RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (Full Version)

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Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/4/2019 5:48:40 PM)


could it be that WP is not hostile to UNPROFOR

That might be it - thank you.


ZoroastroBR -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/4/2019 8:15:10 PM)

Hey Gunner, really looking forward to playing this scenario, but I want to wait for the first update. Do you have an ETA?

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/4/2019 8:31:33 PM)


Likely be another week or so. I am away atm and would want a couple of the others to finish before I dig in too much.

The next version will likely have a slightly lower stress rate for the evening Red strikes, some cosmetic stuff and some adjustments to timings.

Thanks for your interest.


ZoroastroBR -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/5/2019 9:01:38 PM)

Thanks. Waiting

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/5/2019 11:47:47 PM)

A long weekend means plenty of time for Command, so...

First Evening - Second Wave

I though the first wave was bad? It was nothing compared to the storm that broke over me next.

The attack in the north comes first, and we get initial indications from our ELINT planes, which report four MiG-25 Wild Weasels, climbing to altitude far to the east in Hungary. If specialists like that are up, then something's going to happen. Packs of MiG-21s and MiG-23s start assembling in western Hungary shortly afterwards, and we start scrambling fighters in response.

I'd love to hit the gathering fighters, but the Pact has MiG-29s and Su-27s coming in through Slovenia in a screen. My last engagement with those was very costly in terms of good missiles, and I can't afford to repeat that, so I have to try something different. I've got a large number of jammers up, and I find that a 'jam-and-run' tactic, combining fighter feints with intermittent jammer operation behind, works very well. The Pact fighters use up their long-range missiles in ineffective shots, and then turn home to reload instead of closing to engage with heat-seekers. I get no kills on them, and they push me back all the way across Slovenia, but once they're gone I have a clear field for a few precious moments.

The swarm breaks and heads my way at 5:49, in the local dusk, and my planes advance to meet them. There's at least a dozen MiG-21s, something like eighteen MiG-23s, and two flights of Fitters coming in low ahead of them. A ferocious fight breaks out near Zagreb, where my F-16s (who had used up their AMRAAMs in the first wave) pile into the MiG-21s, and ruthlessly exploit their frontal-aspect missile advantage. F-104s and F-18s hammer the rest, picking off the leading Su-22s before piling into the fight. Other than the Su-22s, none of the enemy are bombers - all are fighters, but they are badly outclassed by my missile advantages and my pilots claim numerous kills.

But amid the celebration we see more planes launching out of Taszar (probably the real attack), and even more MiG-29s and Su-27s come pouring in, and I don't have the time or space to do the ECM dance again. I've got two flights of F-16 AMRAAM up and one flight of F-15E AMRAAM, my only active missiles until planes reload, and I have to commit them now, to drive back the modern Russian planes. As this happens AWACS reports long streams of aircraft approaching through Hungary, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, and the number keeps growing! I have one reserve fighter base left, at Cervia Pisignano, and all the F-104s there scramble and head for the fight. At Aviano, I start evacuating AWACS and EC-130s and A-6s, sending them west to get them out of the fight. Everything is up. This is going to be close.

The first stream turns out to be MiG-27s, flanked a few minutes later by a stream of Su-24s, and then AWACS reports a third stream of MiG-27s just behind them. My planes fight desperately, gradually giving way as they tear up the incoming river of planes, but we have radar contacts on more angry Flankers, coming in supersonic from Zvolen, and time is limited. We're not even trying to kill things now. If one missile hit is enough to turn a plane for home my pilots let it go, hurrying to the next target. It's 6:30 over central Slovenia now, and suddenly reinforcements arrive. The very first of the quick turnarounds are here from Aviano and Rivolto, and they pitch into the fight at the critical moment, pinning down and driving off the newly arrived Su-27s, so the rest of my pilots can concentrate on the attackers. By 6:45 it's largely over, and my pilots stare at the amazing 75 mile long path, dotted with flaming wreckage from the Hungarian border to central Slovenia.

The attack in the south begins with MiG-23s forming up in Serbia, giving me a chance to get fighters into the area, but my forces here are a lot more limited than in the north. It's just Tornadoes and F-104s, and the F-104s are getting fuel-limited by the time they reach the conflict zone.

The attack opens up with a stream of a dozen MiG-23s passing south of Sarajevo and headed for Split, another stream of MiG-21s and multiple packs of Oraos headed for Sarajevo itself, and a healthy cloud of twenty or more MiG-23s providing fighter cover, with occasional flights of MiG-29s hurrying in from Belgrade.

My pilots manage to destroy the fighters nearest the southern MiG-23s, and then roll up the line from front to back, and none of them make it through to Split. Unfortunately, the attempt to defend Sarajevo goes poorly. My planes come dashing in to hammer the MiG-21s and Oraos as they line up for bomb runs, and they do manage to get a number of them around 6:10, but this brings them too close to the foe. These MiG-23s have AA-11s, and once I'm in Archer range the tables are turned. My few survivors evade to the north-west, fleeing on burner, and fortunately drawing a pack of MiG-23s away in pursuit, but the writing is on the wall. Once again the UNPROFOR facilities at Sarajevo are abandoned to the enemy, who pummels them until the last of their planes turns for home around 6:40. Firefighters and trauma teams rush through the wreckage, assessing the losses. Several buildings are rubble, a few more are damaged, and the HQ compound has taken multiple hits. A number of the tent-sites have been flattened, and in the light of the flaming diesel tanks they can see that one FOB has been hit, and the other is completely gone.

As my defenders were heavily engaged in the Sarajevo area, and falling back once their missiles were exhausted, they spotted yet another attack, this time of MiG-21s coming in from Romania. These weren't headed for Sarajevo - they were headed for Split, from a direction where I had nothing in defense, and it wasn't clear what (if anything) could be sent to stop them. It was a combination of late-arriving F-104s from Grosetto, and the first re-armed Tornadoes, hurtling across the the Adriatic on burner, that managed to intercept what turned out to be a twenty-four plane attack. Most of them were shot down before reaching Split, but a few managed to damage the northern communications outpost before being driven off. (This would not have worked out so well if all those MiG-23s hadn't been busy chasing my survivors away from Sarajevo.)

First Evening - Operations at Sea

While the conflict overhead rages to and fro, operations continue at sea. Two more missile boats have sortied from Kotor, zooming past my sub just out of reach of its torps, so my last four G.91s make a raid, but they only manage to inflict superficial damage, and they hurry home to land in the gathering darkness. Meanwhile the missile boats turn and head north, towards my forces approaching Split.

Most of these have gathered into a mini task-group, for fear of anti-shipping attacks from the swarms of enemy aircraft, and after dark they come into range of the closing missile boats. Two Harpoons are launched at each, coming out of the darkness and smashing the almost defenceless ships. One spare Harpoon continues off into the night, and now I know how Andrea G sank his fishing boat!

Once the air threat has died down my Chinook hurries in at wavetop height to drop off the Carabinieri on the Hansa Carrier and adjacent islands. An Atlantique begins patrolling the approaches to Split, and it finds and sinks an SS a few miles south west of our crippled freighter, which is a great relief. My freighters and warships should all be concentrated here within a couple of hours, and I can do without sharing my haven with a sub.

My minesweepers are already in the region and I have assigned two minesweepers to each of the three outer channels. They should be reaching their patrol zones in an hour or so, and we'll see how well they work against modern mines. Hopefully they can find a way through.

Looking at my other ships, I realize I've left my most modern ship (the Emden) with the best air defenses all alone up near Venice, patrolling for smugglers and sub incursions. I could really use it down with the others, but it's six hours away at flank speed, and I'm not sure it's worth the risk to move it so hastily. Meanwhile, far to the south the Garibaldi continues to head north. It's done nothing so far, and I suspect it will arrive too late to contribute meaningfully. I'll be glad to drop off the Stromboli in Brindisi, and get on with operations.

First Night - Continued Air Operations

The major attacks seem to be over, for now, but there's plenty of air activity ongoing.

I'm constantly skirmishing with Flankers and Fulcrums in Slovenia, and Fulcrums probing from Belgrade towards Split. I've got jammers up in both areas, to allow me to do the 'ECM runaway', which has been crucial to my success so far. Unfortunately, the problem with that tactic is that the enemy just comes back in a few hours with new missiles, so it's not particularly decisive in itself. I try to knock off the tail end charlie of the retreating planes from each wave, but you have to be really careful, or they tend to whip around to beam your missile and you suddenly find yourself head-to-head with an Archer...

One startling twist on this tactic happened shortly after the main raids, when another four MiG-25 Wild Weasels flew in, making me wonder if something else was in the works. There were a dozen good enemy fighters in advance of them, so I was desperately doing the jam-and-run, and having decent success, when all of a sudden long range missiles were inbound, without radar emissions. The Su-27s out of Zvolen were lobbing Alamo-Bs at me! My pilots managed to dodge most of that, and get the MiG-25s too, but the Su-27s remain frustratingly elusive.

At 19:52 AWACS started reporting another stream of planes coming through Hungary, moving rather slowly, but on-course for the Maribor airfield in eastern Slovenia. Possibly some sort of level bombing attack with obscure old-generation aircraft? (Beagles??) There seemed to be plenty of enemy fighters accumulating in the area too, which raised suspicions all around. A counter-raid was launched, taking plenty of ECM and AMRAAMs, which drove away the first fighters, before engaging the second set. Good Su-27 kills, at last! Then, as we closed on the border an SA-10 opened up on us from near Lake Balaton. Everyone dove for the deck to dodge, and managed to get away with it, but the SA-10 is one more thing to take into account for tonight's attack.

And those slow-moving attackers? An-26s! This was either a coup-de-main / unopposed landing, or a night paradrop attempt (seems risky). In either case, F-104s were plenty to deal with the cargo planes and make their escape before the next set of Su-27s came in from Zvolen.

In the aftermath of this confusion a flight of F-16s, shadowed by an EF-111, headed east to the triple border corner of Croatia, Hungary, and Serbia. With nobody around they pounced on the passing Madcap, before running hard for home with angry MiGs launching in pursuit. This is the second AEW plane of theirs I've knocked down. Hopefully they don't have a third.

Next steps and considerations

I have two main items upcoming. I need to hit the enemy airbases, and I need to defend my ships while trying to clear the minefields towards Split.

The airbase attack will probably go reasonably well at first. I have plenty of HARMs and jammers, and I'm aware of the SA-10. (Well, at least one of them. There may well be more.) The Tornadoes with anti-runway bomblets may be a disaster, but I think my F-15Es should be able to mess up the runways with BLU-109s. I can also muster a very credible CAP with good missiles for at least one strike.

I am more worried about the ships near Split. The Pact is pressing hard with fighter sweeps into this area, and I'm running out of planes to fend them off. Playing the ECM-runaway game means they just keep coming back! I don't want to let them in to see me, but it's getting more difficult to muster a CAP at this distance to prevent that. There's six MiG-29s coming in towards Split right now, and all I have there is one flight of Tornadoes. In a few hours I'll have more Tornadoes ready, but even so I'm concerned that I'll get jumped before I can react in strength. (Especially now that I'm sending minesweepers to three different straits at once.) I wish I could refuel F-104s, but that's not an option, and I may need to send some American planes south.

My AMRAAM stocks are also cause for concern. I've used 130 so far. I've got 80 on planes right now, but only 20 left in the magazines. (And once I reload planes coming home from killing the AEW, I'll only have 14.) So my ability to push back MiG-29s and Su-27s will go away after one or two more efforts. I haven't been wasting them on minor targets either, but the odds vs. a nimble modern fighter are low, so it takes a lot to accomplish a little.

It's now 20:50 Local. What's coming next?

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/6/2019 12:55:23 AM)

What indeed? [:D]

Great write up as usual Andrew - thanks, good fun to read.


AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/7/2019 9:49:02 PM)

Anyone else having trouble getting the mineclearing ROVs to work?

I have launched them, and I want them to proceed ahead of their parent ship, as they both advance slowly into the straits.

However, the ROVs instantly halt and clear their path every time I give them a command.

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/7/2019 10:50:15 PM)

Good grief! There really are smugglers... [X(]

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/8/2019 12:01:41 AM)


I want them to proceed ahead of their parent ship

Have you tried putting them on a mine clearing mission?

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/8/2019 12:02:27 AM)


Good grief! There really are smugglers...

[8D]Would I lie about a thing like that?[;)]

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/8/2019 12:09:53 AM)


ORIGINAL: Gunner98


I want them to proceed ahead of their parent ship

Have you tried putting them on a mine clearing mission?

Turns out that when they launched they had the home base of their parent ship, on the far side of the Adriatic, rather than their home base being their parent ship. Now that I've changed that they seem to be working.

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/8/2019 2:06:58 AM)

Is the Hansa intended to be un-recoverable, as a plot point? The mines are so close to it that clearing them will further damage (and almost certainly destroy) the ship.

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/8/2019 9:21:21 AM)

She is un-recoverable, but I need to move her slightly so the mines don't sink her.

Andrea G -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/9/2019 7:40:29 AM)



Turns out that when they launched they had the home base of their parent ship, on the far side of the Adriatic, rather than their home base being their parent ship. Now that I've changed that they seem to be working.

Great catch!
I will try again to sweep those mines with the correct home base!
Have You been able to sweep those mines with cable cutters?

michaelm75au -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/9/2019 8:01:57 AM)




ORIGINAL: Gunner98


I want them to proceed ahead of their parent ship

Have you tried putting them on a mine clearing mission?

Turns out that when they launched they had the home base of their parent ship, on the far side of the Adriatic, rather than their home base being their parent ship. Now that I've changed that they seem to be working.

Issue has been logged.

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/9/2019 10:58:03 AM)


Great catch!
I will try again to sweep those mines with the correct home base!
Have You been able to sweep those mines with cable cutters?

Depending in which minesweeper it is, yes. Some of the sweepers only have mechanical cable cutters on their sweeps (which won't work for the rising mines), and others have magnetic and acoustic countermeasures on their sweeps. Those ones are working.

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/9/2019 11:06:27 PM)

Hey! You're not supposed to have those in cigarette boats! [:-]

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/12/2019 8:43:13 PM)

Time for another update, I think.

First Night – skirmishing continues

As the night deepens, skirmishing continues in the north and the south, as the Soviets keep trying to force air superiority over Slovenia, and the Sarajevo/Split area. Is there no end to the Su-27s coming out of Zvolen? Or the interfering MiG-29s from Belgrade? I keep fending them off, foiling their missile shots, and picking off their tail-end-charlies, but I’m rapidly using up my ready planes, which are now going into their three-hour recycle phase. Aspides are running low too, and it’s only 7 hours into the fight! Down south, my returning F-104s sometimes have to dump Aspides to lighten their loads enough to get back home, which definitely doesn’t help.

It turns out the Soviets do have a third AEW plane, so another pair of F-18s and an EF-111 are sent out to intercept it, killing it and an AN-12 jammer in the traditional location. Just in time too, since I really didn’t want it up during my attack.

First night – Airfield Attack

Our first major attack is a strike on the two forward airbases in Hungary, Heviz-Balaton and Taszar. The plan is for an initial fighter screen to clear the way by 23:00 local, followed by a wave of Tornadoes with HARM at high altitude, to knock off enemy SAM defences. Then the low-level Tornadoes go in, using MW-1 bomblet dispensers to attack the (hopefully) radar-less SAM sites, while those with the anti-runway version hit the airfield directly. Some night-vision AMXs and F-16s with IR Maverick are part of the attack to deal with any mobile pop-up targets, and I also have F-15Es with BLU-109 LGBs, to tackle the runways in case the Tornadoes fail. Jammers and tankers form the support cadre.

The attack goes much more smoothly than I had feared. The lone SA-10 gets knocked down quickly, along with the radars on SA-5s and surveillance sites, and the local SAM radars don’t illuminate at first. The Tornadoes turn out to be murderous against the SAM sites, and most of the first line of SAMs are gone within moments. The Hungarian bases don’t have the heavy low-level defences of a military formation, and the Tornadoes attacking there rapidly sever the runways, while others dump cluster munitions all over the open parking (which turns out to be empty at Heviz-Balaton, but full of MiG-21s and Su-22s at Taszar). There’s some commotion as a pair of MiG-29s tries to land in the midst of the approaching strike, but AWACS directs my attackers to stay clear while the fighters are shot down. There are no losses to ground fire, until a flight of Tornadoes decides to make a second pass, and one gets shot down by the now-alerted 57mm gunners.

The strike is out shortly before midnight, flying home through Slovenia without significant pursuit. As the strike heads for home, many of the planes still have some unexpended ordnance, particularly HARMs, all the F-15s with LGBs, and many of the Tornadoes with MW-1s. Those MW-1s are extremely heavy and draggy, and it takes some hasty juggling of tankers to keep the Tornadoes in the air until they can all land in sequence.

As staff assess the strike, it’s clear they could have been more ambitious, tackling the second line of SAMs and airfields, and still have had good chances of success. On the other hand, that might have triggered interceptors from bases further away, so perhaps it’s best to take it in stages. (As a player, I was really tempted to muster my airborne planes which still had ordnance, and make an impromptu attack. In reality, I doubt an ‘on-the-fly’ change of that scale could be accomplished, particularly for attack pilots who wouldn’t have a detailed attack plan or target briefing, so I managed to avoid the temptation.)

First Night – Further Air Operations

Enemy air activity is dropping perceptibly by now, with longer gaps between flights of fighters coming to challenge my patrols. There’s a brief pulse of activity around 01:30, when a few attack planes followed by some MiG-25 recce planes make a probe in the north, but that is dealt with without many problems. Then it’s quiet in the north, and a little later, quiet in the south. The enemy patrols have finally stopped. Is the enemy finally exhausted?

In the pause that follows, a flight of Tornadoes darts into Serbia to pick off the Cub jammer loitering there, prompting an immediate and angry response from MiG-29s out of Belgrade and MiG-23s from Timisoara. It seems the enemy’s not finished quite yet, and my chastened planes scuttle away to safety.

First Night – Naval Operations

Naval operations continued throughout the night. After some discussion, the Emden, which was patrolling near Venice, was ordered to head south at flank speed, to meet up with the ships headed for Split. I wanted her excellent close-range air defense systems present to cover the cargo ships when they finally head for the port. In the meantime the cargo ships are gradually arriving and anchoring at their form-up point near the islands. Their escorts are patrolling around banging away on their active sonars, and an Atlantique is flying about dropping sonobuoys, but so far, the anchorage appears empty of additional lurking submarines.

Smuggling and infiltration activity picks up during the night, and the enemy makes several attempts to sneak agents in using small aircraft (Cessnas and AN-2s) and cigarette boats. AWACS picks up the enemy contacts without difficulty (some coming from ‘neutral’ Albania), and planes are sent to deal with the targets. The little AMXs turn out to be perfect for this, combining a gun, a couple of missiles, and some bombs, along with good night vision and refuelling capability. They spend much of the night loitering quietly, before swooping in to deal with the enemy, and they account for most of the smugglers without any problems, although one does get startled when a cigarette boat takes a shot with an old SA-7. One smuggling boat has the misfortune to dart out of cover right in front of the Emden, whose annoyed captain (who had hoped to transit discretely) promptly sinks it with gunfire.

The minesweepers continued their work, clearing the center channel around the damaged Hansa Carrier cargo ship, and allowing the tug to reach its destination. After a few hours of work to attach cables, the ship is now under tow towards port. (As mentioned, the nearby mines are so close to the ship that clearing them would cause it to sink. This is intended to be changed in future versions, so I used the editor to repair the damage and keep the ship afloat. Then, after a few hours I fixed the engines, to allow it to move, made a two-ship group with the tug, and sailed it at creep towards port. I think this is a reasonable representation of the towing process.)

The minesweepers in the center then proceeded to Split, confirming there were no mines in front of Split harbour. The eastern sweepers cleared the field in the Hvarski canal, although in retrospect I should probably have left it there as a shield. I’m not certain if the sub in Kotor sortied, and if it headed towards Split then that minefield could have been a useful flank guard. Hopefully the other eastern strait, the Bracki canal, is mined too. The western sweepers cleared Soltanski canal, then proceeded to Split, finding and removing a few scattered mines en-route.

The Emden arrived in the small hours of the morning, and then the entire force formed up and moved out in a single line ahead, with HMCS St. Laurent leading by several miles to proof the lane. By 03:30 local the merchants were steaming through the Soltanski canal at a steady 10 knots, under cover of darkness, and headed for Split.

Second Day – Serbian response

Not long after my convoy cleared the canal, AWACS began reporting new contacts forming up over Belgrade, and ELINT confirmed both MiG-29 and MiG-21 radar emissions from that direction. Dammit! I had hoped my ships would be undetected in the dark, but evidently, they’ve been spotted somehow, and the enemy is launching an anti-shipping strike against them.

The air controller immediately starts scrambling fighters; F-104s and Tornadoes from southern and central Italy. If they’re using ASMs against me then I’ll probably want some AMRAAMs to tackle the missiles, so some F-16s are called in from Aviano too. I have one flight of Tornadoes stationed on CAP NE of Split, but naturally they’re out of position, refuelling 70 miles away over the ocean.

As the CAP turns to head back, I start getting a better count on the enemy. There’s a dense pack of 9 MiG-29s, and a pair of MiG-21s, and then some pairs of attackers coming in low and only just now showing up on radar. They’re not headed for my ships at all. They’re headed for the UNPROFOR base at Sarajevo – again! My two Tornadoes dash in to interfere as best they can, getting a few shots off before they have to fall back with the MiGs in pursuit, but Sarajevo gets bombed for the third time. Fortunately my new Tornadoes come burnering in across the ocean, and pile in to the enemy, driving away the Fulcrums and killing many of the attack planes. Then, with skies clear, they zip into Serbia, knock off some jammers and ELINT planes, and withdraw, killing a few pursuing MiG-23s which were launched in response.

An embarrassing misinterpretation on my part, but fortunately no major harm done.

Second Day – pre-dawn

It is now nearly dawn. The merchants are starting to dock in Split, and my naval forces are ringing the port to form a SAM defence in the case of intrusion. The Stromboli is safely docked in Brindisi, and the Garibaldi group is approaching the Gargano peninsula, but so far hasn’t contributed anything to the fight. I had considered making a night Harrier attack on the Kotor naval base, but I’ve left it alone for the moment. I have heavy naval overmatch in the Adriatic now, so it’s not an immediate priority, and I’d rather wait for more HARMs to be ready than to rush the SAMs unsupported.

For the moment, plans are for strikes on Kotor and the next line of Hungarian airbases and SAMs later in the day. I’m not sure if I’ll wait for darkness. The real spoiler would be a Pact ground offensive, which may need heavy ground attack work from all those A-10s, AMXs, and G.91s.

The air situation seems to be in my favour for the moment, despite dwindling missile stocks. All my AMRAAMs are on aircraft now, and there won’t be any more, so some of the good F-16s are reloading for ground attack. I’m out of Aspides at Grazzanise, my main F-104 base in the south, so I’m starting to ferry some of the F-104s north to reload. Nevertheless, unless the Pact brings in major reinforcements of high-end fighters, I think I should be able to hold the line for now.

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/12/2019 9:10:40 PM)

Thanks Andrew

Good point on the Ground Attack aircraft. I'll build up that story and gradually take them away, not sure I can replicate a ground offensive but grounding the AC has the same effect.

Was hoping the smugglers would give you more grief - ah well, at least it was a distraction.

magi -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/15/2019 4:09:38 PM)

I enjoy reading these reports ....

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/16/2019 9:07:22 PM)

I enjoy writing them! So it all works out. [:D]

Second Day - Romanian Dawn Attack

Shortly before dawn my ships adjust their positions around Split, and the minesweepers find a few more isolated explosives among the islands. My fighters deal with a few wandering Floggers, and an AMX is sent out in the dark to discretely reconnoiter the Kotor naval base using its night vision equipment.

Then AWACS reports a pair of MiG-23s launching out of Timisoara. Just a patrol? Possibly, although all the previous patrols have been MiG-29s out of Belgrade. A minute later a second pair launch, then a third, and MiG-21 radars are detected in Romania near Craiova. This is a raid, not a patrol! Could it be that Sarajevo is about to get bombed for a fourth time, and the command staff still hasn't managed to mount a useful defence? Heck no! Tornadoes are taking off and hurtling across the Adriatic on afterburner, followed by Mirages and F-104s, tankers are hurrying to the area to support homeward bound planes if necessary, and ECM planes are moving up to support positions. This time we're going to get there first!

Elsewhere, the sudden screaming of the SAM warning makes Captain Ceasare Italiano jerk his head up in alarm from the balky navigation display in the cockpit of his AMX. In a moment of brown-pantsed terror he realizes that he's flying directly over the Kotor naval base at low altitude, and SAMs are inbound! Command couldn't have let him get so far astray, could they? (Sure they could... I was staring so hard at the incoming raid I completely forgot my recce AMX!) He wrenches the stick violently, boots the rudder, dumps his Mk.82s on the first thing in front of him, and heads for the deck. The bombs explode and start a string of violent secondaries that destroy an SA-3 site, as tracers streak past him from all sides. The captain just clears a ridgeline, his RWR screaming in his ears, and dives to the water of the harbour beyond as an SA-6, suddenly blind, goes hurtling overhead. He's across the harbour in a moment, then up into a mountain valley and away, white-faced and shaking.

(It's little moments like these that make Command so enjoyable for me. Theater-wide scope, and local action, all in one.)

The enraged captain has a 'frank discussion' with his controllers when he gets back to base, but a review of the recorder for his night-vision sensors has valuable information. The Serbian sub is still in port, which is excellent news, along with a number of patrol boats, and yet another of those darned Konis. It'll be worth a morning strike if I can catch all of those at the dock.

Meanwhile, my fighters have reached Sarajevo ahead of the enemy, and they get a good look at the incoming raid in the light of dawn. There's 27 of them in total, mostly MiG-21s, with some MiG-23s further back, and a couple of packs of Oraos, and then two MiG-21 recce planes trailing far behind. Most importantly, there are no MiG-29s to interfere, and my fighters pile into the fray, gleefully massacreing the enemy with frontal aspect missiles, while the enemy cannot reply. Only one escapes, and they never get within sight of Sarajevo. Honour is restored! Most of my fighters head home, but it turns out the fight is not quite over, and in the course of the next hour a dozen each of light attack planes and Mig-21s try making low-level approaches. Without fighter escort they are soon headed off and destroyed.

Second Day - Morning Strikes

Now it's my turn to take the offensive, and planes launched in northern Italy head south to strike at the Kotor naval base, pausing to tank over the ocean west of Split. The earlier AMX reconaissance flight had revealed that there was plenty of flack and MANPADS in the area, so the plan was for the majority of the strike to be done by LGBs, keeping safely above the air defence envelope. However, this still left the heavy SAMs to deal with. Tornados carrying HARMs quickly destroyed the surveillance radar, and then veteran F-16s come in extremely low, less than a hundred feet above the waves, before popping up briefly to launch Mavericks at the SA-6. This turns out to be two SA-6s, not one, but my pilots still manage to do enough damage to each of them, combined with HARM shots, to put them out of action, while SAMs go streaking overhead. The remaining SA-2 and SA-3 radars are also put out of commission by HARMs, and then the Mirages and Jaguars are able to move in with LGBs and pummel the naval base and surrounding infrastructure and forces. By the time they are done the area is a burning ruin, and only the hotel and a scattering of light anti-aircraft units remain intact. All the ships and the sub in port are destroyed, and the attackers fly home in good order.

A worrying consequence of the strike was the unexpected intervention of Albania. Up to this point I had no interaction with Albanian forces, keeping my ships on the far side of the Adriatic, and my aircraft away from their shores. Now my Kotor attack has drawn their attention, and two of their old MiG-21 clones crossed the border into Serbia on afterburner, heading for my strike aircraft. I wish there was some way to say 'turn back or else', but there isn't, and the obsolescent Albanian fighters are swiftly shot down when it's clear they won't turn back. This leaves me with a hostile Albania on my flank. I know they don't have modern combat forces, but they are very close to my southern Italian bases, and a sudden swarm attack of light attackers could be a problem. Now I must keep sufficient fighters ready in case of an attack from that direction.

In the meantime, more skirmishing followed while the attackers headed home, with occasional MiG-29s venturing out of Kiskunlachaza in Hungary, and MiG-23s trying to intercept me out of Timisoara in Romania, whenever I ventured into Serbian airspace to chase the ELINT planes. These are usually in ones or twos, so they're not a major problem. However, my attempt to send a recce Mirage to examine the next set of Hungarian airbases was interrupted and driven away before it could complete its mission. The Papa airbase appears to be empty (except for whatever's lurking in shelters), but I still don't know whether anything significant's on the pad at Buda-West.

The next attack of mine comes mid-morning, when a strike is launched on the next two Hungarian bases, Papa, and Buda West. It follows a similar pattern to my first airfield attack, although it's not quite as big. The major difference is that this is a daylight strike, and I'm reluctant to run my Tornadoes through the airfield flack when they can see me coming. Therefore the runways are tackled by F-15Es dropping BLU-109 LGBs from medium altitude instead. All goes well, despite the incredible missile-dodging MiG-29s that try to interfere from Kiskunlachaza (13 shots for 2 hits...), and when it's done the second Hungarian SAM line is gone and both airfields are shut.

As the strike planes head home, my HARM-carrying Tornadoes on SEAD duty head further east, and fire speculative bearing-only HARM shots towards the next Hungarian airbases, Kiskunlachaza and Tokol. A hidden SA-10 at Tokol takes the bait, and lights up to engage, and promptly gets a salvo of HARMs in return, which destroy its radars. The Tornadoes then sweep south towards Serbia, killing the Spoon Rest which has been radiating there for most of the game. Speculative shots towards Belgrade don't cause any SAM response, but the MiG-29s based there launch quickly and my Tornadoes prudently decide its time to withdraw to Italy.

Second day - late morning

The situation at this point looks good. The four frontal Hungarian bases have had their runways cratered, and the SA-2s, SA-3s, and SA-5s that made up the two Hungarian SAM lines have been destroyed, along with two SA-10 sites. The Kotor naval base has been destroyed, along with the last of the Serbian ships. My merchants are safely docked at Split with heavy naval SAM cover, most of the mines are gone (except for the fourth minefield, which I'm keeping for the moment), and the Hansa Carrier is under tow back to Italy. UNPROFOR HQ at Sarajevo is battered, but repairs are underway, the UNPROFOR base at Split is essentially undamaged, and IFOR HQ at Zagreb was never attacked.

My missile stocks are definitely getting low now. Two of my Italian bases are out of Aspides for the F-104s, Aviano has no more AMRAAMs in its bunkers, and my Tornado ADVs have no more spare SkyFlash missiles either. While the F-104s can fly to other bases for missiles, the F-16s and Tornado ADVs can't. About 75% of those planes still have long range missiles, but once they use them there will be no more. As a result, I'm starting to transition more of my CAP responsibilities to the F-18s and Mirages.

Fortunately, enemy air activity is greatly reduced at the moment. I am still seeing pairs of MiG-29s flying intercept missions from Kiskunlachaza in Hungary and Belgrade in Serbia, as well as MiG-23s coming from Timisoara in Romania, but I'm not seeing large standing CAPs or extensive ELINT/AWACS patrols. Enemy attack plane losses have been ruinous. I may start seeing damaged planes coming back into play as damage is repaired, but I doubt they can field large coordinated strike packages.

I think I've accomplished most of my given objectives at this point. In the absence of further target taskings from high command, I may try fighter sweeps to draw out the remaining interceptors, and then possibly attack further airbases, although the distances are starting to get quite large. It's now 10:40 hrs local time. We shall see!

(Gunner98, is there more significant action to come, or is it safe to take a look at the other side now?)

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/16/2019 11:14:41 PM)


I think that's about it. There is probably about 18 hours left in the scenario and a few more smugglers but you've done enough damage I think. There may be a few more raids and probably the only big one that will cause any concern is with the remaining Su-24s. I think I may truncate the scenario about last light on day 2.


AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/17/2019 2:00:40 PM)

I let the game run another hour or so, but nothing else special happened, so I wrapped it up. Many assorted observations follow. (I should learn to be more concise.)

OVERALL. This is an interesting scenario, particularly the transition from the little parochial concerns (smugglers and the like) to the overwhelming scale of the massive attacks of a total war. The ominous news updates of things gradually going wrong in the Balkans worked nicely to elevate tension as the opening stages of the scenario progressed. The 'double-ended' attack worked well, and although I managed to hold the line in the north, I was caught somewhat off-balance in the south, and couldn't bring in northern resources to help, so Sarajevo was bombed several times before I got fully on top of the situation. Having to look in both places at once is an interesting challenge.

INITIAL BRIEFING. I have to admit, at the start of the scenario I hadn't even considered the UNPROFOR or IFOR bases and forces as something specific to be taken into account of during the fighting. My focus was entirely on Italy, and Split harbour. It was only after the enemy strikes started coming in that I realised there were other allied facilities (other than empty airbases) that I should defend across the Adriatic, or that there might be evacuation flights that I should protect. Perhaps a line or two could be added to the briefing, describing the main bases, and mentioning the evacuation, just to put it in the player's mind that those places exist? An intelligence report on the Serbian navy OOB, and the air-forces of Serbia and Romania might also be helpful.

SMUGGLERS. The smugglers were an interesting touch. At first, I thought they might be a serious concern, then when I saw the scope of the attack I thought they would be utterly insignificant in the greater scheme of things and wouldn’t show up at all, and then they really did appear. A nice back-and-forth. AN-2s are always cool, and the SA-7 on the boats (which I had assumed would be defenceless) was a nice surprise too. I think you may have given us too much warning about the boats. Getting an immediate message about every one the moment it hits the water seems optimistic. Maybe one reminder warning in the evening, an hour or so in advance, would suffice for all of them? (“Sir, agents report smugglers have been given go codes”, etc.) That way it’s up to the player to be alert and monitor their coastal traffic. A few ‘new contacts’ that are actually fishing boats, not smugglers, might be fun confusion too. I suspect the smuggler boats wouldn’t have their radars on, since that’s a perfect way to say ‘here I am’, and they would probably operate with radars off.

UNPROFOR FLIGHTS. Currently, the UNPROFOR evacuation flights are under AI control, and the ferry mission will launch the vulnerable cargo planes despite the presence of swarms of MiG-29s overhead, which can be suicidal. Having them come cruising into an active air combat zone is a recipe for death. It seems very unlikely that they would launch under such circumstances, particularly as NATO AWACS flights would give ample warning of the enemy warplanes. Perhaps those flights would be better handled from the player side, allowing the player to make the tradeoffs to run the evacuation, provide escorts, etc.? Or, if they are to be kept on the allied side, then maybe changing the flights to low altitude and high speed might give them a better chance to avoid interception? (Personally, I switched sides and turned the missions off until the air situation improved.)

HANSA CARRIER AND TUG. Was there supposed to be some event (other than scoring) associated with the tug's arrival at the Hansa Carrier? (Engine repair, or the like?) There's a lot of emphasis on landing Carabinieri on the ship itself, and on the adjacent islands, and then getting the tug there, but nothing seems to happen after that. The trigger zone around the ship is also very small, and players could send the tug to a point nearby that seems close enough, without realizing they have actually missed.

SCORING. Is the scoring complete for this version of the scenario? Currently, the scoring seems to be out of step with the activities the player is performing. The player is awarded 100 points for parking a tug beside a damaged freighter (which has almost no war benefit), 25 points for each freighter landed at Split, and 5 points for destroying a smuggler/agent. However, despite their orders to attack airbases and naval bases, they are awarded no points for successfully achieving these war objectives, and no points for destroying hundreds of attacking enemy aircraft and a dozen or more ships and subs. The scoring thresholds are very high in relation to the available pool of points ('average' starts at 750, for example), and it is not be possible to achieve any of the victory levels.

MIG-25 WILD WEASEL. The MiG-25 Wild Weasels are coming in with their distinctive radars on, which is an immediate giveaway about their role. The radars wouldn’t help them in their task, and if the radars were off the player may confuse the planes with other recce Foxbats and ignore them. (Or if they were set to ‘normal’ high altitude, like most other planes, then they would just be one more jet contact.) As it was, I was able to recognize them immediately and took special steps to intercept them before they could reach launch range.

HOW THE HECK… did I manage to not get overwhelmed by the massive air raids? The one and only reason is that in this scenario I finally figured out how to use OECM. In the past, I have usually flown my OECM planes to their loiter points, turned on the jammers, and left them alone. Having them in the background cuts down the range at which the enemy can use SARH missiles, which is helpful. It gives me a few more miles in which I can shoot while the enemy cannot. However, eventually the enemy gets close enough to burn through the jamming, and then the engagement proceeds as normal.

It turns out what I should have been doing is keeping the jammers off, and letting the enemy fire at normal range. Then immediately turn the jammers on, dropping the range at which the enemy can illuminate the target to less than the current range. The missiles go blind, and five seconds later they self destruct. Then turn the jammers off again. Now the enemy can illuminate once more, and they will fire again. Turn the jammers back on, the second set of missiles goes blind, and 5 seconds later they self destruct. Repeat as necessary… You have to be careful to keep your distance while doing this, and it helps to drop your RCS by turning tail when you’re illuminated, and raise your RCS by turning broadside when you’re not, but if you can pull it off it’s a very reliable way of defeating SARH missiles.

This alone would not have been enough to defeat the enemy, if they had been able to press in and attack with their excellent AA-11s. However, if their WRA is set for BVR attacks only, then they will turn away and RTB once their long-range missiles are gone. That’s what was happening here, as I was able to repeatedly send home enemy fighters by using up their BVR missiles, particularly MiG-29s, which only have two AA-10s. Once the fighters turned away I could attack them from behind as they retired, and I had a much better chance against the undefended attack planes they left behind.

This sort of jam-listen-jam procedure is real, and is applied both in communications jamming and countermeasures jamming. Apparently, always-on barrage jamming isn't always the best tactic, and it is often better to jam only when there is something specific to jam. The trouble is, the AI can't recognise the tactic, and 'falls for it' every time. While human pilots might lose some missiles this way, they'd probably recognize what was happening and hold fire until they could burn through at closer range. The AI can't make that decision.

AI countermeasures to this could be changing the fighter WRA to allow them to take WVR shots (so they don't immediately fly home), or dropping the range at which they will fire to less than the burn-through range. The newer Russian fighters, carrying high-off-boresight AA-11s, are better than the NATO fighters at close range, so they would probably benefit from being in close. The MiG-29s, which have only two AA-10s, but four AA-11s, would definitely excel in this arena.

You might be able to execute this tactic against the player, sort of, by using Lua to flash your jammers on and off at 15 second intervals. You'd probably need to have your jammers closer in behind a raid to do this, and I'm not sure if it could be coordinated effectively purely using missions.

In a way, I'm sorry I figured this tactic out. While it let me hold off the horde, it feels somewhat asymmetric. I think Andrea G's playthrough is probably a more realistic outcome than mine, and allowed for a lot of interesting play (clever use of mobile SAMs, etc.), which I missed out on.

F-104s I have to admit, the F-104s aren't as bad as I had feared. Although they are obsolescent, their extremely high-speed afterburner dash can make sudden intercepts, is superb for running down retiring foes, and gets a plane out of trouble too. They can take an Aspide shot, watch their foe dive to evade, and if (when...) they miss they point their nose up and hurtle into the stratosphere like a rocket, before the enemy can climb to catch them. Just don't get them in close to anything with an AA-11, or they're meat on the table.

GARIBALDI In my playthrough the Garibaldi group didn't make any contributions. I didn't use the Garibaldi in the previous scenario, so I used it here for storyline continuity, but it was so far away I had the naval situation under control before it got into the Adriatic, and I was reluctant to use its slow-moving Harriers to face off against the MiGs and SAMs. By the time the SAMs were dealt with Kotor was bombed anyway, so there was little to do.


Eight of the Fencers at Debrecen, carrying AS-18 Kazoos, are not assigned to any mission. Those 60 nm range missiles would definitely have been a problem if they got deep enough into Slovenia to attack the Italian bases, although that might have been tough to do. They could easily have gotten to launch positions on IFOR HQ at Zagreb and probably the two UNPROFOR bases as well, coming in from the north where my defences were weakest.

The Su-24s carrying KAB-1500s at Debrecen have the range to get to Aviano, but they don't have a lot to spare, so if they are forced to low level to dodge missiles they may consume too much fuel and have to turn back. I saw a few drop out of the stream this way. Perhaps they could be based a little further forward?

I reran the Aviano attack and let it proceed unopposed, just to see how it all worked. The HAS strike did very well, and the Parking strike was okay, getting about half the aircraft in the parking line. The ammo strike got a lot of hits, but in the end only killed two bunkers despite numerous impacts. Those bunkers are tough! The runway strike did half damage to the taxiway and nothing to the runway.

The recce Su-17s at Kunmadaras have no mission.

By the end of my game there were 14 Su-27s in reserve at Zvolen, because the base had run out of AA-10-Cs. Is this an intentional missile limitation, like NATO's limited number of AMRAAMs?

There are 40 MiG-29s at Tokol with no mission! Good god. Even my dirtiest micromanager tricks would have been overwhelmed by that many more planes, by simple ammo exhaustion alone if nothing else.

The ECM and ELINT Su-24s at Limanskoye have no mission. Were they supposed to have been on jamming missions along the Romanian west border?

I never did spot the Kilo. My course towards the italian coast, to avoid provoking Albania, happened to take me too far away to encounter it.

The Pact considers UNPROFOR unfriendly, rather than hostile, so it won't engage transport flights. (Then again, there's no chance it will go after UNPROFOR bases by accident either.)


Four recce MiG-21s at Taszar have no mission.

There are 40 Frogfoots at Buda West with no loadouts or missions. They're out of range of the Italian bases, although they could hit IFOR at Zagreb.


Albanian subs will leave their patrol zones to investigate contacts half-way up the Adriatic.(Possibly intentional?)

Albanian sub S422 is not assigned to its mission.


The Serbian sub missions are duplicated. There is both an inactive Janak Ptl and an active Janak Ptl, and similarly an inactive and active Sava Ptl. The subs are each assigned to the inactive patrols, and as a result they do not move or attack. One patrol (Janak) will allow subs to leave the patrol area, the other will not.

Seven of the Serbian vessels at Kotor have activation times that are beyond the length of the scenario, and they are not assigned to a mission. I assume this intentionally represents ships at low readiness?

The spies on the island have no night vision gear, and thus cannot detect ships working the minefields or transiting the straits during the dark. As a result they probably did not see my line of merchants going through. (This may be quite realistic if they are supposed to be sympathetic civilians, rather than regular military units.)

The Serbs have no runway access points at Pristina / Slatina AB, which seems to be why my warships and minelayers were never attacked by the Serb Ship Strike mission (even though the spy at Split has spotted me). The planes are trying to take off, but are stuck continuously waiting. The planes at Sjenica and Usice-Ponikve, which are on the same mission, are not taking off either, even though they are closer, and do have runway access points. This is probably because the max number of flights is set at 6, and the stuck planes at Pristina are already filling that limit. I got away easy here - there were 32 attackers (plus escorts) that should have been headed my way.

I wonder if there's a Lua way to release escort planes from a mission if there are no longer enough attack planes to make it worthwhile? For example, there are 8 MiG-23 escorts ready at Kraljevo, but they cannot fight because they are waiting for the few surviving attackers on the Mig Ship Strike mission to be repaired. Similarly for the Romanian UNPROFOR Log Strike mission, etc.


Romania considers UNPROFOR to be unfriendly, rather than hostile. It's planes on the UNPROFOR HQ (Land Strike) mission will arrive at Sarajevo and orbit overhead, but will not drop weapons as a result. Ditto for their other strike missions.

Five MiG-21Rs ar Bucharest have no mission.

Many of the EO-pod carrying recce MiG-21s are on escort duty for this and other strike missions, but they did not seem to press on to fly over the target when the mission is executed. I generally saw them form up early, recognizing them by their radars, but then they would stay at the rear of the pack, so I don't think they were providing effective target spotting, if that is what you had intended them to do. The MiG-25 RBS recce planes were acting the same way.

The Kog Intercept mission only has a range of 120 nm, which is barely enough to get to Bucharest. While the player is rather unlikely to be making attacks this far into Romania, it might be useful to cover the capital with good fighers.

Assorted Typos, etc.

Side briefing - campaign to sew unrest (sow)

Side briefing - should the Red Hord attack (horde)

Side briefing - Comd NTFA: Good day Geneal (General)

Side briefing - Forth, if the Serbian navy (Fourth)

Smuggling Brief - {role with it – you may not have asked but play along ;-)} (roll)

Smuggling Brief - Fuel is their Achilles Heal (heel)

Smuggling Brief - usually within 5-10 minuets (minutes)

Smuggling Brief - the real target is to sew political unrest (sow)

Side - "Hugary" (Hungary)

Event - "UNPRAFOR" casualties (UNPROFOR)

AndrewJ -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/17/2019 2:19:33 PM)

Forgot to add...

ASPIDES The three main F-104 bases have 72/72/42 Aspides in their magazines, plus the ones on their planes, but the forward deployment base at Rivolto has 400 of them. Were there supposed to be so many? (They're certainly welcome, but it does seem a lot in comparison.)

Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/17/2019 2:36:03 PM)

Thank you Andrew - a lot of good points and food for thought.

The shortage of missiles and the low readiness of the ships is intentional, as are the idle Frogfoots (Frogfeet?). The Su-25s are there to support the ground offensive and act as targets - plus they will deploy forward to the Slovenian base for the next scenario. I need to simulate the ground war somehow as you pointed out.

I'll chew on this for a bit and get out an update shortly.

Cheers and do not concern yourself about conciseness - these reports are golden!


Ancalagon451 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/17/2019 8:51:36 PM)


The runway strike did half damage to the taxiway and nothing to the runway.

That one was to be expected, I'm not sure if it's a realistic modelling of the weapon or there is some bug at play, but BetAB anti-runway bombs are unable to inflict any damage at all against targets with heavy armor. If memory doesn't fail me, those are any runway of 2000m or longer.

Against any target with medium armor or lower on the other hand, they work without any fuss. So they must always be targeted against short runways, taxiways and access points.


magi -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/20/2019 7:15:26 PM)

While I have not played this scenario through.. I have been scrutinizing it and giving it a considerable amount of thought .....
There are the two features for me.. I find bewildering and I believe you would have to give some explanation for ....

First... Why as the Soviets and WP have been so offensively aggressive on all other fronts.. brilliantly.. successfully creating shock and awe and confusion... and even as it appears red force has a partial corridor to the northern Italian airbase where the vast majority of NATO’s offensive and defense combat power is in the region... Yet they are taking no action with this favorable position..... Giving NATO reprieve and allowing them to plan and execute offense/defensive operations.....
There could be very real reasons why this is not happening .... however given how thorough and professional the Russians have been planning and prosecuting the opening moves of this global war.... I would need to know something to explain this ......

Second... On opening this scenario and studying the disposition of forces I mediately perceived.. there was going to be heavy air assaults from the east directed at the northern bases... where NATO and the Italians have concentrated the maturity of their combat air power....
It is always been my understanding that NATO and the Italian Air Force have contingency plans for operations in their theaters for multiple different situations that they periodically modify.... however here we are on day three of a global confrontation with the Soviet Union and their allies ... and all of NATO’s best fighters have strike munitions or are in the state of unreadiness.... while their powerful force of strikers are sitting empty on the ground....

Looking at so many of your scenarios over the past several years I will admit there are occasionally a few things that I ponder about.. that I now consider are possibly plot driven..... However in your book everything is so completely plausible that there’s even only one little thing that I would question...... So in this scenario I just cannot understand how we are in this situation ...

magi -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/20/2019 7:18:32 PM)


magi -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/20/2019 7:19:59 PM)


Gunner98 -> RE: New Scenario for testing - Mediterranean Fury 5, Serbia-right! (8/20/2019 8:04:15 PM)


Your two questions are related and interlinked.

The Soviets have left this front quiet for four main reasons:

1) Their allies are not prepared, in the rapid assaults of the first three days it has been largely Soviet force or proxies that are caught almost as flat-footed as NATO - Cuba, Libya, Syria, Iran, Sudan etc. The Hungarians and Romanians however are more deliberate in their approach and want (demand) mobilization to occur to a certain degree before they launch. Soviet forces are not nearly strong enough to conduct operations alone on this front.

2) The Soviets know what NATOs contingencies are likely to be, and they are concerned that the force balance on this front is precarious if NATO is allowed to built up according to their plans. So be leaving the pressure off in this area the vacuum of combat is drawing off all of the major reinforcements that could possibly be earmarked for Italy (the wing of 3x F-16 Sqns that has been drawn into Italy/Syria/Turkey for instance, USS Eisenhower is another example). No one can be strong everywhere, they are giving NATO a chance to weaken this front to strengthen others.

3) Serbia - not a big force but the Soviets want to bring them into the fold, and that takes a bit of diplomatic time.

4) UNPROFOR - I won't go into detail on this but there are cards in play that will show themselves in later books.

From a NATO perspective - they have thee fights on their hands just in the Med - Libya, Syria, Turkey. Why would they stick their hand in another hornets nest which has so far been quiet?

Anyway those are the thoughts that left this area calm for a few days.


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