Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (Full Version)

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jagsdomain -> Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 8:26:22 PM)

Cant seem to make them move from OZ




geofflambert -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 8:28:37 PM)

Are they restricted?




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 8:39:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Are they restricted?

They are restricted to OZ command (r) but Rabal is same command.




fcooke -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 8:43:26 PM)

Restricted means you cannot load them onto ships. But you can airlift them. Same challenge as with the Dutch and their far flung locations.....




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 8:48:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Restricted means you cannot load them onto ships. But you can airlift them. Same challenge as with the Dutch and their far flung locations.....

Dam there goes that plan! I was hoping to take them from OZ to Rabal and make it a fortress! Hummm
Can I put us forces there?
Also How do I land troops at say the Canal and start a base?




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 8:58:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Restricted means you cannot load them onto ships. But you can airlift them. Same challenge as with the Dutch and their far flung locations.....

All of OZ looks there are 4 units and there at Darwin.
Guess its to stop people from doing what I am trying.




RangerJoe -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 9:07:01 PM)

Not only that, Milne Bay has no port so the troops have to go by air, fast transport, and/or amphibious fleet.




fcooke -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 9:50:22 PM)

I would grab all the little units from Rabaul and the rest of NG and concentrate them at PM. There's pretty much no chance of holding Rabaul without a significant investment of naval resources - which is very high risk. And some of the little units can combine into more useful sized units. You can try to take the Canal early but you may need to keep your carriers near there to stop Japan from grabbing it first....




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 10:30:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

I would grab all the little units from Rabaul and the rest of NG and concentrate them at PM. There's pretty much no chance of holding Rabaul without a significant investment of naval resources - which is very high risk. And some of the little units can combine into more useful sized units. You can try to take the Canal early but you may need to keep your carriers near there to stop Japan from grabbing it first....

What's PM




fcooke -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 10:47:38 PM)

Port Moresby. Much easier to defend than Rabaul.




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/15/2019 11:03:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Port Moresby. Much easier to defend than Rabaul.

True just did not want to lose such a great base but it might be a bridge to far
Just had 2 MK 14 that work!:)




BBfanboy -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 6:34:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

I would grab all the little units from Rabaul and the rest of NG and concentrate them at PM. There's pretty much no chance of holding Rabaul without a significant investment of naval resources - which is very high risk. And some of the little units can combine into more useful sized units. You can try to take the Canal early but you may need to keep your carriers near there to stop Japan from grabbing it first....

You can pick up all the units using patrol aircraft from Pt. Moresby or transports if there is a suitable airfield, but one of the companies on NG is at an inland base with no airfield so you cannot pick it up until it marches to a coastal base. Everything for this plan should start on the first turn. It takes a long time to march through NG jungle. Once you get the five or so small detachments to PM you can combine them with the Pt. Moresby battalion to make the PM Brigade. That unit will be able to draw some heavy weapons to help in the defence of the base.

Also remember to get all the sub units prepping for PM from day one.




HansBolter -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 11:41:00 AM)

The Japanese side can and will take most everything it wants in the beginning of the game.

This is especially true of outposts in the middle of the ocean that the Allies don't have sufficient naval strength to be able to maintain.

Better to think about consolidating the meager and spread out Allied forces in locations that are actually important to put up a fight over.

The advice to consolidate on PM is sound. Trying to hold Rabaul is not.

The same is true of the Dutch.

Exploit the air lift capability of their flying boats to consolidate their forces.




Trugrit -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 12:37:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The Japanese side can and will take most everything it wants in the beginning of the game.

This is especially true of outposts in the middle of the ocean that the Allies don't have sufficient naval strength to be able to maintain.

Better to think about consolidating the meager and spread out Allied forces in locations that are actually important to put up a fight over.

The advice to consolidate on PM is sound. Trying to hold Rabaul is not.

The same is true of the Dutch.

Exploit the air lift capability of their flying boats to consolidate their forces.

+2

In fact you want the Japanese to overextend their perimeter in the central islands and Southwest Pacific.

There are no resources there that the Japanese can use.
Their freighters will have to return back to Japan empty.

When Allied naval and sir strength increases in the region; islands and Rabaul can be isolated.

In the Real War:

“The neutralization of Rabaul was ultimately a disaster for the Japanese.
Most of their experienced carrier pilots were lost over Rabaul, large numbers of their sorely needed
aviation maintenance personnel were either lost during their attempted evacuation or trapped there,
and the Japanese no longer had a base from which they could threaten the Allied presence in the Solomons.”

By isolating Rabaul, the Allies effectively made its large garrison (which outnumbered the defenders on Okinawa) prisoners of war without having to fight them.
The last Allied airstrike on Rabaul took place on 8 August 1945, only weeks before the Japanese surrender.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutralisation_of_Rabaul

“senior Japanese officer described this perimeter as "just about the limit, the maximum limit of our capability."
The natural clairvoyance of hindsight similarly aided a number of enemy officers to recognize the fact that Japan
had overextended herself by early spring of 1942. At that time, however, the headquarters faction that had authored
the original ambitious war plan was still in the saddle and their aggressive philosophy prevailed.
Orders went out from Tokyo to continue the advance, to seize further positions that would shield the initial perimeter.
It was this decision more than any other taken by Imperial Headquarters during the course of the war that hastened the downfall of the Japanese Empire.
In less than a year's time, enemy forces were reeling back all across the Pacific, and the reserves that would have bolstered
the original perimeter were dissipated in a fruitless effort to continue the offensive.”
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/II/USMC-II-I-1.html

On the other hand Port Moresby is very important.
If the Japanese have Port Moresby they can extend their air power over vital sea areas the Allies need to operate in.

One of the great things about this game is that it is large enough to allow you to see some of the Pacific strategy play out.





Trugrit -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 2:29:51 PM)


Clarification:

The Solomons are the other factor I did not mention.
Japan really needed both Moresby and Tulagi to influence the area.

Also, I did not mean to imply that Rabaul is irrelevant as some historians, like Willmott, says.

The Japanese base at Rabaul forced the Allies to launch two separate campaigns to crack the position.
Those campaigns lasted more than a year and a half; hardly irrelevant by any measure.

I’ll quote Bergerud in “Fire In The Sky”:
https://mboten.com/review/1498194-fire-in-the-sky-the-air-war-in-the-south-pacific

“Instead it is clear, in retrospect, that Tokyo bungled badly by not taking Moresby in early 1942 when the operation would have been so easy.
Without Moresby – particularly if Japanese moves into the South Pacific had forced reinforcement shipping far to the south (Tulagi) –
it is likely that Marshall and his supporters would have simply closed down the Southwest Pacific Theater completely.”

“Had Tokyo done so, (held Moresby and Tulagi) Japan might well have shut down the Southwest and South Pacific Theaters before they began.
Certainly keeping Allied forces off of New Guinea would have made Washington and Canberra face a very hard decision.
If the Allies wished to engage in the long and costly crawl up the coast of New Guinea, they would be forced to either capture Moresby or
seize the Solomons, unless they were able to gather the resources to do both in 1942 – an almost impossible scenario –
the rationale for launching an offensive from the South Pacific itself would have naturally come into question as U.S. forces grew in the Central Pacific in 1943.”

“In short, had the Japanese seized both Tulagi and Moresby early in the war, there is good reason to believe
that the large buildup that took place in both theaters would have been postponed indefinitely.”

“Had the Allies been required to fight a major battle against a solid land air base (Moresby) just to
begin a long campaign (up the coast of New Guinea) the strong advocates of alternative strategies
would have probably won the day.”

The Allies may have fortified Australia and closed up shop in the Southwest and concentrated
on building up forces in Hawaii for a central Pacific offensive.

I’m not sure I believe that entirely, it just may have taken much longer to launch an offensive in the South Pacific.

That could have changed the course of the war.
Japan would have still not have won but they would have lost in a different way.
May have prolonged the war longer.





RangerJoe -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 2:43:16 PM)

+1

Also, Japan with just the Central Pacific to actively defend with the fleet, the US would have had a much more difficult time attacking especially with an intact Japanese carrier force with their good pilots that they lost over the South Pacific areas.




BBfanboy -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 3:32:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

+1

Also, Japan with just the Central Pacific to actively defend with the fleet, the US would have had a much more difficult time attacking especially with an intact Japanese carrier force with their good pilots that they lost over the South Pacific areas.

With MacArthur's troops not being used in NG, the US could mount a NorPac/Kuriles campaign once carrier/plane and pilot superiority was achieved.
Or they could tell the generals to hold their noses and help the British drive from Burma into Indo-China and China.

The aim was just to get into B-29 range so any avenue that did that was good. The initial B-29 attacks on Japan were tried from Ledo with a fueling stop in China. They were a disaster because the aircraft still had lots of issues that resulted in ops losses.




pontiouspilot -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 3:46:19 PM)

You can spend political points and buy out restricted Aussie units for transfer. For all the reasons stated herein that may not be the best use of early political points. I did hold Rabaul in one PBEM but I managed to get marines and US base forces in there fairly early. Also my Japanese opponent thought he could take it on the cheap.




Richard III -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 5:01:49 PM)

I seem to remember in the stock game ( not sure about Beta)1 or 2 of the Aussie brigades (perhaps the 1st.) would be released for shipping by AP to Moresby by turn 7 or later.
I don`t believe it`s in the DOCS anywhere but I have an old memory now for WITP AE.




Trugrit -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 5:57:34 PM)


In scenario 1 and 2 almost every unit of the Australian Command can be bought out if you have the coin.
That is a lot of troops, even the armor units can be bought out.

The armor units have Marmon Herrington tanks which could be transported in landing craft.
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/marmon-herrington-ctls-4ta

The Australian troops were among the best troops in both world wars even in Hoosier tanks.

In the Java campaign:
“Unfortunately, mostly ignoring the Armored Unit, the Japanese picked off their infantry support in a few hours,
and despite few tanks lost, the Battalion was forced to retreat. Over the next two days, they would be hounded
by the fast-moving Japanese forces and their 47mm anti-tank guns which could easily knock out the Light Tank.”

“The other 149 vehicles that had just rolled off the production line were already in transit in some form to the Pacific Theater.
With the tanks already paid for, but with the East Indies lost, the tanks instead diverted to Australia,
arriving throughout April and May 1942.

The vehicles were assessed to be in good condition and of solid build quality, but their value as fighting vehicles
was determined to be low, and they were dispersed to training units of the 1st Australian Armored Division, mostly to teach new drivers.

Over the next year, 11 were cannibalized for parts due to water damage on exercises, and the other 138 were declared obsolete
in November 1943, and given to the Ford motor company for scrap.”





RangerJoe -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 6:32:23 PM)

I wonder if those tanks could have been adapted to tow artillery pieces and then be available for defensive purposes.




HansBolter -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 7:07:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I wonder if those tanks could have been adapted to tow artillery pieces and then be available for defensive purposes.


The Germans never let a usable vehicle go to waste.

I have great fun running down model kits of captured vehicles pressed into service by the Germans and used for every thing under the sun.

Obsolete tanks were used by security forces in occupied countries against partisans.

Obsolete tanks had wooden crate lunched rockets slung along the sides of the hull turning them into mechanized artillery units (have built a kit of a French Hotchkiss tank configured in this manner).

They even mounted the wooden crate launched rockets on the rear deck of the tiny two man French UE utility tractor (I've built a kit of that one).




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 7:35:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

The Japanese side can and will take most everything it wants in the beginning of the game.

This is especially true of outposts in the middle of the ocean that the Allies don't have sufficient naval strength to be able to maintain.

Better to think about consolidating the meager and spread out Allied forces in locations that are actually important to put up a fight over.

The advice to consolidate on PM is sound. Trying to hold Rabaul is not.

The same is true of the Dutch.

Exploit the air lift capability of their flying boats to consolidate their forces.

I did not realise you could airlift troops with see planes. I will try the PBY and see if I can.
I know I delaid it because Lex and E are going strate ove ti Rabal and blowing up shipping.
Yes dangourse but for some reason the AI has keeped the KB close to Midway half way through Dec




jagsdomain -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 10:13:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

+1

Also, Japan with just the Central Pacific to actively defend with the fleet, the US would have had a much more difficult time attacking especially with an intact Japanese carrier force with their good pilots that they lost over the South Pacific areas.

With MacArthur's troops not being used in NG, the US could mount a NorPac/Kuriles campaign once carrier/plane and pilot superiority was achieved.
Or they could tell the generals to hold their noses and help the British drive from Burma into Indo-China and China.

The aim was just to get into B-29 range so any avenue that did that was good. The initial B-29 attacks on Japan were tried from Ledo with a fueling stop in China. They were a disaster because the aircraft still had lots of issues that resulted in ops losses.

The B29 cost more to invent than the A-bomb.




BBfanboy -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/16/2019 11:28:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jagsdomain


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

+1

Also, Japan with just the Central Pacific to actively defend with the fleet, the US would have had a much more difficult time attacking especially with an intact Japanese carrier force with their good pilots that they lost over the South Pacific areas.

With MacArthur's troops not being used in NG, the US could mount a NorPac/Kuriles campaign once carrier/plane and pilot superiority was achieved.
Or they could tell the generals to hold their noses and help the British drive from Burma into Indo-China and China.

The aim was just to get into B-29 range so any avenue that did that was good. The initial B-29 attacks on Japan were tried from Ledo with a fueling stop in China. They were a disaster because the aircraft still had lots of issues that resulted in ops losses.

The B29 cost more to invent than the A-bomb.


Didn't know that. Without the B-29, the A-bomb could not have been dropped before Operation Olympic took place. So the combo of the two was a good investment. The B-29 also made long range commercial flights possible because of the invention of a pressurized fuselage and a skin that could take the expansion and contraction of pressure changes and temperatures.




geofflambert -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/17/2019 12:30:34 AM)

That may be true, or not. The figure given for the plane is $3B and $2B for the bomb. The B-29 was "invented" before the war even started and you know they didn't spend that kind of money pre-war. It first flew in '42 while the Manhattan Project took the whole war to come up with one. Nearly all of that $3B figure was producing nearly 4,000 of them. A major part of the bomb project went into producing enough fissile material for the 3 bombs. When do you say the bomb was invented, when Enrico Fermi thought it up or when they tested the first bomb?




BBfanboy -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/17/2019 1:23:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

That may be true, or not. The figure given for the plane is $3B and $2B for the bomb. The B-29 was "invented" before the war even started and you know they didn't spend that kind of money pre-war. It first flew in '42 while the Manhattan Project took the whole war to come up with one. Nearly all of that $3B figure was producing nearly 4,000 of them. A major part of the bomb project went into producing enough fissile material for the 3 bombs. When do you say the bomb was invented, when Enrico Fermi thought it up or when they tested the first bomb?

Thinking something up is conceptualizing. Actually building it is the part that requires a lot of problem solving by engineers -and the completed, functioning prototype is the arrival of the invention.




geofflambert -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/17/2019 1:39:45 AM)

That means the B-29's invention cost less than $1B.




Ian R -> RE: Trying to move troops from OZ to Rabal. Can they move because I cant seem to make them move (9/17/2019 7:39:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit

The armor units have Marmon Herrington tanks ... the tanks instead diverted to Australia,
arriving throughout April and May 1942.



By then the M3 Stuarts and M3 Mediums were arriving. Better to use those. They floated the M3 lights round to Buna in 1942 on barges, IIRC.

In 43-44 the venerable Matilda was preferred; compact, well protected, speed was a non-issue in the jungle role, and plenty of them had 76mm gun-howitzers (and late war some flame-projectors) instead of the 2-lber . Having said that, the armour piercing performance of the latter made it useful for shooting at log protected bunkers and such-like. Think of spalling, except with jagged hard wood splinters.

Late war, after jungle trials of the M4 and other possibilities in Papua, we ordered the A22 Churchill (again, a mix of 75mm, and in this case 95mm CSH types; dozer blade kits were being manufactured locally, but I am not sure if any crocodile attachments were in the pipeline). Despite its looks, it had remarkably good obstacle crossing/hill climbing performance. An order which was promptly reduced from 500 to 51 in September 1945.

Those were eventually replaced by Centurions with the 20lbr OQF rifle (84mm). In 1968 in the wake of Tet, the tactical commander of the ATF at the battle of fire-bases Coral/Balmoral, Colonel Don Dunstan, employed his Centurions just like he used the Matilda attached to his platoon when he was a subaltern in Bougainville in 1944-5.




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