Not Responding (Full Version)

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mamnich24 -> Not Responding (12/27/2019 8:06:43 PM)

Dear Guys,
Just downloaded and patched TOAW4. When I click on play game, the initial screen comes up, but when I try to click anything like file, sound, options it sits there and says it is not responding.
I'm using Windows 10. I installed in my d drive under programs files (x86) (basically kept folder string same, just used d drive at the beginning.
Suggestions?
Thanks,
Mike




Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (12/28/2019 11:34:59 AM)

The install location shouldn't matter. But you could try to install to d:\games, as there's no need for the folder to be named the same.

First thing I'd try is turning off sound, if you are able to get to it at all that is.
Otherwise you could try the ini setting nosound=Y but I'm not sure this is the actual setting for turning off music/sound in-game.

You could also try running "Opart 4 - Slow.exe" instead.
Or try running it in compatibility mode for Win7.




rhinobones -> RE: Not Responding (12/28/2019 1:56:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

You could also try running "Opart 4 - Slow.exe" instead.


“Opart 4 - Slow.exe” for playing solo against the computer works just fine, but be aware that you will have a compatibility problem if playing PBM against an opponent using "Opart 4.exe". My experience has been that "Opart 4 - Slow.exe" will not open PBL files created with "Opart 4.exe”.

Regards




cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (12/29/2019 12:12:52 PM)

Shadrach,

I have the same issue.

The original 4.X.X.11 install works on my PC. The upgrade version locks up on the initial screen. Tried the slow version; no change. Tried Win7 compatibility; no change.

Cheers




cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (12/29/2019 12:43:34 PM)

Also noted the .40 program created a 0-byte Opart 4.ini file in the "My Games" directory. I copied over an older .ini file that worked with the .11 version, but the program still hangs upon startup.

Cheers




Lobster -> RE: Not Responding (12/29/2019 1:43:22 PM)

Things like this happen when there are not enough testers. If the handful of testers have machines that do not have this same problem then it will not be caught. Just my 2 cents. Not that anyone asked. [;)]




stransky43 -> RE: Not Responding (12/29/2019 5:37:09 PM)

Same problem here - game hangs on startup.

No issues prior to applying the latest patch, so something is not right with the patch.




Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (12/29/2019 11:36:07 PM)

For the hang issue, if none of the fixes above work, report it to the Helpdesk:
https://www.matrixgames.com/member/helpdesk

Not sure how much good it will do but you are paying customers and entitled to technical support. At least it will make them aware of the issues...

I have tools on my machine to help me debug such hang situations, but it's not easy to explain the steps needed.




Lobster -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 2:24:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stransky43

Same problem here - game hangs on startup.

No issues prior to applying the latest patch, so something is not right with the patch.


Just wondering. Did you guys install the game in the default directory or did you put it someplace else? I see the OP put it in a different directory, just wondering if all of you did.

You could also go through the drivers routine. Probably won't fix it but it won't hurt either.

The fact that many others have no problem with the software would indicate a possible machine specific problem so that's why people are urged to update their drivers.




Lobster -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 2:41:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mamnich24

Dear Guys,
Just downloaded and patched TOAW4. When I click on play game,


So when you say you click on Play Game you are talking about the game's launch application right? Because that's the only place where that phrase is used. Did you try going to the exe file in the TOAWIV folder and starting the game from there?




cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 5:20:24 AM)

Lobster, mine is installed in the default location.

Not sure about the drivers. If .11 runs without issue, what about .40 causes an issue? All other software on the laptop run fine; the laptop itself is about a year old.

Thought I would finally move up to the latest version. I guess not!

Cheers




cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 5:22:00 AM)

quote:

Did you try going to the exe file in the TOAWIV folder and starting the game from there?


Hi Lobster,

I've tried both. The launcher application seems to work, has sound, etc. But when I launch the game from there, or directly run the exe file from the TOAW IV folder, it reaches the initial screen but never loads the first menu.

Cheers




cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 8:32:17 AM)

Update 2. "Fix" was not complete. I have .40 TOAWIV running on my laptop, but it did not put the stock scenarios on the drive (I have an empty scenario directory in the user games area).

Update. Version .40 is now working on my laptop.

The "fix". I started the program and just let it cook. Something like 30 to 40 minutes later, it advanced to the next screen.

Now, it starts immediately without the lengthy delay.

Question: On first start, does it do something file-intensive, like unpacking compressed files or something similar?

For others experiencing the "hung screen", try letting it sit for a half hour or so and see if it does something.

Cheers




Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 10:49:06 AM)

Cathar: That's interesting. What I know is that on first run, the game will create the folder structure under Documents, as well as create the default ini files. It will also copy the Sound and My Fonts directories from the installation folder. So if you have a *really really really* slow harddrive it might take a bit. However, it would need to be like 1982-harddrive slow, or hosted on a slow-ass NAS/external drive [:'(]

My guess: Some security/AV software running on your system decided to scan all the files being copied. It really shouldn't take 30 minutes though... [&:]




Lobster -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 11:51:58 AM)

At least you got it through whatever bottle neck it had. It's like back in the day when FitE took forever to load.




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 12:05:00 PM)

no issues

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4742231&mpage=1&key=�

test finished, results posting asap




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 12:24:57 PM)

click shortcut to game loading less then a few seconds


[image]local://upfiles/43185/5396432D8727426F94BC3B6BA6B848DB.jpg[/image]




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 12:25:26 PM)

including time to make screenshot and post it


[image]local://upfiles/43185/19DD6201436B4336ABA8155F83D32927.jpg[/image]




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 12:28:04 PM)

opening and map game campaign less than a few seconds, including the time to make a screenshot, post it and upload it


[image]local://upfiles/43185/5329D2C8F01E419A80F88EEDC988E29A.jpg[/image]




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 12:32:15 PM)

it's plain and simple, if it's slower for you, then yes hardware is an issue, or permissions etc, install as admin and run as admin, there are no permissions issue

laptops are slower, for a start they use 5400 speed hard drives, sometimes better, so depends on age,,,

then you have CPU, laptop, forget it, as running on batteries can be 4 times slower than the same speed desktop.

memory, normally again the cheapest of the cheap in laptops and most desktop unless gaming rigs.

add in to the equation than most of you load that much junk on startup your windows 10 install may take all day to load, lol, where as a good windows 10 install on a SSD will be less than 8 to 12 seconds from a cold boot on a desktop, on a fresh install, nothing but default running and installed...

errors that can be replicated can be fixed, errors which are your own, can only be sorted if you post in the tech report section, where as more details of your hardware will be asked, then advice given to a given setup will be received to make it run as good as your hardware and whatever software your using, as long as it doesn't conflict, which then options are uninstall it, or the game, as we can't re write your other programs for you to work with a game, same as drivers, if they work great, if they don't, same answer replies, add X to the power of 10 into the equation then any other program or driver could conflict, if it isn't a known one or your using something rare or odd, it happens, but nobody supports games better than this company, end of,...

simple questions to ask yourself if your having issues, when others aren't,...

how old is my windows installation?

1,2,3 or more years old?

so is it a clean install of windows, or a upgrade from etc?

your running windows 10, which version? are you using the latest? have you had it since day one, if so, then if your on the latest version, your already have had 4 previous versions of windows 10 installed already on your pc, the best advice to all this questions is, a clean install fixes almost anything.

i do a clean install of windows 10 every 3 to 4 months, reasons, are many, but most of all i run a lot of stuff, installing and removing, plain and simple, so it's easier to do a fresh install, which fixes any error i may have, than it is to post i have a error with a given XYZ and then find out it's at my end, scan every driver you have and have a link to there makers saved in your online browser account, so when you install windows, all your links are there and you can grab the latest, if you already haven't burnt the latest to disk or onto a thumb drive, you have your car serviced but you think your pc will be error free for every and a day with no handy work being done on your own?

life's not this simple


[image]local://upfiles/43185/41C77BC1930D4853AEE3E5BD6390D158.jpg[/image]




Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 5:24:23 PM)

So, zakblood do you have anything constructive to contribute apart from "it works on my machine"? Anything to help the users diagnose the issue of 30+ minutes on first startup?

By the way I saw your other "test" post and two things:
- 2 mins difference was only in installation. And pretty much obvious too - since your D drive is a 7200rpm harddrive while the C is a newer SSD [;)]
- Why are you still using the old 4.0.0.11 installer when all new installs have to be done with the SetupRelease-v4.1.0.20 which is the *only* one available from the downloads page?




76mm -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 5:39:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach
Why are you still using the old 4.0.0.11 installer when all new installs have to be done with the SetupRelease-v4.1.0.20 which is the *only* one available from the downloads page?

I can't speak for Zakblood, but I'm using 4.0.0.11 as well and have not had any issues.

I keep all of my install files when I buy a game, and all patch files after that...frankly in this day of almost infinite drive space (online, wherever), I'm surprised that this is not universal practice?




Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 5:43:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
I keep all of my install files when I buy a game, and all patch files after that...frankly in this day of almost infinite drive space (online, wherever), I'm surprised that this is not universal practice?


I'm not talking about you guys, or even myself. I'm talking about (potential) new users, who might have just bought the game and installed it.

If someone's going to try to recreate an issue, at least they should have the common sense to try to recreate the way users are actually installing the game after buying it. Whatever works because someone happens to have the old install file lying around is pretty much irrelevant to troubleshooting an issue.




cathar1244 -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 5:52:53 PM)

quote:

Anything to help the users diagnose the issue of 30+ minutes on first startup?


Shadrach,

That is an odd situation. Maybe something with local system performance is involved, but if so, why only with TOAW? I've done some massive file transfers for other reasons and never saw lag like that.

If permissions were the problem, I am surprised the files and folders were able to be created at all.

If I may ask a favor, could you post an image of one of your scenario folders, showing the file dates and file sizes? I'd like to compare it to what is showing for my .40 installation.

I don't have a problem with the software "being busy" on the first execution ... but it would be helpful if a small "busy: please wait" window was displayed. I know, that is small stuff compared to the memory leak bug leading to hard crashes.

Cheers




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 6:16:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

So, zakblood do you have anything constructive to contribute apart from "it works on my machine"? Anything to help the users diagnose the issue of 30+ minutes on first startup?

By the way I saw your other "test" post and two things:
- 2 mins difference was only in installation. And pretty much obvious too - since your D drive is a 7200rpm harddrive while the C is a newer SSD [;)]
- Why are you still using the old 4.0.0.11 installer when all new installs have to be done with the SetupRelease-v4.1.0.20 which is the *only* one available from the downloads page?


yes my install guide, follow it on windows 10 and as long as your drivers are up to date and compatible, and your hardware is more than the min spec, it will work and work well, if it doesn't, it's your hardware or your version of windows install

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4742231

that's my advice, and sorry that's the one i had saved and tbh it matters little as long as it's patched to the latest version, how you get there isn't the issue imo, it's permissions or hardware limitation most are describing, get around that is easy as long as they follow the advice given, if they still having issue, post on with as much hardware info as asked, as it will get sorted in the tech support channel




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 6:16:54 PM)

i'll now re download and retest, just to please the one

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4742432

timed and done as per request, to prove a point, there are no issue, if there is, it needs to be repeatable and on our pc's, which work flawlessly tbh with correct drivers, and permissions set to default for default windows software pre installed, defender and firewall, anything extra into the mix, may need manual permission setting to allow, but installing and running as admin should setup 90%+ of the other types of AV and firewall programs out there, if it doesn't, it's a poor version and not game or windows 10 friendly




zakblood -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 6:53:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
I keep all of my install files when I buy a game, and all patch files after that...frankly in this day of almost infinite drive space (online, wherever), I'm surprised that this is not universal practice?


I'm not talking about you guys, or even myself. I'm talking about (potential) new users, who might have just bought the game and installed it.

If someone's going to try to recreate an issue, at least they should have the common sense to try to recreate the way users are actually installing the game after buying it. Whatever works because someone happens to have the old install file lying around is pretty much irrelevant to troubleshooting an issue.


to recreate a issue, 90% of the time you need to be on the end user pc's, as it could be hardware, software plus drivers, or a conflict with something else loaded at the same time as the game, that's why we say or recommend a clean start up with as little as possible on startup loaded, then use a good firewall and AV program, that's windows 10 and game friendly.

if you wish to have 30 apps preloaded each and every boot and once in a blue moon get a conflict or error that's fine, but if you want longer gaming sessions, less conflicts and less error, the advice is always the same, a clean startup and a clean up to date pc with almost any version of windows is better than a old version of any version or a out of date one.



[image]local://upfiles/43185/B5EA94753CD84F4B84A2F3C815CD1AC6.jpg[/image]

registry, whatever you install leaves traces, over time that slows down the registry, or breaks it, a missing or altered file, from a faulty boot, a incorrect shutdown can and does cause errors, fixing those error are what makes windows stable or unstable. the more error's a system has, the less stable is it, the older the windows version, most of the time the more unstable it is, some never have a issue, when others have one or 2 or many, unless you say it or we see it in your DrX report, then it's plain to see when you say it's the only game i have issues with, and there's 9 other errors there saying otherwise.

if something takes 30 mins to install, there is a rather large issue, and it's not game related, unless you have poor software, poor hardware and lack the understanding on how to fix it, or see it in the first place,

if a drive is that slow on a install or unpacking / uninstalling, it's either failing, or has a driver or permissions issue, or too many programs or apps are working in the background using the same drive and resources.

again not game related.

if anyone is still having any issues, then post in the tech support area so we can answer and sort it for you, happy new year and happy gaming




Meyer1 -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 8:27:10 PM)

I'm having the same issue, installed the 4.1.0.40 patch over the 4.0.0.11 version, default directory, running the game it took about 30 minutes to respond, now as I post this it´s over 10 mins trying to load the Kasserine scenario.

Ryzen 5 1600, 16GB RAM, R580 GPU. Windows 10 64

I've noticed that during this whole time, and even now, the program loads a CPU tread (of 12) at a constant 100%.

Something's wrong with the patch.




Meyer1 -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 8:53:19 PM)

quote:

I've noticed that during this whole time, and even now, the program loads a CPU tread (of 12) at a constant 100%.


So knowing that I went to see the Opart4.ini and the multicpu option was "N" . Changed to "Y" and the game no longer load a tread to 100%... but was still superslow. Changed some sound options (i think nosound to Y) and the game now works perfectly, even as I put the multicpu to N and nosound to N. So I have no idea how I did it but I fixed it...




Shadrach -> RE: Not Responding (12/30/2019 9:32:12 PM)

Meyer1: Good to hear. There's *definitely* something up with the audio playback in the game, several users have reported the same. Maybe related to the patch, or newer versions of Windows, hardware, drivers or something else. The audio library the game uses is Audiere which is positively ancient and will probably cause all sorts of issues on a modern PC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiere

Problem is, to fix it will probably require a complete rewrite of the audio part of the game...

I've noticed it hangs a lot on audio playback too, but I always turn sound off anyway so I never notice. My advice is turn it off in the options. So are you getting sound now?

According to the manual the options in the ini are "Used to debug the sound system" and should probably be left as-is [;)]

Zakblood: Did you clear out the Documents folder first? I you don't and you have previously installed the 4.0.0.11 version you'll have lots of scenarios in that directory and that will not match a default new user install from v4.1.0.20.

Cathar: Here's a dir listing of the files in my Documents scenarios directory:
https://pastebin.com/MDg10WW5
These are all files I've downloaded from somewhere, it was empty after install.

For completeness here's a listing of my Programs scenarios directory:
https://pastebin.com/8VevnCd2
The Programs directory just has the default scenarios shipped with the game.




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