how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (Full Version)

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cdcool -> how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 6:11:44 PM)

In Strategic Command you could only swap




budd -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 6:32:28 PM)

no land unit stacking, swapping only. You can have a land unit, air unit, and sea unit stacked in the same hex but only one land unit per hex. You can attack from multiple hexes at once, another difference from SC games.




cdcool -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 8:50:42 PM)

That kills it for me




target762 -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 8:54:23 PM)

Multiple ships can stack in fleets




Dr. Foo -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 9:02:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool

That kills it for me


Only one corps per hex, but you can combine 3 divisions into a corps, so think of it as 3 divisions per hex.

In SC only one unit per hex regardless of size, at least here you can combine and breakdown a corps. I see this as stacking.




cdcool -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 10:00:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo


quote:

ORIGINAL: cdcool

That kills it for me


Only one corps per hex, but you can combine 3 divisions into a corps, so think of it as 3 divisions per hex.

In SC only one unit per hex regardless of size, at least here you can combine and breakdown a corps. I see this as stacking.


Okay thanks, I'll watch some YouTube videos and and then make a decision. I didn't take SC serious because of no Staking.




canuckgamer -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 10:30:20 PM)

I always wait until the first patch comes out and with War Plan I have been reading reviews and comments in the forum before I decide to buy. Looking at the some screenshots, the German infantry Corps have combat factors of about 10 so what is the combat factor of divisions? Is it 3 or 4?

At least you can stack an air unit with a ground unit which to me is an improvement over SC WIE.




Alvaro Sousa -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (10/28/2019 11:02:06 PM)

Yes 1/3rd a large corps.




TDefender -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (11/3/2019 8:15:46 AM)

The stacking limit is a huge disappointment also for me considering you can manage divisions and not only army/corps. [:(]

"Only one corps per hex, but you can combine 3 divisions into a corps, so think of it as 3 divisions per hex"

Not clear here sorry, so I can stack 3 division counters in a hex?




ncc1701e -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (11/3/2019 8:48:51 AM)

No you can't have three division counters in one hex. You can have one large corps (combining 3 divisions) counter in one hex.




ncc1701e -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (11/3/2019 8:55:55 AM)

From the manual:

Infantry Units – There are up to 4 different types of infantry units depending on the country: divisions, small corps, large corps, and armies. All infantry corps and armies generally have the same attributes and function in the same way. Some countries have slightly different factors for their own infantry class units. Instead of generating a large number of infantry units with different minor purposes WarPlan allows players to detach smaller units from larger ones to cover garrison duty or activity behind the line while assigning specific advancements and availability of reinforcements.

Infantry units are the only units that may be divided and split up. Large and small corps can be merged or split off into small corps and divisions. Armies can be split into two smaller armies. A division can merge with a division or a small corps to make a small or large corps. A small infantry army can merge with another small infantry army to create a large infantry army. The merging unit will adapt the advancement of the unit into which it is merging. The lower of the two advancement levels will be the new advancement level of the merged unit. Some countries, such as Italy, can’t split or merge due to the small size of their historical division and inherit lack
of combat effectiveness as a single division within the scale of the game. Small corps can’t merge into a division.

Infantry Division – 10 strength, can form a small corps with another division or a large corps with a small corps

Infantry Corps Small – 20 strength, can form a large corps with a division or split into 2 divisions

Infantry Corps Large – 30 strength, can be split into a small corps and a division

Infantry Army – 15 to 36 strength, can be split in half forming 2 smaller armies of 7–18 strength each

The only major power to have army units is Russia




TDefender -> RE: how does Land Unit Stacking work exactley? (11/3/2019 9:28:24 AM)

Thanks! [&o]




governato -> Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 10:19:42 AM)

My concern: If stacking does not allow to concentrate enough forces the game could become too static compared to the real war, especially late in the war when extensive fortifications in flat terrain were common (West Wall, German lines in the East).


An important test 'd be to play the first turns the June 44 scenario when Operation Bagration in the East and the breakthrough from Normandy need to happen..at least for a competent player.


Suggestion:



allow the payers to combine 3 'corps' into one *'Army' in open terrain with good supply This would allow to simulate the concentration of forces (not just infantry, but support units) typical of the second half of the war and probably make for a more dynamic game.

One could/should make it a logistics advancement and limit it to only a small number of units per Nation.

*Russian armies were the size of German Korps so I understand the term 'corp' is an abstraction in the game.




Zovs -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 12:17:07 PM)

The way this game’s mechanics are designed and the way this games logic is designed there is no reason for land stacking in this game. One land unit can attack as many times as it has operational points to do so and multiple land units in adjacent hexes can be used to form a multi hex attack.

So for an example if you have three adjacent hexes each with 5 operational points, you could attack a single hex 5 times. In reality if you have the odds it generally takes 1, 2 or 3 attacks.

There is a lot of misconceptions about this game and lack of land stacking and all the reasons put forth are not based on this game’s design reality.

I am a war game veteran of over 35 years and this is a Great War Game design that does not need land stacking.




Essro -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 3:06:42 PM)

Regarding stacking I noted elsewhere that I think there should be stacking up to two corps. I now believe I was wrong and have changed my mind.

The game does not really need a stacking feature (and I cannot believe I'm saying that).

What changed my mind?

The Eastern Front. Going into France '40, you'll be tempted to say it's too crowded and there is a traffic problem resulting in some obnoxious dancing around with a few corps. But once you are out of France, you'll hardly every be bothered by it again. Even a return trip to France is not so bad. Once you get knee deep in the east, you'll forget about it.




Alvaro Sousa -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 3:58:58 PM)

Germans should be converting 2 large corps to 3 small ones in the Eastern Front.




ncc1701e -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 4:26:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alvaro Sousa

Germans should be converting 2 large corps to 3 small ones in the Eastern Front.


Hummm, is there a bonus to attack from three hexes instead of two? I have checked in the manual and I do not see this written.




Alvaro Sousa -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 4:44:40 PM)

No there is not. This is only to cover the front better. Not all corps, just enough to cover front lines in defensive positions.




governato -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 4:57:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: governato

My concern: If stacking does not allow to concentrate enough forces the game could become too static compared to the real war, especially late in the war when extensive fortifications in flat terrain were common (West Wall, German lines in the East).


An important test 'd be to play the first turns the June 44 scenario when Operation Bagration in the East and the breakthrough from Normandy need to happen..at least for a competent player.



With the caveat that I'd like to see games in 43-44 dealing with the large concentration of forces NOT seen in 40-41 the section from the manual below is pretty
encouraging. But please keep in mind that the Red Army in 1944 was able to stuff about 300 artillery tubes/km and 25 tanks/km over about 30-50km. That is A LOT of equipment that has to fit in one hex.

Here is the manual from a post above.

quote:

Infantry Division – 10 strength, can form a small corps with another division or a large corps with a small corps

Infantry Corps Small – 20 strength, can form a large corps with a division or split into 2 divisions

Infantry Corps Large – 30 strength, can be split into a small corps and a division

Infantry Army – 15 to 36 strength, can be split in half forming 2 smaller armies of 7–18 strength each

The only major power to have army units is Russia


To summarize the previous posts: I think stacking or not stacking is a design style choice..and it has to work to replicate real warfare. I also think the 'dynamic merging' of units offered by war plan is promising and a clear improvement over previous games.




Alvaro Sousa -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/3/2019 8:39:15 PM)

Thanks




cdcool -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/4/2019 11:09:23 PM)

I am too I disagree. He didn't learn from SC.




cdcool -> RE: Merging Corps into 'Armies' late in the war. (11/4/2019 11:10:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

The way this game’s mechanics are designed and the way this games logic is designed there is no reason for land stacking in this game. One land unit can attack as many times as it has operational points to do so and multiple land units in adjacent hexes can be used to form a multi hex attack.

So for an example if you have three adjacent hexes each with 5 operational points, you could attack a single hex 5 times. In reality if you have the odds it generally takes 1, 2 or 3 attacks.

There is a lot of misconceptions about this game and lack of land stacking and all the reasons put forth are not based on this game’s design reality.

I am a war game veteran of over 35 years and this is a Great War Game design that does not need land stacking.


I am too, I disagree, He didn't learn from SC.




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