Bit of News on Multiplayer (Full Version)

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kevinkins -> Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/11/2020 2:18:47 PM)

https://www.wargamer.com/articles/command-modern-operations-multiplayer/

Article dated Feb. 10, 2020.




Primarchx -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/11/2020 2:49:20 PM)

I've been on the fence about multiplayer over the years, but I'm open to it at this point. I think the parameters for professional multiplayer and casual player multiplayer are somewhat divergent. In particular I think the multiplayer experience in Command will be more tailored for the Pro environment and that us casual players will have to use that interface and accept the associated complications of a tool made for a training purpose and not entertainment. Just spit-ballin', though.




Gunner98 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/12/2020 7:31:04 PM)

I too have been on the fence about this - mostly for two reasons 1) distraction of the Dev's time & effort for a substantial capability, and 2) multi-player can change the face of the community, not always, but not always for the better either.

Two aspects of multi-player that I think would be useful even for the commercial player however are:

1) having a livening thinking enemy will make for a whole new experience, and
2) making very large scenarios (mia culpa) easier to play by dividing the workload.

As long as the Devs are building the capability for the pro edition and it can (or will) be easily transferred to the commercial edition, I'm OK with that and can come off the fence.

Watching but not holding my breath.

B




kevinkins -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/12/2020 10:12:35 PM)

I agree. Not holding my breath either. It's almost like people are afraid to show off their skills i.e. afraid to lose to a fellow community member. I know I would get my head handed to me. Don't care. But in the process it would be fun and maybe generated new ideas and friendships.

Kevin




thewood1 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/12/2020 10:29:36 PM)

One of the biggest issues is going to be finding people willing to commit to playing in short spurts. I'll play for 15 minutes before something from work or home intervenes. Its why I only poke around at multiplayer except in turn-based games.




kevinkins -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/12/2020 10:49:14 PM)

I think you could make Command "turned based" sort of like Combat Mission. That game has a small but very dedicated group of gamers exchanging files all the time. I am on the fence on this too. Is it worth the development time etc.? But I don't think a basic email system would be that cumbersome to develop. Would that be real time Command vs the AI? No. Interesting to play another human? Definitely Yes.

Kevin




thewood1 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/12/2020 11:27:42 PM)

I am very familiar with CM. And right now, Command is not really capable of WEGO with out some way to effectively review what has happened in the turn. The recorder is fidgety, resource hungry, and not really suitable for a WEGO-like game.




kevinkins -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/12/2020 11:52:55 PM)

The player really only needs the message log. Yes, rewinding the turn would be cool. But I think a basic WEGO system is in the reach of the developers within maybe a day or two of programming. Everything is in place. But this is one of those "nice to have" features. Twenty Five years ago, we all got into playing wargames via email. I would like to try Command against another human even if the system is not perfect. I am thinking we will have Multiplayer by the end of the year. Just a guess however. I have seen stats that only about 10% of wargamers play head to head against another human. Nice to try with Command? Yes. Critical for the developers? No.

Kevin




Primarchx -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/13/2020 12:33:20 AM)

I'm not sure why turn-based would work in a real-time game. Wouldn't each player just play in the time-stream with some sort of mutual agreement time compression function?




thewood1 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/13/2020 10:29:27 AM)

Its sort fo set up now with the time increment run time. But again, without a real granular replay ability, I am skeptical it would work. I think MP in large scenarios would be a mess if played in increments.




DWReese -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (2/13/2020 10:48:10 AM)

Sorry, but I have no interest in the game having a multiplayer option.

I do recognize that others like it, but I would never use it. To me, it's similar to the TacView option, which I don't use either.




Wasicun -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/3/2020 12:55:48 PM)

Coop missions will be great (i use Us Air force, my friend US Navy).
Come on guys, it's 2020. Almost every game has a multiplayer section.




goldfinger35 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/3/2020 3:04:22 PM)

Time for gameplay is a problem in most missions so Multiplayer would work for me only if each side has preparation time depending on complexity of mission (for example 15 minutes) to review the map, set up missions etc. and then mission would play on time compression for example 15 minutes, than each side has 5 minutes to re-tweak etc.




Dimitris -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/3/2020 4:03:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins
I think you could make Command "turned based" sort of like Combat Mission.
Kevin


An astute observation.




exsonic01 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 2:09:00 AM)

+1 to WEGO style turn-based system.

One of the reasons is time compression for ASW and navy operations. Timescale and length scale of air ops, naval ops, and ground ops are different. Full real-time will create an issue of "when and who will decide the initiation of time compression". It is possible to introduce a voting system for time compression in a real-time system, but there is a chance of trolling players ruin any MP game experience. IGOUGO turn games are not perfect, since it can make first turn player too good (depending on the scenario) or can make a particular player too favorable depending on the situation.

So I think WEGO style system can be a good solution.

Also, it would be interesting to introduce a system of different command aspects based on faction, just like Flashpoint Campaigns. Such as the limit of the possible number of orders per turn, which can vary with the morale of the force, HQ unit's status, or other conditions. Or, different turn cycle of command turn and execute turn based on factions.






Sardaukar -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 6:09:54 AM)

+1 for WEGO too. Worked decently well for CM-series.




1nutworld -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 1:37:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DWReese

Sorry, but I have no interest in the game having a multiplayer option.

I do recognize that others like it, but I would never use it. To me, it's similar to the TacView option, which I don't use either.


Here here! As far as I am concerned, it would be a waste of Devs resources and time. I thought I'd enjoy using TacView, but once my trial ended, I didn't pay for the full license because I didn't find it worth my investment.

I understand those that want multi-player, but I imagine it would end up unintentionally like GTV with no rules being followed and nothing "realistic" which is the opposite of the purpose of CMO as far as I am concerned




Gunner98 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 1:53:46 PM)

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.




thewood1 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 2:27:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



Mine too.




Primarchx -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 2:42:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.




CV60 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 2:56:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.

quote:

I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.


I agree with Primarchx




TitaniumTrout -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 3:02:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Primarchx


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

+1

From a sim point of view - Multi-point is probably more appropriate than Multi-player - I think there may be some value in that for Cooperative command of a side.

Multi-player seems to me to be more of a game function than a sim function. We could debate what CMO is: game, or sim, or both until the cows come home - it doesn't matter. Game implies an opponent as opposed to cooperative play. To me this involves a bag of snakes that we just don't want or need to open. In addition to Dev time - and I suspect it would be substantial, scenarios would need to be re-built or at least re-balanced.

I agree that this might be the same as several modules in the past: Campaigns, Cargo to a lesser extent and TacView. Lots of noise by a few caused the Devs to channel finite resources into an area that is seldom if ever used, or used by a very few.

Anyway that's my grumpy $.02CAD for a Monday morning.



I'm not sure I grok that. I could certainly see the value of an oppositional multiplayer game. Playing against a human is leaps and bounds more challenging than against the AI (in most cases, at least), though certainly not without it's own drawbacks. Multiplayer cooperative is also desirable.


If Dimitris's comment was a hint, I'm super pumped for a CMO that is WEGO multiplayer. Regardless of how it works I could see it being a lot of fun. Hunting a carrier group that is played by a player is going to present so much more of a challenge. I ran some referee'd MP matches where I played the middleman and some of the crazy stuff people did made it very challenging.




kevinkins -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/4/2020 11:21:39 PM)

Sort of odd while we are all at home that Dimitris does not release the MP they are working on for retail. Now is the time to test it out before many go back to work.

Kevin




Parel803 -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/5/2020 1:40:21 PM)

The WEGO sounds nice. Communication and divided responsibilities on the same side would be interesting. It's a difficult trade in the real world I guess :-)




kevinkins -> RE: Bit of News on Multiplayer (5/7/2020 12:49:10 PM)

Many probably have seen this, but might as well post it here too since it contains more info on WEGO from Pro:

https://www.warfaresims.com/?p=5076




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