Should Gibraltar be a fortress hex? (Full Version)

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tacfire -> Should Gibraltar be a fortress hex? (12/28/2019 6:16:52 PM)

I just finished playing through my first game as Axis. Overall I think it is a pretty good game, the AI could use more polish of course, but I think its a good first effort for a game of this type.

Regarding Gibraltar - I found it was almost too easy to capture after the Axis takes or aligns Spain to their side. Just blockade the port and pound it with air for a few turns, then hit it with some good land units.

By comparison, Sevastopol (a fortress hex) is a much tougher nut to crack.

Maybe Gibraltar should be a fortress hex to make it more difficult to capture from the land side? The unique terrain of Gibraltar almost makes it a natural land fortress no?

Cohen_slith -> RE: Perhaps Gibraltar be a fortress hex? (12/28/2019 6:53:07 PM)

I think it's fine as it is.
Given in the current game incarnation, to close the Mediterranean is not a very strong strategy because ports are magically in supply and 'transports' are created out thin blue.

Like, Allies land in Marocco, advance up to Oran, and then from there can invade in the Mediterranean even if Gibraltar is in Axis hands.

aspqrz02 -> RE: Should Gibraltar be a fortress hex? (12/28/2019 11:53:00 PM)

The reasons Gib is too easy to capture are several departures from reality to make it so ...

* In reality, the isthmus connecting Gibraltar to the Spanish mainland was around 800 meters wide and a flat, open, plain. Not the two hexes wide in the game.

* In reality, Gibraltar *was* a fortress, and mountainous terrain to boot.

* There were no beaches on which an amphibious landing could have taken place. None. Neither side of the isthmus.

* More importantly, the Spanish rail net was ... to put it kindly ... grossly inadequate. It had been badly damaged during the recently ended Civil War, generally didn't go where it was really needed to go, had limited rolling stock AND ran on a different gauge to the rest of western Europe which meant all logistics from over the border had to be unloaded from Standard gauge rolling stock and then reloaded on Broad gauge rolling stock.

IF all that is implemented, then any German plan to take Gibraltar will have a very high likelihood of failing. Of course, none of it is.

Have a look at the Historical Map Mod I posted in the Mods section ... it shows a realistic take on Spain and Gibraltar in a geographical sense.

The actual German plan for the assault on Gibraltar (armies have plans for pretty much everything, no matter how unlikely or impossible), Operation Felix, IIRC, involved one Assault (Mountain?) Division supported by a Battalion (ONE Battalion) of tanks and a whole ****load of artillery ... all the superheavy stuff they had that could get there (no railroads near enough for RR guns) and as much 'regular' 150 mm Howitzer regiments as they could reasonably mass plus a whole Luftflotte (for example, the DAK was supported by one for most of its existence, two for the periods when it was most successful and, IIRC, there were three in Russia?). No Paras. No Amphibious assault. All across that 800 meter wide open plain facing a fortified mountain!

Phil McGregor

AlvaroSousa -> RE: Should Gibraltar be a fortress hex? (12/29/2019 12:08:56 AM)

Pretty much what aspqrz02 says is true.

But this is a game. Since the UK can put a corps in that hex I need to allow 1 beach so a corps can attack it. To take it by sea requires a lot of effort.

Smart UK player will keep a large fleet there, put men in French North Africa, and an airforce. You can't stop it but you can delay it enough to piss off the Germans.

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