" loose exp and morale. This is huge and makes the brigades really nasty during the blizzard. Tyronec is doing very well and hope to see him capture both big cities.




Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: T7 (3/16/2020 10:30:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

Good to see you back posting HLYA [:)] - you've been missed! Are you back playing also or just observing?

I think given the big changes in the current patch Brian is probably sensible in playing a more conservative 'force preservation' game and waiting to see if opportunities arise from things like the performance of the Axis supply network in mud/blizzard; enhanced defence of the big urban centres at the typical 'end point' of the 41 offensive; and the possibility that a higher experience Soviet army could cause bigger problems in the winter blizzard - all of which are unknowns at the moment I think.




Thank you. I am back. Much needed break.


Yes, I agree with the force preservation. Brian will have masses of men coming in and will be able to move every single one of them by train every turn to get them where he needs to have them. Unlike the old days where they would have to walk to the front over multiple weeks they will be at the front same turn or the 2nd week easily since there is rail for units and rail for industry in abundance. I have played two games as the Soviets in 12.3 and it is a very fast buildup for the Soviets. Tyronec will have a mass influx of units, not to mention the units have better exp and morale gain than in 11.3. Also of note that when Soviet Armor division transform into brigades they "don't" loose exp and morale. This is huge and makes the brigades really nasty during the blizzard. Tyronec is doing very well and hope to see him capture both big cities.


Good to hear. Hope the break has treated you well.

One brief question (I don't want to sidetrack the thread too much). I'd like to play vs another human in the future (probably when WITE2 comes out). But at the moment the barrier is that I am a chronically slow player. Do you have any tips on how you get through games so quick? Is it a self-fulfilling thing i.e. if you force yourself to play quickly you have more opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them and work out what areas need a bit more care? Or shortcuts in terms of managing the UI? Or am I just born dopey and doomed to take 20x as long to do the exact same things as other players do [:(] ?!




Telemecus -> RE: T7 (3/17/2020 9:26:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive
One brief question (I don't want to sidetrack the thread too much). I'd like to play vs another human in the future (probably when WITE2 comes out). But at the moment the barrier is that I am a chronically slow player. Do you have any tips on how you get through games so quick? Is it a self-fulfilling thing i.e. if you force yourself to play quickly you have more opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them and work out what areas need a bit more care? Or shortcuts in terms of managing the UI? Or am I just born dopey and doomed to take 20x as long to do the exact same things as other players do [:(] ?!


Being a slow player is quite common and not something to be ashamed of. Yes it is frustrating for a faster player. But then the obvious thing is to be upfront about it and match up with someone of the same speed of which there are many. I know many players who may not be slow per se, but with work, kids and family it is a hobby they can only do occasionally every other weekend or so. Others do just like to ponder their next moves and for them that is part of the fun. And to some extent being fast usually means you do have to ignore some of the micromanagement the game allows you to do - so that is a choice to forego it too.

So definitely not dopey - just you have to match yourself with others like you. Or if you do want to go faster decide which elements of gameplay you will forego.




tyronec -> RE: T7 (3/17/2020 10:10:31 AM)

quote:

Are you willing to post the OOB and loss screen?

Will do when I get the next move back.
Am playing this game very much in the dark as to where the play balance is and what recent patches have done to both sides, just pushing forwards as fast as I can and will see what happens.

As to playing fast, I have always been a fast player right back from playing Chess at school. If someone wants to play at one turn a week/fortnight or whatever it is easy enough, just post for an opponent with your criteria.




MagicMissile -> RE: T7 (3/17/2020 11:14:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:



As to playing fast, I have always been a fast player right back from playing Chess at school.


That is funny I was exactly the same when I played chess when I was young. Had no patience [:)]. But time matters as in chess if you spend twice the amount to think you will probably have an advantage so yes I guess it is good to find a player with the same playing style.

Sorry for off topic.

/MM




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T7 (3/17/2020 3:03:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Are you willing to post the OOB and loss screen?

Will do when I get the next move back.
Am playing this game very much in the dark as to where the play balance is and what recent patches have done to both sides, just pushing forwards as fast as I can and will see what happens.

As to playing fast, I have always been a fast player right back from playing Chess at school. If someone wants to play at one turn a week/fortnight or whatever it is easy enough, just post for an opponent with your criteria.


Thank you Tyronec. After playing the Soviets in 12.3 twice the growth rate seems much faster than normal.




tyronec -> T9 (3/18/2020 3:07:18 PM)

Losses up to end T9

[image]local://upfiles/52296/6420A9731D464BFDB9A8FAA71F43DCB4.jpg[/image]




tyronec -> RE: T9 (3/18/2020 3:19:03 PM)

Leningrad. Attacks went OK and can hopefully clear the swamp next turn and then assault across the river T11. I tried assaulting the fort with regiments, 3 attacks did nothing at all, will give up and wait for it to be isolated and surrender that way.

Below Lake Ilmen had several failed attacks and didn't get my hoped for pocket; should have done better here. At least they are pulling back from the river so minimal hold up of the FBD.

Moscow. One line of Level 3 forts but looks like the Soviets haven't got their defences fully up yet, so ready to begin to assault. Have done an HQB in the hope that can get a couple of hexes forwards next turn.

AGS. Have got too many Panzers here, should maybe have sent another Corps further north. Anyway as they are here will see if I can have a go at taking Stalino early and degrade some Soviet industry.

Crimea. Some defence of Sevastapol but doesn't look like their best units. Two corps lining up for the assault, will see if I can get it cleared before winter; new rules permitting !

Soviets did too well with bombing last turn against me rather spread out forces so am concentrating the Luftwaffe at just the three spearheads.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/91F786B96BA243A6AB2A5EC7E5726960.jpg[/image]




tyronec -> T10 (3/19/2020 5:16:29 PM)

We have upgraded to 12.04.
Position at the start of the turn.

Leningrad, not sure whether to attack into Leningrad or push North and cut off all the ports. Too long since I have played this game and finding it difficult to evaluate the chances of each.

Moscow. A few options but am going to have to go through those 3-level forts somehow.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/87AFD7001BE146CB9795CC711839C2F8.jpg[/image]




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