RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (Full Version)

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Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/23/2019 12:30:09 PM)

WOAAAAA what a little big pearl hide appear in the mud of summer [&o]

I am not a big fan of cartoon style but this is enough realistic to dont hurt my "i want it feels and looks real" soul.

I like the editor, i like the decision of add the complex system for buildings, i like see on map commanders but i have some questions.

1-for me a tactical wargame needs show strenght of units in soldiers-crew members, i dont see this in the videos... whats the point behind an infantry squad strenght??? and vehicles have a lot of details but lack the crew part (in this area i am totally towards Steel Panthers model, you can neutralize a vehicle killing crew or simple disabling main armament apart different nations and units have different squad strenght in armament and n of soldiers).

2-even when i like a Steel panthers model with all WWII in one title without DLCs i dont see bad a DLC model to expand the missing nations in WWII (and the 3rd front).

3-related with point 2 i am curious if engine can be used to expand game to cover cold war... hipotetical WWIII in 40s and cover later options (50s-60s-70s-80s) AND have this in same base WWII game to create things like USA army from WWII VS Soviet post WWII army.

4-skirmish mode??? and if is present support nation X VS nation X and allies VS allies, axis VS axis???

5-ok, multiple levels buildings, thats nice, its a rare thing in tactical PC wargames but... we are going to see "rattenkrieg"???

6-is assault implemente in game??? i refer move your units into enemy hex and perform a melee combat... not force you need kill by fire enemy in an hex to enter.

I add this to my list, because a like what i see and well, why dont say it... i am bored of wait know something about "Vaporware Tigers" [>:]

I support to the non FaceBook to follow the game, maybe create a blog or similar.





MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/23/2019 5:08:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

All nations have equipment covering 39 to 45

I was mistaken though first release just Germans, Russians and USA


So no Poland, France, low countries, Finland, Italy, and/or UK? So until Germany attacks the Soviet Union (Russia) then the Germans just play with themselves? [X(][8|]


Squad Leader, easily one of the greatest wargames of all time, was released with Just Germans and Russians and Americans. It did just fine. It took several years to end up with British and French. It did just fine.

You'll survive waiting.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/23/2019 5:14:02 PM)

It should be noted, this game isn't even in Alpha let alone Beta to my knowledge.

And to my knowledge, it is the work of one person. And it's not their day job.

But he has been at this for some time, and is open to input.

Those that refuse to entertain using Facebook, will just have to settle for tid bits here and on other sites where his supporters are active.

I'm hoping to share what I glean, and he's receptive to that as well.

I'm confident his objective will be reached.

This game looks like it could potentially leave a lot of other designs in it's dust.




DownNOut -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/23/2019 5:21:49 PM)

The editor looks easy enough to use. I wonder what the largest map size will be




Zovs -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/23/2019 7:51:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Squad Leader, easily one of the greatest wargames of all time, was released with Just Germans and Russians and Americans. It did just fine. It took several years to end up with British and French. It did just fine.

You'll survive waiting.



Correction in 1985 Advanced Squad Leader (in my area it was actually Beyond Valor in 1985 (Germans and Russians only) and then we got the Rulebook in 1986) is and has been the ultimate and greatest tactical war game of all time. Hands Down!


I have been playing ASL since 1985 (and SL/COI/COD/GI prior to that) and prior to 2014 I was playing competitively (for fun, lol). When RB came out a buddy and I spent 2 years in Stalingrad playing both sides of the CG's it was a blast and hoot. Once you played that you have seen it all.


That is until Gung HO came out (now Rising Sun).






MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/23/2019 11:58:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrsWargamer

Squad Leader, easily one of the greatest wargames of all time, was released with Just Germans and Russians and Americans. It did just fine. It took several years to end up with British and French. It did just fine.

You'll survive waiting.



Correction in 1985 Advanced Squad Leader (in my area it was actually Beyond Valor in 1985 (Germans and Russians only) and then we got the Rulebook in 1986) is and has been the ultimate and greatest tactical war game of all time. Hands Down!


I have been playing ASL since 1985 (and SL/COI/COD/GI prior to that) and prior to 2014 I was playing competitively (for fun, lol). When RB came out a buddy and I spent 2 years in Stalingrad playing both sides of the CG's it was a blast and hoot. Once you played that you have seen it all.


That is until Gung HO came out (now Rising Sun).






:) You do realize there never would have been an ASL without a Squad Leader correct? :)

I was playing Squad Leader after only a paltry 7 pages of rules, on pages that were taken up by a lot of graphics too. I recall the first time I saw the ASL manual.
I also recall the groans "It's just a manual, where's the game?" Beyond Valour has gone to 3 printings. I wish though, a person could visit the MMP site, and casually be able to casually order the manual and BV. But it is frequently out of print. How they can manage to not have the two most inescapably most important portions of a large series of product routinely available escapes me.

ASL is an awesome product indeed. I've owned all of it. ALL OF IT.
It would not have been possible without Squad Leader coming first.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/24/2019 12:36:22 AM)

Getting back to Second Front though, it is likely clear to anyone able to see, the developer of the game is specifically and intentionally bring the actual Squad Leader/ASL experience to the screen. Not something in the spirit of the game, but, the actual game (just not the name for hopefully quite obvious reasons).

I have Tigers on the Hunt and the dlcs. VERY impressive attempt too. But the maps are basically flat and uninspiring. The buildings are a sea of single level structures and bland. And the game has been out a while now, and seems to be heading no where fast as far as scenery is concerned.

Second Front, even in this early a stage, is clearly intending to have terrain closer to what ASL is visually, with the addition of not being restricted to a strictly top down only view.

I've seen games use graphics that simply ain't ASL. Combat Mission is a great game. But it's a massively 3d experience and not even remotely similar to ASL beyond being WW2 and squad level.

I've seen games like Close Combat, and again, great game, but ASL is a turn based design, not real time.

Tigers on the Hunt tried too hard to completely replicate the turn sequence. To be honest, this was probably not a good idea. The board game had to go this route, it has no choice. It's a board game. With a modern computer's muscle, why not use it. Second Front does not appear interested in being limited by an obsession with recreating a pointless turn sequence. I'm all for that.




Zovs -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/24/2019 1:06:34 AM)

Ok I concur on SL, but still love ASL.

+1 Mrs. Wargamer on your comments on Second Front. Wonder why they called it that. Of course I am horrible at naming things. World War II Tactical Combat System or WW2TCS for short lol.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/24/2019 1:09:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Ok I concur on SL, but still love ASL.

+1 Mrs. Wargamer on your comments on Second Front. Wonder why they called it that. Of course I am horrible at naming things. World War II Tactical Combat System or WW2TCS for short lol.


Coming up with an original sounding WW2 tactical game title is likely as hard as coming up with an original romance novel title :)




Zovs -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/24/2019 1:12:08 AM)

Ill take your word on the latter.




Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/24/2019 9:18:13 AM)

Well, its the problem with promising wargames... usually they are an orchestraman project and they need more time... if finally are released... have a team helps divide job and made if you have few time you can combine it with the few time from other guys.

But i remember "Ultimate general" started the same and now looks like behind is a team that help time between releases and support be shorter and stronger... today is possible one guy release and support a game but teams are much better.

For me apart facebook if you want made your job visible you need an "off-facebook" and similar social media because in wargames a lot of info still comes from forums and similar... for example i know the game thanks to this forum and i made other guys know about the game using another forum... is not the first and sure not going to be the last wargame i know and i am going to help others know doing "sailing" in wargaming forums.

Game looks great, not only with a more modern graphics.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/26/2019 2:07:49 PM)

Correcting a detail error.

Second Front is not a one man operation done in their spare time.
That was a conclusion I arrived at incorrectly.




Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/27/2019 2:50:46 PM)

Nice, if there is a team behind release is more viable.

I find i Hexdraw web, in the "Unity Assets" for USA, German and Soviet vehicles coming in 2019... i dont know if this is release game or simple when the vehicle models are going to be avaliable.

I see very complete the list of vehicles... some are missing like T-28, T-35, IS-III, T-44 (maybe these 2 are more a bonus or extra), the amphibian T-37 - T-38 (here i dont know if this is covered in game) and the M2 halftracks and the M3 white used in recon units, i dont see in german models Schurtzen and looks like or there are 2 Pz-38 models or the Pz-35 is the same than Pz-38 and the M4A3E8 model is or missing or workg... i see the M4A1(76)W model BUT the simple eight is using the old suspension, you have new hull but not the new wheels.

Other good add could be made avaliable vehicles from one nation in other nations to play the "captured hardware" card when you create a scen because i see in german units something that looks like a soviet 57mm AT gun.

Out of this details i see here a serious first modern succesor of "Steel Panthers", maybe a little cartoon but in the enviroment, vehicles looks very serious well modeled... maybe add option to made them look more dusty or appear with camo [&o]

Soviet warhorses... i like see the brown colour
[image]http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Russian_Army.png[/image]

Germans
[image]http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/German_Army.png[/image]

If engine works well i have a new "i want it and i want it yesterday" title [:'(]


PD: the size of Tiger II and Jagdtiger is correct??? they look a little small [sm=dizzy.gif]




DownNOut -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 3:23:35 AM)

Another combat video has popped up on their site. I am still looking forward to seeing the scenario editor in action.




Michael T -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 3:50:55 AM)

Do they have a site? Or are you referring to a facebook page?




budd -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 4:13:50 AM)

YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOxChfy5XZjwf8nlbtF6_oQ/videos?disable_polymer=1&app=desktop




Michael T -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 4:34:34 AM)

Great, thanks budd [:)]




Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 9:08:14 AM)

I think these are all "official" sites

http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/?page_id=290

I really want know about game engine, for example i see to close the combat for infantry and i wait see armor VS AT combat.






Zovs -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 9:42:40 AM)

Here is the map editor

https://youtu.be/J0KObuvVDBY




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/29/2019 12:14:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

I think these are all "official" sites

http://www.hexdraw.com/Word/?page_id=290

I really want know about game engine, for example i see to close the combat for infantry and i wait see armor VS AT combat.



Just to clarify, yes, Joachim Bader is the man behind the game.




rico21 -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/30/2019 9:58:08 AM)

No Bader Band?




Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/30/2019 5:03:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rico21

No Bader Band?


Well better than a Vader Band... [8|]

I am still curious about combat and unit atributes... i really want see one thing missing in SP series, the ability to perform melee combat (i have in mind other front set in the east of east [:D])

And talking about infantry... we are only have germans-americans-soviets or we are going to see SS, Fallschirmjager, Volksturm, Airborne, Guards... same units but different atributes and stats.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/30/2019 6:17:42 PM)

Kinda early for me to comment on things I have not seen yet.

But I suspect you will be impressed about a lot of the design Hexagon. I think Close Combat is in the works. Stay tuned :)




Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/31/2019 6:48:52 PM)

Well, i admit Close Combat was much better than Steel Panthers in the art area... i dont find yet a wargame with the pretty and detailed maps you can find in CC and specially in CC mods (stalingrad mods offer to me the better maps to feel inside the rattenkrieg)... here i allways see 3D less detailed than 2D at least comparing with CC.

For me key of this game is going to be in combat area, assault-AT combat-casualty model, for what i see the armor area is more simple than in SP BUT looks like you can control better vehicles with turret facing (turret and hull facing separate) and well, at least mounted troops can fire something i dont remember see in wargames i play (i am out of RTS and ignore if is any modern RTS
with this feature).

But if is one really good thing is read the words Steamworks+map editor together... maybe this could be a title with 80-90s taste where a game expansion-DLC was to add extra content and not content you need from minute one... i know about SP expansion a lot of years later and was simple a serie of new scens and campaings, something you can find years ago in fan made webs.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/31/2019 6:57:47 PM)

Just to clarify, when I said Close Combat, I likely should have spelled it close combat all lower case. I was not referring to the game of that name. I was mentioning a combat mechanic in a game.




Hexagon -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (7/31/2019 7:02:58 PM)

O i see, i understand the game because new is "close" to [:'(]

Close Combat, the combat, allways was the weak point in the Steel Panthers serie, even win versions ignore it... well, they add reverse command for vehicles to retreat facing enemy you cant expect melee implemented [:D]

Could be great see melee and exotic things like human wave assault (double assault value half defensive value) or even Banzai charges (same as human wave BUT the assault side never retreat, fights to the last man) these things made you can open a lot game options... if you add the mechanic in a game with full mod ability you are going to see it where is needed.

Thanks for the info [&o]





Rosseau -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (8/1/2019 4:46:57 AM)

Some of the good old Squad Battles games had banzai charges - and yes, you are hopefully right on the modding potential.




MrsWargamer -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (8/1/2019 3:01:31 PM)

Sometimes computer games are trying to be board games, and sometimes board games are trying to be computer games.

And sometimes they do it really well, and sometimes not.

I have the board game of Civilization. It's a great game. A bit of a chore to set up (in comparison to say 7 Wonders), and a challenge to teach a non wargamer in under 15 minutes (about the attention span of a non-wargamer I have noticed).
But it feels like the computer game, just on a table.

We've all seen computer wargames trying to be a well known board game wargame. So try too hard, and some try too little. I think Close Combat and Combat Mission were well enough made games. But claiming they are that well known board game is a stretch. Tigers on the Hunt has gone through major hurdles to recreate that well known board game to the point it has tried to keep the exact same turn sequence in extreme detail. Something that was probably not vital.

World in Flames is a major challenge just to get a coherent complete board game with all the bells and whistles. Not sure it was ever a rational idea to make it a totally true computer version. I have the 3 hardcover manuals. Wow, what an experience. I can't see any other than a WiF fanatic buying this product, unless like me, you have so view common vices, spending that kind of cash on a product you might not really need was doable even if silly.

I've been watching videos for Second Front, and interacting with the development team and even being permitted to offer my own insights and ideas.
I'm pumped for this game.
I'm likely always going to prefer the original product of great fame. I actually prefer the original version of the famous game.
But sometimes we are stuck playing on a computer, because space, or time, or lack of FtF humans or all of the above simply refuses to give us a break.

My threshold for space, at this time, is about the size of a shelf 12 inches deep. about 10 inches high and about 40 inches long where I can safely store a game in progress where the maps are likely stacked on each other 3 boards high and two stacks. So that's a common 6 board game assuming boards are at most 9x12 shapes. I can shield that behind a cloth or something to help with dust and breeze.

There are not many wargames sold on boards any more (to my knowledge). But so what, you can always cut a mapsheet and make it mounted.

So I think the future of wargaming will involve machines unless we see a major shift in the preferences of the under 30 crowd.




Orm -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (8/1/2019 3:14:55 PM)

Well said.




Challerain -> RE: Second Front (that new in development tactical game) (8/1/2019 5:02:18 PM)

I'd have to disagree with the not many games sold on boards comment. Lots of top notch stuff being released by Compass, GMT, MMP among others.




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