Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (Full Version)

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BeirutDude -> Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (11/9/2019 3:31:29 PM)

All, this is a pretty easy scenario, but with a lot of units. You have to destroy the 50 B61 Nuclear Weapons at Incirlik Turkey after they are seized by Turkish personnel. Far fetched, yes but kind of fun. Been play testing and tweaking for about three weeks so I think it is ready for you all to play test. Thanks in advance for the help and I hope you enjoy it.

Oh BTW, I have a view on American/civilian losses with respect to these "less than full war" situations and the political aspect of the situation. I use VPs to keep the player from doing things their real world counterparts wouldn't. Might feel good to sink that Russian Kilo you just found, but do it and your chances for a Triumph are toast!

KnightHawk75 -> RE: Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (11/9/2019 4:23:30 PM)

Cool idea, should be fun. [:)]

Blast33 -> RE: Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (11/10/2019 5:52:25 PM)

I'll try this one for sure! Interesting idea.
But it raised a question in me..
What would you think would this be a Navy only mission? Or would the Airforce also be involved? Not even USAF F-35's?

The first thing I did was Put some B-2's on Fairford (UK) and put Aviano (IT) into the scenario. Forward deployed F-15's from Lakenheath and Bitburg. Put F-35 on Sigonella.

But Navy only could also be the challenge [:)] One thought was to incorporate a Los Angeles sub with some seals to destroy a coastal radar [8D]
What would be nice is an attachement with a custom overlay of Incirlick airbase to plan the attack.

Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed planning and seeing a mediterranean Sea full of ships and live! Civil traffic is often overlooked in other scenario's.
Whats next? [;)]

BeirutDude -> RE: Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (11/11/2019 11:48:58 PM)

Like pulling the wings off of flies do you! [:D] [8D] [:)]

Seriously, I suggest you remove a CSG if you're going to do what you suggest as it is already too easy for the US to win a Major Victory and really you should achieve a Triumph unless you screw up and loose a lot of US assets! [X(] [:(]

So I did contemplate removing a Carrier Group and adding a (USAF) base(s) in Israel, or Diego Garcia, Or Whiteman AFB but didn't for a few reasons...

1. Given the political situation didn't feel a lot of counties would give permission to use their facilities/air space. Thus support units and the normal USN Patrol Squadron(s) at NAS Sigonella only. As to using Aviano AFB in the time line the Italian prime Minister rules out using Italian bases for offensive actions, but it's your choice to add them. You're really not playtesting my scenario but have fun with it!
[;)]. Really if think about how many NATO nations will be quick to strike a recent/former ally with NATO dissolving? Want to be realistic WRT the international situation I outlined then you need to make Europe a No Navigation Zone for those B2s out of the UK!

2. Then its already a pain in the butt to just to jump to Sigonella, let alone Diego Garcia or Whiteman!

3. As to Israel was going to put USAF squadrons in Hatzor AFB and/or Hatzerim AFB, but then I had already actually removed units from Russia due to unit density and slow speeds. If Israeli Bases are used then the IAF should be present, if the IAF is present then the Syrians and Russians should be there and now units are out of control!

So when you design a scenario everything is a trade off against your vision for what you want to do verses what the program can handle and what players will want to do. Ultimately in the real world, the USN carriers are three acres of sovereign U.S. territory forward deployed and the U.S. can always use them! Thus it was set up as an all Navy operation.

Blast33 -> RE: Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (11/12/2019 10:36:47 AM)

I understand completely.
One thing I had to do was to coordinate a lot of platforms from different locations, bringing them on one spot in time.. That was a big hassle with all the distances involved.

With Navy only, this is much easier and all the ingredients are availeble on the ships [8D].
Will do it again, tnx.

ARCNA442 -> RE: Incirlik 2021 Version 1.0 for playtest (11/14/2019 3:09:03 AM)

An interesting and extremely detailed scenario (I really enjoyed the twist with the B61 "modernization").

However, I found it to be too easy where it mattered and too difficult where it didn't.

Before going further, I should say that I didn't play your scenario exactly as you wrote it. I removed the Truman CSG, and substituted 4 B-2's armed with BLU-122's and Mk84 JDAM's. But I believe that without those changes the parts I disliked would have been even worse.

First, is that simply destroying 20 hardened bunkers is extremely time consuming with the forces given. Some quick testing shows that the most effective weapon available is the JSOW Broach and it takes 4-5 of them to kill 1 bunker (20+ Hornet sorties even before you get to AAW and SEAD). The only other effective weapon is the BLU-109, which takes 5-7 hits to destroy a bunker (20-35 sorties). Everything else is basically useless.

This means that the only way to win is to destroy all the enemy forces and then just keep throwing bombs at the targets until they finally die, which leads to issue number two - destroying all the enemy forces is very easy since you have both quantitative and qualitative superiority. In my playthrough, my only losses were 2 Hornets that I forgot about and left loitering in a isolated position.

Now on to what I found unnecessarily difficult - the sheer amount of traffic and false targets. Although the heavy neutral traffic was indeed immersive and realistic, it didn't serve any purpose because my aircraft quickly ID'ed everything during the first hour or so and then I basically ignored it. It was much the same with the false targets - there were just so many of them, combined with my not being under immediate attack that I just gave up trying to react to them all (and in the end I never actually encountered any subs anyway)

So my suggestions would be to scale back the neutral traffic and false targets, increase the number of Turkish forces (and perhaps improve their quality with Peace Onyx IV armed with AMRAAM C) and/or reduce the number of US forces (I think 1 CSG is more than sufficient), reduce the number of bunkers that need to be destroyed to half a dozen or fewer, and possibly include some bombers with heavier weapons like MOP or BLU-122.

My criticisms aside, it is definitely an interesting scenario and I probably will play with it a bit more.

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