Jets and more jets this game? (Full Version)

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greenmoray1 -> Jets and more jets this game? (6/6/2019 1:34:34 PM)

Hello...I like modern air games with jets. I'm not into simulation where I'm looking from the cockpit. The 2 best air wargames that I like so far are Grigbys WitW and TOAW 4. TOAW 4 I like best because in the modern scenarios you use jets like in Vietnam. WitW to me has the best micro management I've seen for using air war to command it. With this Command Naval Operation game it looks like you also command / direct air units and set things up and then the game performs the action as planned. That would have modern jets too. Now if I was looking for a game that kind of has the operational tools like WitW (or TOAW4 ) but with lots of chances to program jets to attack this game Naval Air Command would be the one or can you recommend some others? I like jets in war but not simulation (where I'm in the cockpit). Would this be the game to get for that. And lastly what's the learning curve here. And I thought about War in the Pacific Adm. Ed. ...the concept yes I like but to play it I don't know...same with this Naval operations game. I want jets though. Any advice. Thanks much

ultradave -> RE: Jets and more jets this game? (6/6/2019 4:56:12 PM)

You want jets? Jets are here in plenty. One thing to point out though is that managing the air war in WITW, while detailed to one extent, in managing the types and loads of planes at air bases and then set general missions (like ground support in a specific "box". C:MANO is at a more detailed level than that. It's still what you would call "Operational" in that you are controlling missions or directing aircraft, rather than flying them, but the level is a level or two lower than WITW style air combat.

The similarity is the Mission Editor in C:MANO, which allows you to set up patrols and attack missions. But where WITW sets an area to hit with ground attack and the game flies many missions to that area, C:MANO each mission is one ground attack mission at one target or extended target, or one CAP mission, or one air intercept, or one tanker support or EAW mission. WITW handles things at a more strategic level.

The learning curve can be steep, HOWEVER, there are a slew of great tutorials to get you going in bite sized chunks. The flexibility of what can be done in air combat/air missions is pretty much endless, and the database includes pretty much any platform from 1946-2019, and a few almost here or hypothetical platforms. So it's a bonanza for design your own, and while it comes with a bunch of standalone scenarios, the Community Scenario Pack that is a free download, has over 400 user made scenarios of every size, date and subject.

Bottom line, it is not a cockpit simulator. It's an "operational" simulation. You are in the position of overall command of either a task force, group of air assets, or for larger scenarios, a theater commander. The larger scenarios is where the Mission Editor really proves its value, as it greatly helps with not having to micromanage many assets.

Hope that helps. Also, almost forgot. Lots of help here - it's a very active forum, and the developers are the most responsive I've ever seen. There's a nice - new players start here section in the forum. Reading some of that material may give you a better idea than my quick summary. I have WITW and enjoy it and the air war section is a big improvement (IMO) over WITE, but while this has similarities, there are a lot of differences. If the complexity of WITW doesn't faze you I'd say you are probably ok with C:MANO.

greenmoray1 -> RE: Jets and more jets this game? (6/7/2019 2:34:21 PM)

Hey thanks for the reply. I forgot that this game has pause time button and is rts style. I prefer turn based games. It seems I'm left with War in the Pacific Admiral's edition .no jets but does have air operations and I hear the game is historically accurate but enormous in scope so we'll see.

SeaQueen -> RE: Jets and more jets this game? (6/7/2019 4:11:19 PM)

I haven't played WitW or TOAW so I'm not sure what tools they have available.

In C:MANO it's completely possible to build and run scenarios involving hundreds of aircraft and warships simultaneously. I just finished playing through a fairly substantial contemporary-style gorilla strike last night, involving ~7 squadrons of fighters, 2 squadrons of bombers, AWACS, RC-135, and some drones, if that's scoped-up enough for you. Typically I build a scenario with the idea that the player is looking at the air operations center perspective, so a lot of the focus for skillful play is on timing and positioning things smartly, as well as employing the technologies well. While you can micro-manage platforms, typically with mid-sized and larger scenarios, you don't. Instead it's about setting up engagement criteria and looking at how to employ platforms and weapons systems in combination against very complex target sets which might require a variety of effects (e.g. five aimpoints require penetrating ordinance, 3 are area targets, 2 radars, etc.).

The learning curve can be a little steep. C:MANO is death-by-options. My advice has typically been to start with small scenarios involving a few platforms (e.g. An AWACS, a few 4-ships of F-15Cs v some Su-27s and a GCI radar or Mainstay) which you're interested in, figure out how to make them work the way you want them to, and over time you start making things more elaborate. After you've figured out that, use that scenario as a template and add in an airfield and some Su-24s to attack it. Next add in some ballistic missiles and cruise missiles, and time things to arrive when you want them to. Etc. etc. With each successive iteration you'll be forced to explore new options (e.g. tankers) and eventually work your way up to LUA scripting for even more levels of sophistication.

gmsitton -> RE: Jets and more jets this game? (9/30/2019 7:42:49 PM)


ORIGINAL: greenmoray1

Hey thanks for the reply. I forgot that this game has pause time button and is rts style. I prefer turn based games. It seems I'm left with War in the Pacific Admiral's edition .no jets but does have air operations and I hear the game is historically accurate but enormous in scope so we'll see.

WitP:AE is an outstanding game, but the full campaign requires months of time investment. I'm not sure the air war part of the simulation has the granularity you are looking for.

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