French tech post liberation, and Free French units (Full Version)

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The Land -> French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/11/2019 2:31:22 PM)

It seems that France after liberation by the Allies gets the same tech as it did when conquered in 1940.

I wondered if this was a conscious decision, or more the default setting? To my mind it's a bit odd historically - the French re-armament in 1945 was heavily supported by US equipment

Relatedly, I wonder if the US should get a Decision Event following landings in North Africa (or the conquest of Paris) to equip a French Tanks unit - reflecting the three Free French Armoured Divisions?

Appreciate this might all get complicated... (maybe what I'm really saying is I should mod in a Free French nation or something!)




Taxman66 -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/11/2019 3:14:41 PM)

It's actually even worse, if there are a few free french land or air units kicking around they loose any upgrades they were given when they go back to being French units.

You are not the first to comment on this.




PvtBenjamin -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/12/2019 9:09:21 PM)

What was the French participation post '44 in the real war? Not much correct? This doesn't mean that if the war went another year or two it wouldn't have been.

It would make sense that French troops should receive some portion of US/GB research.

If I recall the game does allow buying some French troops on the cheap leftover from the '39 campaign. If they got the research this should also change.

When I re-capture Paris I find the first benefit is Diplomacy and then concentrate on troops that can de-entrench.









The Land -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/13/2019 10:09:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

What was the French participation post '44 in the real war? Not much correct?



By spring 1945 the Free French First Army fielded three armoured and seven infantry divisions. You could interpret that several different ways in game terms but it would be reasonable to make it three counters - a tank, an army and a corps - arguably with an HQ as well.




The Land -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/13/2019 1:02:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

What was the French participation post '44 in the real war? Not much correct?



By spring 1945 the Free French First Army fielded three armoured and seven infantry divisions. You could interpret that several different ways in game terms but it would be reasonable to make it three counters - a tank, an army and a corps - arguably with an HQ as well.



and also looking at a different part of Wikipedia, France had 1.5 million men under arms by VE day. In part possible because France already had significant numbers of men with military training - they were effectively able to integrate colonial army that mainly joined the Free French with formalised resistance 'units' (who, in turn, often contained veterans of the prewar army). In part possible because of significant US equipment supplies under lend-lease. In part because there was strong political will across all the Free French / Resistance political factions (Gaullist conservatives, Communists, Socialists....) to contribute to the war effort and thus restore France's status as a liberated combatant, not be treated as a conquered neutral territory...




PvtBenjamin -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/13/2019 6:18:38 PM)

I guessing it was somewhat a cosmetic (photo shot) force tho. So it wouldn't make sense to put them at full US/Brit research, that would be a stretch. I bet they were no were near the US/Brit fighting capability.

Personally I think it works pretty well as it is but could see an argument that the French start with some research after the re capture of France. I find the added diplomacy & de-entrench capabilities very useful.

I've never had a circumstance that France (Paris) was re-captured and the Allies didn't win. I'm sure its happened but I've never seen it.




El Condoro -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/14/2019 2:16:02 AM)

I was the one who retook Paris from The Land! :) It was a bit strange IMO because immediately Paris reverted to German control, at the end of that turn so did all France hexes that didn't have an Allied unit in them. That meant they became out of supply although they controlled ports from Brest as far east as Paris. Given that the French Resistance and the Allies themselves were active in those areas it took me by surprise that they reverted to German control.




Ktonos -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/14/2019 2:36:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin
I've never had a circumstance that France (Paris) was re-captured and the Allies didn't win. I'm sure its happened but I've never seen it.


Last year Sugar vs KZ.
KZ did an early Overlord while Sugar was fighting to break the Soviets. The Axis left undefended the whole of France under the reasoning that anything there would simply be demolished by Air and at the same time be a distraction to the East. KZ took Paris but by the time he started making gains behind Siegfried line, the Soviets broke. And a few turns later the game conceded to the Axis.




The Land -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/14/2019 10:46:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin
I've never had a circumstance that France (Paris) was re-captured and the Allies didn't win. I'm sure its happened but I've never seen it.


Last year Sugar vs KZ.
KZ did an early Overlord while Sugar was fighting to break the Soviets. The Axis left undefended the whole of France under the reasoning that anything there would simply be demolished by Air and at the same time be a distraction to the East. KZ took Paris but by the time he started making gains behind Siegfried line, the Soviets broke. And a few turns later the game conceded to the Axis.


So in the game I'm playing with El Condoro I did an early Overlord in 1943 as an attempt to distract the Germans from taking Moscow. The Axis only committed properly to fighting back after Paris was taken, but had a fairly easy time driving the Allies back with enough air and armour committed (I'd neglected research, in part because I was aware I was making a bunch of desperation moves ;) )




PvtBenjamin -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/14/2019 10:50:23 AM)

I've had circumstances were my opponent left Paris open and I para trooped into Paris taking France and then lost control back to Axis. This was mainly to divert resources from the SU. Ultimately I recall winning the games. My memory is quite vague on losses. [&:]

Back to the thread I don't see the need for a DE that would give the Allies a substantial French fighting force but think a DE to provide the French with some Research may be appropriate.





Ktonos -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/14/2019 4:05:57 PM)

The Free French divisions in the later part of the war, even after the liberation of Paris, used almost exclusively US and UK equipment, not only armor, vehicles, artillery etc but also small arms.
If we are trying to replicate this then the closest thing would be to have France as a minor under US or UK instead of a re-emerging major.




Mithrilotter -> RE: French tech post liberation, and Free French units (9/15/2019 8:54:49 PM)

I would like to see a Decision Event after the liberation of Paris to give France a full upgrade to current UK Tech or to current US Tech (players choice). Unfortunately, I don't think that the current game engine can do that.




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