Accelerating Drydock Repairs (Full Version)

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dr.hal -> Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 10:14:18 PM)

A few things that bother me and I don't understand any underlying reasoning center around two aspects of shipyard drydock repairs. Why is it in some cases with a vessel in one shipyard the work can be "accelerated" and it will actually reduce the days in which a ship is in the yard, while in another yard (both with more than enough capacity to take said vessel) this same clicking will have no impact even if you click it up to "critical" (and I'm not talking about upgrades here which I know can't be accelerated)? Another bothersome item that has crossed my mind is the "overloading" of a ship yard. When a ship is in the yard getting repaired (again note, NOT upgraded) and you DO accelerate the repairs and it DOES have an impact (length of days to repair shortened) BUT that when you do such a move you advance the tonnage within the yard to "RED" (thus above the capacity of the shipyard) does this negatively impact repairs (note that the indication is that the yard is overloaded yet the time of repairs is also reduced)? As an example you have CA that has battle damage and it goes into drydock to get repairs, the CA is 9850 tons and the yard capacity is 10K. Without acceleration all is good, but when you click to speedup repairs you are way over the limit in tons the yard can handle, yet you actually have NOT put anything more into drydock, and the work DOES go on quicker! So is this nothing more that a program problem? Or is there real (game wise) adverse ramifications? In such a case I've noticed no adverse impact (of course except that supply is used at a quicker rate, which is expected). The tonnage numbers turning red don't seem to have any real impact. Anyone find out anything different? OR is the yard really overloaded and using LOTS more supply than an accelerated ship would use if not overloading the yard? So many questions, so little time.




RangerJoe -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 10:26:42 PM)

When you speed up repairs, it multiplies the tonnage of the ship being repaired to show the resources used. That can send the shipyard into the Red to show that it is overloaded. This can affect other ships being repaired. If repairs are not critically needed, I would not bother. Some ships are probably best set to Low priority if they are not really needed, such as cargo and transport vessels that do need the shipyard.




btd64 -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 10:57:21 PM)

There are other factor at work here. Such as Naval support, tenders and the port size( I believe). I read about this somewhere, but search isn't bringing up what I want....GP




dr.hal -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 11:01:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

When you speed up repairs, it multiplies the tonnage of the ship being repaired to show the resources used. That can send the shipyard into the Red to show that it is overloaded. This can affect other ships being repaired. If repairs are not critically needed, I would not bother. Some ships are probably best set to Low priority if they are not really needed, such as cargo and transport vessels that do need the shipyard.

I understand all this. It's not what I'm asking.




dr.hal -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 11:04:18 PM)

Good point about naval support, I've not counted that into the picture. However I was under the impression (which can be VERY wrong) that the shipyard was a stand alone item with a stand alone capability not impacted by such things as naval support or other support ships that happen to be in harbor.




RangerJoe -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 11:07:42 PM)

It may also depend upon the type of damage that is being repair that we do not see.




btd64 -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 11:37:33 PM)

Dr. Hal, I bumped the ship repair guide. about midway down Alfred does talk about shipyards a little. I don't have the patients to look up anymore details but take a look. It may help....GP




geofflambert -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/16/2020 11:42:58 PM)

Some repairs can't be rushed and some repairs actually occur more slowly in drydock than pierside. Doesn't Alfred's thread on ship repairs cover all this? I think replacing BB guns or whole turrets is one thing and repairing flotation damage another. BB guns have to be ordered and aren't just lying around and the same for major ship engines or boilers, whereas with flotation damage, as long as the ship fits into the drydock it can be repaired, and more resources being applied can accelerate those repairs but slow down repairs on other ships. Major damage to BB, CA or CV steerage probably can't be hurried either. Those propellers and propulsion shafts don't grow on trees. Like drydock space, qualified welders would be a finite resource and by accelerating you might suck up all the welders in a port to work on a single ship. Adding shifts to work on one ship would subtract shifts to work on others, or just fatigue the workers so their production slows down.




geofflambert -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 12:05:23 AM)

I don't know, but I would think the presence of a certain tonnage of drydock space would assume a proportional amount of resources, in welders, in gantries and cranes, in machine shops and shops where plate steel can be fabricated into sections of hull, or bulkheads or ladders and masts etc. and so forth. Naval support would be additional and certainly couldn't hurt, but fixed resources to make the specific tonnage of drydock effective would be there with or without Naval Support.




geofflambert -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 12:11:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I don't have the patients to look up anymore details but take a look. ....GP



Are you a medical practitioner now and why do you put your patients to work?

Maybe that's your problem, you have a reputation for putting your patients to work, and that's why you don't have any patients.




btd64 -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 12:17:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I don't have the patients to look up anymore details but take a look. ....GP



Are you a medical practitioner now and why do you put your patients to work?


Spelling error. At least I don't eat mice, sir gorn[:D]....GP




RangerJoe -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 12:43:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I don't have the patients to look up anymore details but take a look. ....GP



Are you a medical practitioner now and why do you put your patients to work?


Spelling error. At least I don't eat mice, sir gorn[:D]....GP


You could have blamed it on autocorrect. I read where a guy apologized in a text message to his neighbor for using his wife at all times during the day and night. [X(] He said that he would not use the wife any more.

Then he sent a correction, stating Wi-Fi and blaming the mistake on autocorrect! [:@]




dcpollay -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 12:14:38 PM)

I used to have a guy that worked for me. He needed a client to do something to help him, so he sent a letter saying, "I lick you please to serve my needs."

Director's office got a phone call on that one. He used all of my patients in fairly short order.[:(]




dr.hal -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 12:53:17 PM)

Folks, while I appreciate the banter, my questions seem to be ignored! The repairs I'm talking about require a DRY DOCK (physically IN the drydock), thus not weapons or systems repairs as they don't require drydocking (that I'm aware of). Such weapons repairs may require a certain harbor or yard size but not the actual use of the drydock. I'm talking about hull or machinery damage that can not be repaired without drydocking. Why is it that in some ports a repair can be accelerated (thus reducing the number of days to repair) while the same repairs in another port, if accelerated, don't decrease the days required for the repair? Also if the acceleration of said ship puts the yard over it's limit (but in fact the tons being accommodated are NOT over the yard limit) is an additional penalty incurred (beyond the normal supply usage that acceleration requires)? Alfred's discourse doesn't address these anomalies.




Kursk1943 -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 1:17:55 PM)

Seems that you have to wait till Alfred is online again. Then you'll get a proper and maybe harsh answer...[;)]




btd64 -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 1:23:31 PM)

I believe that in game there is no difference between a shipyard and a drydock. IRL, yes. Unless you're referring to an ARD. But I still think that naval support, and the size of the port matter. Different levels of these things and the varying types of damage will result in different ships having different lengths of time in the "yards". These are based on my own observations....GP




RangerJoe -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 1:29:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Seems that you have to wait till Alfred is online again. Then you'll get a proper and maybe harsh answer...[;)]



+1 [:D]




dr.hal -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 3:25:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I believe that in game there is no difference between a shipyard and a drydock. IRL, yes. Unless you're referring to an ARD. But I still think that naval support, and the size of the port matter. Different levels of these things and the varying types of damage will result in different ships having different lengths of time in the "yards". These are based on my own observations....GP

Thanks GP, I appreciate it. Yes there are variables. I'll game it out and if I can, provide specific details.




dr.hal -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 3:30:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

Seems that you have to wait till Alfred is online again. Then you'll get a proper and maybe harsh answer...[;)]

I fear Alfred is getting a bad wrap here and in other posts. He has corresponded with me directly and to the point on this issue. Which is refreshing and effective. There is no BS or superfluous fluff with his correspondence as is often the case with posts found here. This might rub some the wrong way, but he is helpful and respectful. Hal




Ian R -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 3:50:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Folks, while I appreciate the banter, my questions seem to be ignored! The repairs I'm talking about require a DRY DOCK (physically IN the drydock), thus not weapons or systems repairs as they don't require drydocking (that I'm aware of). Such weapons repairs may require a certain harbor or yard size but not the actual use of the drydock. I'm talking about hull or machinery damage that can not be repaired without drydocking. Why is it that in some ports a repair can be accelerated (thus reducing the number of days to repair) while the same repairs in another port, if accelerated, don't decrease the days required for the repair? Also if the acceleration of said ship puts the yard over it's limit (but in fact the tons being accommodated are NOT over the yard limit) is an additional penalty incurred (beyond the normal supply usage that acceleration requires)? Alfred's discourse doesn't address these anomalies.


One thing we know for sure is that US Naval HQ, which in stock scenarios have no naval support squads, will not assist the repair process. Apparently they are just "Administrative Districts". Their ordinary support squads will help the marines recover, etc. Other naval HQs with integral NS will. The big naval base forces with naval support will. The tiny port service units with a few naval support will, just with less effect. And naval support squads have a "throw" effect to surrounding ports.

Sometimes you get a quicker result pierside, than in a dockyard, because you have port capacity, repair ships, and naval repair squads that can all contribute. You might get a second round of repairs, IIRC the explanation in Alfred's guide, where the reasons are described. On the other hand, if the ship is in the yard, that limits the amount of extra resources that can be tossed at it. Maybe to nil, apart from its own crew's efforts.

You will need to put a ship in the yard for, particularly major float or engine repairs (ARDs can do float), but there are numerical constraints. The figure 5 jumps to mind. Once however you reduce below the threshold, you are often better off pierside.

And don't forget, an experienced crew with a good captain can repair at least some minor sys damage. Not sure if they repair anything else at readiness state, because when a major fleet hits port I usually, for best results put

- <5 sys stay on readiness
- anything with engine damage goes pierside
- anything with major damage might need to go in the shipyard
- there are no hard rules, and some ships can often be prioritized without doing too much violence to the overall estimates.

After a couple of days when some of the littlies are ship-shape the estimates for the rest often reduce anyway.

All of which means that you will see repair time estimates for ships in the yard that are longer than pierside at equivalent priority; it may be worth leaving the 'yard only' major float to later and getting everything else done pierside first, so yard time is not wasted fixing system damage.

Some people have inthepast discussed shuffling ships into the yard when they are near 100% of a point to get the advantage of the accumulation of % from pierside applied to major float. I have never bothered taking the micro-management to that depth.

If you are in the red you are overruling the repair manager and putting more resources onto one ship than is efficient, while others are sitting waiting for attention. Obviously if you only have one damaged ship under repair this may not be a concern, but if you have 2 x 9850t ships at a 10k shipyard, it can only do one at a time, and giving one priority simply means it will go first.

Finally, Alfred has I think said supply is immaterial to ship repair. I may stand corrected, but that is my recollection there is no direct expenditure, per se. It may be relevant to feeding naval support squads at the port, etc.




geofflambert -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 3:54:15 PM)

I did discuss drydock and flotation repairs and that the resources went well beyond just the physical size of the drydock and that those other resources could via acceleration, be all used up with out filling the drydock completely as far a tonnage goes. Are you talking about something other than flotation repairs? As for differences between ports with the same tonnage capacity, I don't think naval support enables acceleration while lack of it prevents acceleration. Sounds like it might be a supply problem? Do you have specific examples? By the way, who's been disrespectful? Patton might very well be right that besides the inherent support present with a given tonnage of drydock, port size might represent additional resources that could be applied to acceleration.




geofflambert -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 4:34:04 PM)

14.2.3.1 ...the yard does it all, and neither Repair Ships nor Naval Support has any effect.

14.2.2.2 ...Shipyards and Repair Ship repair will only be available if the port has those repair abilities in port.

14.2.1.4 ...Major damage can be repaired by a size 4 port (or larger) except for ships with a tonnage greater than 499, which require a port of size tonnage/100. [if you read that entire paragraph it mentions this type of repair needing to be done in a shipyard or by a repair ship, so port size independent of yard size determines whether or not damage can be repaired]





Don Bowen -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 4:39:45 PM)


Remember that the shipyard repair process will always try to use all available shipyard capacity. Even if you do not specify any acceleration of repairs for any specific ship, the repair module may do just that on its own. To be specific:

Once all ships assigned to shipyard repair have been allocated the requested amount of capacity the repair module will use up any remaining by increasing the priority of repairs for one or more ships.

Which ships get the additional capacity is determined by an internal priority list - carriers at the top, then BB, cruisers, on down to landing craft.

Within each priority grouping, the largest ship or ships (by tonnage) that can be upgraded will be upgraded. If no ship in one priority group can be upgraded the next group will be checked, etc.

It is possible for all ships to be upgraded.

If there is only on ship in the shipyard it will be upgraded as far as the entire shipyard capacity allows.

What this all means to the original question is simply:
Manually increasing the priority of a given ship may have no effect if that ship is already marked by the repair module for automatic upgrade.

Use of priority upgrades (and downgrades) allows the player to override the automatic system.




geofflambert -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 4:46:02 PM)

14.2 ...Port size and Port capability now plays a major role in determining where a ship should be repaired, and how long the repair process takes.

That same paragraph mentions shipyards assisting in repairs, but I read this as Port size (not yard size) determines whether acceleration can occur. So, a port of size x might be able to support the repairs, whether it be pierside, shipyard or repair ship, while a port of size y might be able to expedite those repairs.

Are we getting somewhere here?




btd64 -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 5:12:57 PM)

Hey Don....GP




USSAmerica -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 5:48:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


Remember that the shipyard repair process will always try to use all available shipyard capacity. Even if you do not specify any acceleration of repairs for any specific ship, the repair module may do just that on its own. To be specific:

Once all ships assigned to shipyard repair have been allocated the requested amount of capacity the repair module will use up any remaining by increasing the priority of repairs for one or more ships.

Which ships get the additional capacity is determined by an internal priority list - carriers at the top, then BB, cruisers, on down to landing craft.

Within each priority grouping, the largest ship or ships (by tonnage) that can be upgraded will be upgraded. If no ship in one priority group can be upgraded the next group will be checked, etc.

It is possible for all ships to be upgraded.

If there is only on ship in the shipyard it will be upgraded as far as the entire shipyard capacity allows.

What this all means to the original question is simply:
Manually increasing the priority of a given ship may have no effect if that ship is already marked by the repair module for automatic upgrade.

Use of priority upgrades (and downgrades) allows the player to override the automatic system.


Good info and good to see you, Don! [8D]




MakeeLearn -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 6:01:43 PM)

Two weeks. It will be ready in two weeks.




dr.hal -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 7:21:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Manually increasing the priority of a given ship may have no effect if that ship is already marked by the repair module for automatic upgrade.

Hi Don and I think what you write above cuts to the actual heart of the question I was asking. It could be that the program has already maxed out and thus can do no more no matter how much I manipulate the dice! Thanks for responding.




witpqs -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 7:53:14 PM)

Hi, Don! [:)]




RangerJoe -> RE: Accelerating Drydock Repairs (2/17/2020 8:04:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Manually increasing the priority of a given ship may have no effect if that ship is already marked by the repair module for automatic upgrade.

Hi Don and I think what you write above cuts to the actual heart of the question I was asking. It could be that the program has already maxed out and thus can do no more no matter how much I manipulate the dice! Thanks for responding.


You were asking about repairs, not upgrades. Repairs and upgrades are two different things. Upgrades may increase the systems and/or flotation but those are not considered repairs. Upgrades can be on the lowest priority and will still be done in the same amount of time unless there is damage that needs to be repaired, then the total time might be longer.




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