RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/21/2019 4:19:22 AM)

moment of zen:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/050C770809484A9980B0BB6D1F91B3C6.jpg[/image]



StuccoFresco -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/21/2019 8:06:01 AM)

Are the counterattacks only in the Moscow region?



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/21/2019 2:26:08 PM)

Here's what's going on in the far south right now. I'm using the 11th Army to try to push over Sevastopol and the Rumanians to push through the Kerch Straits and it's slow going at both battle sites. The Soviets are defending with fairly stout units and they have naval support and there's some lethal CD guns within range so the fighting is savage and bloody. So far Elmer has parked his ships in a port so I've been doing port attacks and mostly losing Ju-87B's for no return. It's starting to be frustrating not being able to leave a mark on any of the Soviet ships. There are Soviet supply sources just offshore so I can't starve them out with a seige. Right now I'm trying to take apart their defenses a piece at a time so I can concentrate the arty support. I'm making some slow progress. I suppose there's no big hurry. I have until 04Dec41 for the deadline to activate the Bulgarians.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/DCDCB274A17741BEB3BB5F1F8AAB928C.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/23/2019 10:59:28 PM)

Here's a T28 view of the Rostov area right now. I've defeated some Soviet defenders and have crossed the river and have units heading into Soviet territory converting the roads and rails to get some supply flowing into the areas I'll be moving into soon. The supply level is really low in this area since the railhead is so far away. Most of the progress I've been making is in this area.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/6097666831404C86B148DB2BCE70E936.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/23/2019 11:03:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco
Are the counterattacks only in the Moscow region?
Not at all. The Soviets act like their strategic bias got switched to "attack" instead of "defend" and the attacks are happening all over the map. They have made several breakthroughs in my front lines but so far I've been able to plug them. There's going to come a time when I won't be able to plug it and I'll have to pull everybody back toward Germany, probably during the Soviet Winter Offensive. We'll see.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/24/2019 9:57:51 AM)

02:51 local...This is the T29 view of Leningrad looking south. I'm terribly outnumbered and it's only because of the natural defensive features of the terrain that I'm able to hold back the majority of the Soviets. They have broken through my lines in several places during their most recent turn and I now have to find the assets to plug the holes. Several Soviet units evaporated during attacks so they are giving it the old college try. The Soviet stacks are getting taller and there's a LOT more of them at the front lines so I'm pretty sure the advance has come to a halt along most of the front lines. Progress is still being made in the south but the supply levels down there are getting too low to operate any longer. My railheads aren't anywhere close to the places I need them except in the north. The railhead up there is just south of Leningrad heading east.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/EF5B78272CEE46CEA17F2D6F0A1F6572.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/24/2019 10:22:17 AM)

03:18 local This is what's going on in front of Moscow looking south. The front is very fluid here and the Soviets have blasted a hole in my front lines and I'm going to have major difficulties getting it plugged again. It's a huge hole and there are many Soviet units to contain. The Soviets are attacking with a vengence all over the map.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/55F52F3D90994CAC95408E9FD255C569.jpg[/image]



StuccoFresco -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/24/2019 10:40:26 AM)

You are just about to close the Life Road on the Ladoga, though. That would isolate Leningrad, right? Or is there a Soviet supply point in the city?



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/24/2019 1:20:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StuccoFresco
You are just about to close the Life Road on the Ladoga, though. That would isolate Leningrad, right? Or is there a Soviet supply point in the city?
I actually got a unit adjacent to the Life Road and it cut the supply to the city. Since then the Soviets have moved some units up there to reestablish the flow of supply. I'll have to cut the road again. The RR arty is pulverizing the Soviet defenders in the city hex so I should have the city soon.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/25/2019 5:55:42 AM)

Have I mentioned that it's T29 now? Here's the current Rostov area right now. I'm getting across the river and spreading out to convert the roads and rails to help the flow of supply which is really low. Single digits. I may have to halt everybody to wait for better supply. The railhead is way way to the west and almost useless.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/619D605180BB46BEAE8F630D683995A5.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/25/2019 9:45:24 AM)

What have you done to change the map view, looks like you switched something over around page 3 ?

The rail lines are showing up more clearly, I find it hard to spot damaged rail with the default map.
Also think I prefer your terrain, easier to see what is there.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/25/2019 1:36:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
What have you done to change the map view, looks like you switched something over around page 3 ?

The rail lines are showing up more clearly, I find it hard to spot damaged rail with the default map.
Also think I prefer your terrain, easier to see what is there.

I'm using the Telu IV Map Mod which can be found here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4442672

Also, I can't remember where I got the damaged rail tiles but I've zipped them up and
moved them to a file server so you can download them from this link:

http://www.filedropper.com/htilesdamagedrailroaddamagedbridge




tyronec -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (9/26/2019 6:28:39 PM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
What have you done to change the map view, looks like you switched something over around page 3 ?

The rail lines are showing up more clearly, I find it hard to spot damaged rail with the default map.
Also think I prefer your terrain, easier to see what is there.

I'm using the Telu IV Map Mod which can be found here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4442672

Also, I can't remember where I got the damaged rail tiles but I've zipped them up and
moved them to a file server so you can download them from this link:

http://www.filedropper.com/htilesdamagedrailroaddamagedbridge

Thanks.
Couldn't get it to work in the Override folder so stuck them into the Graphics folder and that did the job.
So much easier to read the map.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/1/2019 1:46:51 PM)

I'm inching closer to Stalingrad. It's going to take me about a week or so to fight my way there.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/64E0D64B74364EA5894323258FA14D93.jpg[/image]



danprezell -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 12:24:31 AM)

I dig your AARs Larry, keep them up. Being close to the end of your Leningrad operation, would you say that taking out the Soviet Fleet out is a priority? Is it worth the loss of the Stukas? And are the Stukas the only viable attack against them? I am approaching the city in my campaign and my first attack against the fleet with one Stuka air group was completely ineffective.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 3:01:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: danprezell
I dig your AARs Larry, keep them up. Being close to the end of your Leningrad operation, would you say that taking out the Soviet Fleet out is a priority? Is it worth the loss of the Stukas? And are the Stukas the only viable attack against them? I am approaching the city in my campaign and my first attack against the fleet with one Stuka air group was completely ineffective.
Thanks for your kind words. And yes the Soviet Fleet is a problem. I agree that the Stuka's performance is less than stellar. I'm wondering what kind of problem they would be if I just ignored the Soviet ships entirely. I hesitate to attack the ships again because of the massive losses that would result. I don't have very many Axis ships so I'm not keen to have some sea battles. Air attacks are expensive so I'm guessing that there's no good answer for the Soviet fleet. I've wondered how I could use my RR arty on the ships themselves but so far they haven't come into range. Probably just lose my RR arty attempting it. I'm going to ignore them for now. Good luck on your game.



danprezell -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 3:10:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: danprezell
I dig your AARs Larry, keep them up. Being close to the end of your Leningrad operation, would you say that taking out the Soviet Fleet out is a priority? Is it worth the loss of the Stukas? And are the Stukas the only viable attack against them? I am approaching the city in my campaign and my first attack against the fleet with one Stuka air group was completely ineffective.
Thanks for your kind words. And yes the Soviet Fleet is a problem. I agree that the Stuka's performance is less than stellar. I'm wondering what kind of problem they would be if I just ignored the Soviet ships entirely. I hesitate to attack the ships again because of the massive losses that would result. I don't have very many Axis ships so I'm not keen to have some sea battles. Air attacks are expensive so I'm guessing that there's no good answer for the Soviet fleet. I've wondered how I could use my RR arty on the ships themselves but so far they haven't come into range. Probably just lose my RR arty attempting it. I'm going to ignore them for now. Good luck on your game.

The Soviet fleet units are within range of my 280mm 7hex range rail gun and it will not let me engage even though the equipment states having anti-shipping capability. Unless the ships were docked a railroad gun should not have much chance at hitting a ship at sea unless, maybe, it was direct fire. So I get that the game won't allow it. Hopefully they'll go to port soon.



Zovs -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 8:03:51 AM)

Stukas have an anti shipping value if 240 I believe and one of the best against naval (at least in TR 1942-45), so it just depends on the NAD value then.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 10:04:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Stukas have an anti shipping value if 240 I believe and one of the best against naval (at least in TR 1942-45), so it just depends on the NAD value then.
These Stuka's have been modified by the scenario designer to be regular attack aircraft instead of ship killers. That's why the performance against ships has been less than stellar. Now, as it is, they are little more than recon aircraft. It's too bad too because this scenario is otherwise a great one. I suppose I need to mod the scenario to make the Stuka's ship killers and do a restart. Hey that's a good idea. I'll get busy and do just that.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B1578D668077454298992D79AED689F2.jpg[/image]



Zovs -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 12:12:45 PM)

Thanks Larry.

Just checked the defaults and both the Ju-87 (early and late) have an anti-shipping value of 120.

I know in The Their Reich 1942-1945 the values is 240.



Edwire -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 1:46:40 PM)

Soviet Fleet is the one thing that I was never able to sink in this scenario. In one of my plays, I set one JU-87 to "Sea Interdiction" and after many interdiction strikes, I got lucky, sinking a Soviet Black Fleet Battleship, but that's all. Soviet Baltic Fleet is still floating, despite I've captured Leningrad.

Just an Idea, perhaps there should be an event where Soviet mothball Baltic Fleet, giving several Marine Division if Axis is within 1 hex of Leningrad? Don't think they will do nothing if Leningrad is in immediate threat of being captured.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Thanks Larry.

Just checked the defaults and both the Ju-87 (early and late) have an anti-shipping value of 120.

I know in The Their Reich 1942-1945 the values is 240.


I think the Third Reich 1942-1945 also has the same value of 120



danprezell -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/3/2019 8:51:40 PM)

Ugh, their battleships just wrecked one of my full strength infantry divisions. Soviet Fleet delenda est. I don't care how many stukas have to die.



700851McCall -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/4/2019 9:32:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: danprezell

I dig your AARs Larry, keep them up. Being close to the end of your Leningrad operation, would you say that taking out the Soviet Fleet out is a priority? Is it worth the loss of the Stukas? And are the Stukas the only viable attack against them? I am approaching the city in my campaign and my first attack against the fleet with one Stuka air group was completely ineffective.


Don't attempt an attack while they are in port. Wait for them to put to sea and wait until they are under clear skies (use the weather view toggle to check). When they are, then send in your Stukas. Will take a couple of missions but they will sink them pretty easily. Once the battleships and heavy cruisers are gone there's no longer a threat and your naval task force can sail in (after the coastal defences are destroyed) and finish the destroyers off at 4 hex range so they can't even fire back.

Wish I had time to have another go at this scenario, it's great.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/4/2019 1:48:20 PM)

I tried to install the TOAW v.5.2 Database but that gave both sides some yr2000 equipment so I dropped back to the original EQP file and then fixed the Stuka types so that they have a decent anti-ship value ( 120 ). I've zipped up the scenario and it's GraphicsOverride folder and attached it here below. This is the scenario I'm playtesting in this AAR.



Zovs -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/4/2019 3:47:04 PM)

Thanks Larry for the updated.

Hopefully Steve will fix the Stuka's in a patch, no idea what they nerfed them all things considered, you can always tweak the NAD and the AAA lethality instead.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/4/2019 3:51:28 PM)

quote:

you can always tweak the NAD and the AAA lethality instead.

Yeah, but if you did that then all the ships would be underperformers
compared to real life. I would rather they all were accurate representations
and the Stuka's were wrong. But it was trivial to compare the TOAW v.5.2 Stuka
with the Stuka that Steve's EQP file had and change them to the better type.
Took less than a minute. I then had to run it through the editor to associate
the new EQP file to the scenario but that too was easy. I'm halfway through
my new turn 1.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/11/2019 8:28:19 PM)

It's 13July41 ( T7 ) and I've disposed Minsk and I'm getting units across the river into the Soviet backfield south of Orsha. The supply level is decreasing quickly now that we're so far east of the railhead. The relative AS values are Axis 50 against a Soviet 6 which is great so far. I've got my fighters set on three-dots which is helping clear the skies of Soviet aircraft. The Finns have started pushing south and the Rumanians are clearing out the Bessarabia and there's still rapid progress in the south. Supply levels are starting to be a real problem.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D1BB4A1BEF8142FD96E485AC6CFBF869.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/13/2019 2:03:46 PM)

Here's what's going on in the north near Narva. The Axis units are busy clearing out the peninsula and pushing toward the bottleneck. The supply level at the face of the advance is between 10 and 12 per hex and that's still enough to sustain the push. The air war is still hot and Soviet planes are falling out of the sky. I've used my Stuka's to sink all the Soviet naval units so now I'm using them for combat support. The railhead is just NE of Riga and has made no progress for several turns now. I'm going to garrison all the captured ports so that there will be no Soviet adventurism. I have plans to clear out what I can of the smaller islands just off the west coast near Virtsu. I have no air cap and can't use the airborne units via air any longer. My rail cap is still inadequate for anything useful. Several of my HQ units have not received their arty yet and can lend no support.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2A3A1605ED7C4135899EF3A2CFB93FAA.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/13/2019 8:46:32 PM)

Here's what's going on near Kiev right now. I'm slowly pushing the Soviets toward the city of Kiev and I've seen several Soviet units already who have escaped to the east side of the river. I need to wait until I've got units blocking the route over the river so I can kill more Soviet units. Besides I don't need heavy losses trying to force the Soviets through the bottleneck. I've been pounding the Soviets from the air to accellerate the take down.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/37FF0C533A524CCD8BE3DFB2E0A6D4A7.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (10/14/2019 3:49:28 PM)

Here's what's going on near Smolensk right now. I've forced the river crossing at Orsha and I'm getting units into the Soviet backfield and they have responded with a small horde of units to defend and my footprint on the east side of the river is growing slowly. Supply on the east side of the river is very low and the railhead is hardly leaving the Minsk area so progress is slow.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/34D82BFF6D87404B85A17837DEB500F6.jpg[/image]



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