RE: Witness to World War 2. (Full Version)

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rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:42:00 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Ground Strike (1/3).

[image]local://upfiles/31901/A3E57C65A67C41AA96280C0791539CE4.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:42:27 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Ground Strike (2/3).

[image]local://upfiles/31901/B82DCB80629F4062BBBC71BA4618F34A.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:42:49 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Ground Strike (3/3).

[image]local://upfiles/31901/A2EBA5C45C4C44759AE1EBB101DE8B36.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:43:39 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Land Combat (1/5). US Airborne Army Drop.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/3164154AEA1F4660BFAB72AA22D3E4AE.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:44:07 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Land Combat (2/5). Sapporo, Japan.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/FF2CFAC59B1F4B8DA6F2E04D21421F42.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:44:33 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Land Combat (3/5).

[image]local://upfiles/31901/56A982A4ACB44892A8C883F49B0928A5.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:44:56 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Land Combat (4/5).

[image]local://upfiles/31901/DDE3339248BC474C87189941248F7605.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:45:22 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. Land Combat (5/5).

[image]local://upfiles/31901/54D524F42B9A47789C73EC1E0B8FDAB2.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:45:50 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

Western Allies. PTO. HQ Reorg.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/302F70A32BF04BEA9619974E8A3B593A.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:46:27 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Allied #9.

End of Turn Check.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/5E26C2C1EA914C2D94716FF778F3FE03.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/1/2019 10:48:04 PM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Axis #11.

Weather. Fine across the map. Bad news for Japan. The good news is that there's 70% chance of the turn ending after Japan's impulse.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/AC6E1389146141F994A4368C1AA93B37.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 1:24:39 AM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Axis #11.

Japan. End of Impulse.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/1C6D55A0DF5F4AE0A59CFDCDF7DE88AB.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 1:25:19 AM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. Axis #11.

Japan. End of Turn. Japan catches a break, I guess ... turn ends without the allies seeing the benefit of the fine weather.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/11EC45AFC94D4B5281774E97B86BEB89.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 1:25:51 AM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. End of Turn.

Partisans.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/43CB7BB60AE9486A9D63D3E3142A560C.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 1:26:15 AM)

Turn 38. Nov/Dec 1945. End of Turn.

Destroyed.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/80C9C7CD43584EF2985C6F2EAE7450F6.jpg[/image]




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 2:45:17 AM)

The War is Over. Senior Japanese government officials and military leaders have agreed to unconditional surrender with one condition (which really isn't unconditional). That condition is that Japan gets to keep her emperor. The allied powers agree to this condition in some weird way that still technically preserves Japan's unconditional surrender.

This is my stopping point. Below are the final victory totals. I want to thank everyone who's followed and/or commented on this game or my game play. I open this AAR to anyone who wishes to provide feedback, or comment on anything generally related.

I hope those of you that followed had 1/10th of the fun that I had playing the game and posting this AAR.

My reason for stopping is captured in https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4682172

The last allied impulse took me 2 hours and 45 minutes to play and I'd guess that a good 1 hour and 30 minutes of that time was waiting on MWiF. It got to the point that I dreaded picking up an HQ or any other unit that provoked MWiF to recalculate supply. It was taking somewhere between 3 to 5 minutes to pick and move these units. Even selecting an HQ for HQ support, in which case the HQ was already committed to the land combat, provoked a supply recalculation taking 2 to 3 minutes.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/3BF68A41394849318E7A9AEA2506A044.jpg[/image]




cfinch -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 1:55:08 PM)

10(?) years and still so many issues it seems, i wonder if the code traces every possible path vs stopping once any path is found. Seems odd that it takes longer once, more or less, every hex, port and supply source in europe is owned by the allies


and they are working on AI instead of the 2-map scenarios ;-(

i really would like the 2 mappers, as the whole enchilada is too much for me and the scenarios are "too little", goldielocks needs her 'just right' scenario ;-)




Cad908 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 4:02:26 PM)

What a tremendous accomplishment. I enjoyed following along with you on your journey, and with nearly 37,000 hits, many others did also.

Thank you. [&o][&o]

-Rob




rkr1958 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 4:14:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cfinch

10(?) years and still so many issues it seems, i wonder if the code traces every possible path vs stopping once any path is found. Seems odd that it takes longer once, more or less, every hex, port and supply source in europe is owned by the allies


and they are working on AI instead of the 2-map scenarios ;-(

i really would like the 2 mappers, as the whole enchilada is too much for me and the scenarios are "too little", goldielocks needs her 'just right' scenario ;-)
A feature I'd like to have, which I know is a "Pie in the Sky" wish, is an off/on supply calculation switch that's easily accessible. With such a switch I'd turn it off for most of my movement (especially late game as in this situation). I would flip it back on occasionally during movement especially after moving my HQ's or moving/losing CP's/TRS in sea areas. Effectively, I would try to limit the supply (re)calculation to 3 to 4 times (i.e., 5 to 10-minutes total). Again, a Pie in the Sky feature that would really be nice to have and low one to play these types of games out to the bitter/fun end. With such a switch no more picking up an HQ unit, waiting 3 to 4-minutes, placing (i.e., moving, railing, or selecting for HQ support) the HQ unit and then waiting for 3 to 4-minutes more. To say the least that was maddening. This also happen when selecting and moving units in enemy territory not yet conquered (e.g., Turkey until recently, Japan).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

What a tremendous accomplishment. I enjoyed following along with you on your journey, and with nearly 37,000 hits, many others did also.

Thank you. [&o][&o]

-Rob
Thank you. [:)]




cfinch -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/2/2019 4:32:50 PM)

quote:

e types of games out to the bitter/fun end. With such a switch no more picking up an HQ unit, waiting 3 to 4-minutes, placing (i.e., moving, railing


congrats on finishing (more or less) as well, i should have added that first ;p

I forget if WiF allows chainning HQ from a port to a rail and then rail onwards but this situation would complicate matters

I also think they likely did not code supply status of "ports" such that a US unit traces to a port and then back to supply source vs <list of ports that can provide US Supply, UK, FR, ...> trace to one? youre in supply...) it would be faster as you would only recalculate all ports after a sea zone "change of state" and this eliminates a good deal of overseas checking
Overland checks may still be time consuming but i'm not sure why since there are no enemies to go around, is it because RU cann't trace via UK/US/FR spaces or some such?




Elessar2 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/7/2019 1:51:38 AM)

No post-mortems? [&:]

I find how quickly the Eastern Front deteriorated for the Germans utterly fascinating.




lecrop -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/7/2019 5:12:32 PM)

Amazing AAR of an amazing wargame, thanks for sharing.




Orm -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/7/2019 5:49:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. End of Turn.

Victory Totals.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/22C0E7C7F9B4430DB4357FD15E864ACB.jpg[/image]

If the game had ended after August '45, can we declare a winner?




Centuur -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/8/2019 10:35:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Turn 36. Jul/Aug 1945. End of Turn.

Victory Totals.

[image]local://upfiles/31901/22C0E7C7F9B4430DB4357FD15E864ACB.jpg[/image]

If the game had ended after August '45, can we declare a winner?


These are the historical objectives:

Nat. China ~ 1,
Commonwealth ~ 21,
France ~ 5,
Germany ~ 1,
Italy ~ 0,
Japan ~ 9,
USA ~ 15,
USSR (incl. Communist China) ~ 15.

So the USSR is the winner of this game...




TeaLeaf -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/8/2019 11:48:00 AM)

Just for my understanding of bidding, so please correct me if I'm wrong!
There can be no winner of this game since there hasn't been any bidding at start?

If the MP's historical totals are taken as their modified bids for this game, then scoring looks like:
1. Allied Player = 57 (total allied objectives) - 57 (total modified allied bids) = 0
2. Axis player = 9 (total axis objectives) - 10 (total modified axis bids) = -1.

So the Allied player would have won with his higher score (yes, 0 > -1 [;)]).

If this game had had 6 players (again with historical modifier), then scoring would have been different, looking like:
1. CW 23-21 = 2.
2. Germany 2-1 = 1.
3. Italy 1-0 = 1.
4. USSR + Fr. (17+4) - (15+5) = -1.
5. USA + Nat. China (12+1)-(15+1) = -3.
6. Japan 6-9 = -3.

But ofc. the above scoring is moot in this game, since no1 actually placed a bid and we don't know how Ronnie would have bid against himself [;)].




Orm -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/8/2019 12:41:31 PM)

Thank you.

For games with no bidding I think that using the historical objectives is fair. And I do not mind using the objectives listed above for determining the winner. But somehow that list doesn't feel quite historical. Historically, Germany should be conquered in the May '45 turn so how can Germany control one objective?




TeaLeaf -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/8/2019 2:27:24 PM)

Because Germany 'controls' Stockholm.

At the end of the game if an objective isn't controlled by a major power, its victory point goes to the MP with the closest capital.
But IDK if it's right to award this to a MP with a conquered capital...




composer99 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/8/2019 4:07:20 PM)

I would not use the historical objectives to determine the winner. MWiF certainly doesn't.

The RAW7 scenario booklet, in the Bidding subsection of 24.1.2, states:
quote:

Each player’s modified bid is calculated at game end, and equals their bid plus their currently controlled major power’s (which may change during the game - see 13.7.5) expected total. This table shows the expected totals of objectives for each major power at the end of Jul/Aug 1945:

Major Power 4-Map
China, Nat. 2
CW 19
France 1
Germany 10
Italy 0
Japan 5
USA 17
USSR & ComCh 13


(I have not included the expected objective totals for the 2-map campaigns.)

That is, the game does not expect the war to end with major powers occupying their historical objective totals. Not only should Germany not be conquered by July/August 1945, it should still be holding on to a respectable amount of territory outside the Reich.

In a six-player game, we get the following victory totals for this game. This assumes everyone's bid is 0.
Germany -8
Italy 1
Japan 1

CW 4
USA/NatCh -6 (-5, -1 more for aligning both Brazil & Mexico)
USSR/Fr/ComCh 7

Now, the rules for liberation state, "For the remainder of the game, the liberating major power controls the liberated major power for all purposes", which I take to mean includes counting its objectives. Since the USA liberated France, we would take the French objectives away from USSR and give them to USA, which changes their totals to -3 for USA &c. and 4 for USSR.

So either USSR wins, or USSR and CW tie.




TeaLeaf -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/8/2019 7:13:35 PM)

My personal preference:
A solitaire game doesn't have bidding, so for me the winner is very subject to feeling. Major Powers Without their capital certainly do not qualify in my book [;)].

But if a MP must be chosen as winner, I think both the historical totals as modified bid and the campaign modifiers alone (assuming a bid for every MP) could be helpful. I could argue for both, but still subjective I think.




composer99 -> RE: Witness to World War 2. (9/9/2019 3:30:56 AM)

As a post-mortem, I'd be inclined to think the game turned out the way it did because of three factors:

(1) The Japanese lost badly because they waited too long to turn to the Pacific. Without looking back over 120 pages of AAR, I'm not quite sure if there was any specific turning point, but I definitely remember thinking they let that slide for far too long. In the end, Japan only had a positive objective count because the US and CW decided to invade Japan proper with a view to conquering it, instead of either going only for Tokyo or going for objectives (and Japan was only 1 objective over their expected amount at the end of the 4-map game, so a reasonable effort would likely have got the Allies two to four other objectives).

(2) The Germans did really well in the USSR, up until some time in 1943, because the USSR really flubbed its defence in 1941. Between the Commonwealth landing in Sardinia and Sicily in 1941, and the Germans building at least a respectable number of subs (again, if memory serves), Germany wasn't super-focused on fighting the USSR. Especially since they left the start of Barbarossa late - the start of July/August, I think? So the circumstances favoured the USSR, but they still managed to end up getting pushed back super deep into the USSR, Turkey aligned, and so on.

(3) Once the USSR was able to turn the corner in 1943 up in Siberia, the Germans waited far too long to begin withdrawing from Persia and the Caucasus, the end result being that their forces there got trapped and became the world's largest PoW camp. This more than anything else set the stage for the disaster that befell Germany.




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