Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (Full Version)

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DonCzirr -> Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/21/2019 5:04:15 PM)

Recently, I was thinking back into the 80s or 90s where I had played a very fun strategic PACT vs NATO board-game.

Hex based, probably division level and it stretched from Scandinavia to the mid-east.

Very entertaining - with good flow.(although a little imbalanced towards PACT)

I even think it had a space unit where you needed to toss the counter from a certain distance to the game board to simulate the "space drop".

In any case, I was thinking that a Modern strategic game would be entertaining (IMO) - perhaps based on a core system like SC3. Using their DE system, there could be all types of special events and triggers about use of tactical nukes other WMD etc

I guess old PACT vs NATO era would be best to start with - but then eventually, the core could be expanded for scenarios covering conflicts envisioned by Combat Mission Black Sea etc ...

Anyone else have an interest in seeing such a title published ?




rommel222 -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/21/2019 5:51:15 PM)

Greetings DonCzirr,
I recall playing Frank Chadwick's Third World War Series Game Designers Workshop, GDW, Boardgames in the 80's.(Hex based/division with special regiments/brigades scale).
1) The Third World War: Battle for Germany
2) The Third World War: Artic Front
3) The Third Word War: Southern Front
4) The Third World War: Persian Gulf Battle for the Middle East

Boardgamegeek Link:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3605/third-world-war

Compass games appears to be redoing The Third World War series of four games:
https://www.compassgames.com/preorders/the-third-world-war-designer-signature-edition.html

A computer version of Third World War would be great




jack54 -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/21/2019 6:22:10 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: DonCzirr
...

I guess old PACT vs NATO era would be best to start with - but then eventually, the core could be expanded for scenarios covering conflicts envisioned by Combat Mission Black Sea etc ...

Anyone else have an interest in seeing such a title published ?



I would love to see it... I especially lean more towards today's hot spots. I always thought Command had a great idea with their LIVE scenarios.




Red2112 -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/21/2019 8:27:57 PM)

Iam up for that too! GDW Assault series is great.




DonCzirr -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 1:20:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings DonCzirr,
I recall playing Frank Chadwick's Third World War Series Game Designers Workshop, GDW, Boardgames in the 80's.(Hex based/division with special regiments/brigades scale).
1) The Third World War: Battle for Germany
2) The Third World War: Artic Front
3) The Third Word War: Southern Front
4) The Third World War: Persian Gulf Battle for the Middle East

Boardgamegeek Link:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3605/third-world-war

Compass games appears to be redoing The Third World War series of four games:
https://www.compassgames.com/preorders/the-third-world-war-designer-signature-edition.html

A computer version of Third World War would be great



Right - I think this was the game.

Thanks for the link. Hopefully one of the better Matrix Devs will see the opportunity that such a gap presents in the digital market.

I'd love to see one of them take a chance on something like World War III strategic rather than pumping out more Waterloo or

Normandy clones.





RFalvo69 -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 6:59:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222
A computer version of Third World War would be great


It was re-created for TOAW by Trey Marshall. I think it is compatible with TOAW IV.




Red2112 -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 7:05:00 AM)

@DonCzirr...

Compass Games is doing a remake of "The Third World War":
https://www.compassgames.com/preorders/the-third-world-war-designer-signature-edition.html

Red




pzgndr -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 12:23:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings DonCzirr,
I recall playing Frank Chadwick's Third World War Series Game Designers Workshop, GDW, Boardgames in the 80's.(Hex based/division with special regiments/brigades scale).
1) The Third World War: Battle for Germany
2) The Third World War: Artic Front
3) The Third Word War: Southern Front
4) The Third World War: Persian Gulf Battle for the Middle East

Boardgamegeek Link:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3605/third-world-war

Compass games appears to be redoing The Third World War series of four games:
https://www.compassgames.com/preorders/the-third-world-war-designer-signature-edition.html

A computer version of Third World War would be great


A while back I made a mod for Schwerpunkt's Anglo-German War based on The Third World War: Battle for Germany. And I updated the OOBs for post-Cold War data for 1989 unit info. Making adjustments for the air war was tricky, and the big challenge was making assumptions about supply and reinforcements for basically an 8-week war because the intensity would probably have reduced stockpiles to exhaustion. Anyways, it was a good exercise. So if Compass Games makes updates and then supports a computer version, that would be cool.

A computer version of GDW's Assault series would be nice too. I have encouraged the Flashpoint Campaign series guys to consider the C2 ops points ideas from Assault but not sure if that's going anywhere. Maybe Compass will take it up someday.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 12:33:19 PM)

It's just a me thing, but I lived through the tense part of the cold war. Yeah I owned a lot of WW3 board games. A lot of the classics.

But when the commies and the pact died, my interest died, and really, I don't like pondering my end during the era. I don't know why I bought the games then either. My unit was destined to get wiped out at Fulda. I threw out my 'never going to happen' wargames.

I prefer to wargame events that actually happened. Although the Assault system could be made for more recent events rather nicely. I think a modern relevant SC3 based design would sell well.




Kuokkanen -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 12:59:43 PM)

How about Civilization series? Any mods and scenarios based on recent wars or World War 3?




DonCzirr -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 1:15:18 PM)

Civ is a little too high level I think - and not a real war game.



I too typically avoid (even Tiller's) hypothetical scenarios but I believe there are some very interesting mechanics to be explored with a Strategic Level / hex based Modern Warfare game.



Thanks for the link Red on the remake of the board game - but until I win the lottery, my large tables are dedicated to my son's school science projects [;)]




I was thinking of the Flashpoint guys doing it - but could they effectively make the jump from grand tactical to strategic ?


Fury is more at home in that space ... but they have a full dance card atm - perhaps after WWI they might be tempted - if they don't do a SC3 Weapons and Warfare first ...





Kuokkanen -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 2:01:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DonCzirr

Civ is a little too high level I think - and not a real war game.

Well, we have a number of war games that cover Vietnam and even Afghanistan. And TOAW series does it all.




Zovs -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 2:53:34 PM)

I enjoy playing TOAW and the GDW TWW series was covered by Trey and SPIs The NextWar and VG N.A.T.O. are also covered as well.




DonCzirr -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 3:00:48 PM)

TOAW (even though nominally operational) could do the warfare aspect fine I believe - but other aspects may need a more SC3 type engine:

Production - I don't think TOAW could cover that too well. (I'm not a TOAW expert however - so perhaps you could correct me if I am wrong on that?)

Diplomacy - time for minors to enter or to commit at all to the conflict

Research - Given the probable length of such a conflict and the nature of today's advanced systems (i.e. next gen cruisers, high tech MBTs etc) - I think (as opposed to the big model jumps you see in SC3) where advanced tanks start showing up, in a moidern strategic, I think the race would be for software upgrades, updated field tactics (based upon initial clashes - like new AT vs armor tweaks) etc ...

Not sure if TOAW could handle that either ?




jack54 -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 3:27:39 PM)

Just my preference but I would need something more detailed/closer than SC3.


I 'need' stacking; I 'don't need' a unit to be the sum of it's parts but I prefer that level of detail. Like TOAW or Grigsby.

Cold War gone Hot is fine, my dream would be something like 'WITP AE set in the Modern South Chine Sea', or WitW Set in cold war Europe (or today). I doubt either will happen, the OOB would be a nightmare to create then add in the escalation to Nukes.

Torpedoes that can destroy an entire Task Force or Port city takes away a lot of options.

But IMHO they would sell big time I know I would buy them.





Lobster -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 4:05:36 PM)

IMO any WW3 strategic level game wouldn't last long enough for either production or research. Unless it involved researching spears and slings and producing underground habitats. Anything else is simply ignoring the obvious escalation that would take place once one side began winning over the other and pretending humans were logical. Maybe a local type of conflict where both of the major nuke possessing sides were not involved. But even an India vs Pakistan or possibly even India vs China conflict would end up with nukes. Iran vs Israel could end up with nukes if Iran began winning and Israel's existence were threatened. The only way you could make a WW3 strategic game that lasted more than a few weeks is if you rendered nukes inoperable. Then it would be a science fiction game.




ncc1701e -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 4:11:31 PM)

This is funny nobody mentions Command series:
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/command-modern-air-naval-operations-wargame-of-the-year-edition

There are plenty of DLCs with interesting scenarios.

Perhaps this is because you are looking more for land warfare? If so, WinSPMBT is maybe too tactical...




Lobster -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 4:34:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

This is funny nobody mentions Command series:
https://www.matrixgames.com/game/command-modern-air-naval-operations-wargame-of-the-year-edition

There are plenty of DLCs with interesting scenarios.

Perhaps this is because you are looking more for land warfare? If so, WinSPMBT is maybe too tactical...


That is basically an operational scale game. You can do things to TOAW to make it more strategic too. But at it's root both are operational so don't do a real good job of simulating a strategic level.

All of the Steel Panthers games are tactical. Not even close to strategic. Can't even be made to seem like it. [;)]




RangerJoe -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 4:38:22 PM)

quote:

. . . My unit was destined to get wiped out at Fulda . . .


I knew some people who were there.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 9:51:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

. . . My unit was destined to get wiped out at Fulda . . .


I knew some people who were there.


What unit were they with?




RangerJoe -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/25/2019 10:08:39 PM)

I believe that they were with the Blackhorse regiment.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/26/2019 1:31:07 AM)

Ok. I was attached to the Canadian 4th mech brgde group.




RangerJoe -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/26/2019 2:02:12 AM)

Someone told me about some Zoll who decided to have fun with firecrackers along the border. It turned out that they set them off when they were between an American Jeep patrol and some East German Border Guards.

I did not know that there were Canadian units in that area, I thought that it was an American sector.




pzgndr -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/27/2019 11:08:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Someone told me about some Zoll who decided to have fun with firecrackers along the border. It turned out that they set them off when they were between an American Jeep patrol and some East German Border Guards.


We had a scout platoon leader on the border who wanted to be funny one day. He had a broken RAWLS light on the HMMWV so fashioned a simulated radar dish out of foil. Then proceeded to look at East German guards through binos, punch vigorously on a calculator, make notes on a clipboard, and did this a few times to get noticed. The East Germans took pictures! So this thing went all the way up channels on the Warsaw Pact side, across diplomatic channels to the NATO side, and down the chain of command. No harm done, but everyone was told to knock it off. Too funny!




RangerJoe -> RE: Could Modern Warfare Strategic Sell ? (8/27/2019 11:19:18 PM)

I had heard of things like that, but we didn't have Hummers. I had fun driving the M151A2 however.

One time, the BGS told us when we stopped where the East Germans were getting ready to replace a section of fence that the East Germans had only detonated 78 landmines between the border and the fence. It was only 3 pm.




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