New to this game.. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series



Message


therealevan -> New to this game.. (12/12/2018 6:34:45 PM)

But I am absolutely loving it. Can't believe I just now am getting around to play it.

Thanks to fellow steam user, Hobotango for being a wealth of knowledge and easy-given advice. He's made the introduction doable!

I have been watching a variety of youtube play throughs, reading through the massive updated manual and have also been poking around the forums.

I'm just onto my second turn as Germany and have already found a plethora of mistakes (possibly even blunders) that I've made.

1) In my first turn as I didn't quite understand how bombing airfields worked I managed to only destroy about 2,500 soviet airplanes, this is on the low side right? I feel that I should have been able to bomb a lot more.

2) Some of my panzer units are way ahead of my infantry and a few are low on fuel. It looks like all the rail lines have a red color on the hex, does this mean they are the wrong gauge? Or they're damage? At any rate, I have construction battalions on some of them, but it seems like a lot of micromanagement to get them all repaired. Again I'm not even sure if this is what im supposed to do (just assuming it is?).

3) How import is it to use bombers for attacking ground units? There were a few areas that the soviets had higher level fortresses that I used some bombing runs on, is this an effective use?

4) Is it a good idea to continuously move up airfields as I gain more ground and expand deeper into russia?

That's all for now! Looking forward to some MP games in the future :)




AlexSF -> RE: New to this game.. (12/12/2018 6:56:38 PM)

hey welcome. You should go to the war room section of this forum and read about Germans first turn.
About your second point the rails are red if not converted by your RR repairs units. You have 3 or 4 of them, use them to convert your main railroads. Soviet (and still Russian today) rails are of a different width to Western European ones, that's why you have to convert them as you advance deeper in Mother Russia...




xhoel -> RE: New to this game.. (12/12/2018 7:46:31 PM)

Hello and welcome to the forums. The game can be quite daunting and it will take a long time to master, but you should stick to the basics right now. In my opinion the best way to learn is by playing against the AI and also by reading AARs. There are some really good ones in the forums. Be sure to check the War Room and especiall the library of WitE resources: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4317692

1) Yes the numbers is a bit on the lowside. If you want to get better at airfield bombing check this AAR: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4426690&mpage=2&key=

2) It is normal that by turn 3 panzers are depleted of fuel. What you should do is pull some of the panzer corps back so they can build up their stocks and get their MP numbers up. Leave some panzer corps forward to hold the gains you made, let the infantry catch up to them.

Use the FBDs to repair the main lines. Construction battalions repair automatically and you have no control over them. Supply is the key to your advance. Have a clear vision in mind about which rail lines need to be repaired by your FBDs.

3) In my opinion it can make the difference between winning or losing a battle. You don't have to attack every hex, try to concentrate the air strikes where you want them. Attacking a unit will increase the number of disrupted men/squads which means they are not available to defend and do not contribute to the CV. Use these to your advantage.

4) Yes it is good to do so otherwise you won't be able to use the air force effectively. Telemecus has made a great guide about how you should move the airbases forward. It is in this AAR if I'm not mistaken: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4250683&mpage=1&key=

The rule of thumb is that you should never move airbases when they have aircraft on them as this increases fatigue and the numbers of miles flown.

With that being said, welcome to the forums once again and see you on the battlefield!

Best regards,
Xhoel




Zug -> RE: New to this game.. (12/12/2018 7:58:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: therealevan


I'm just onto my second turn as Germany and have already found a plethora of mistakes (possibly even blunders) that I've made.



Which scenario? Grand Campaign? Must be if you destroyed so many planes I imagine.

quote:

1) In my first turn as I didn't quite understand how bombing airfields worked I managed to only destroy about 2,500 soviet airplanes, this is on the low side right? I feel that I should have been able to bomb a lot more.


Yes, it is. I've seen some crazy numbers quoted on this board. In my first grand campaign I got 4,000 first turn. Good players that know what to do get 5,000 and more. I've seen much higher numbers, but I do not know how patches and revisions may have affected the possible haul here.

quote:

Some of my panzer units are way ahead of my infantry....


I would bet this is the first thing most players wonder. Here are three simple things you can do to help alleviate the situation.

1. Use your FBD units to repair specific rail lines that will support your axes of advance. Which lines you choose, and the routes they take are quite important. In the Baltic Zone there is a repair 'discount' in the first couple of months, due to a similar gauge in this region (so each repair is one point versus three and more progress can be made). As a result, I tend to do two Baltic rails, one to Pskov and then on to Leningrad and the other a bit south through Polotsk, Vitebsk and on to Smolensk. This route ends up in the same place that a route from Brest to Smolensk would, but gets there much faster.

And then I rail the 'Brest' FBD to Rumania and end up with two down in the AGS sector (plus the Rumanian one). One goes toward Kiev and on to Kursk/Voronezh and the other to Dnepro and on to Stalino/Rostov There are several good threads here, this one's helpful to get some ideas. WitE is a complex games, with many important or critical facets. But surely how you repair your rails is one of the most crucial to the success of your campaign.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3918771

2. Use HQBUs. This mechanic will resupply your panzer corps and allow them to keep the operational pace high. You're limited by the admin points, so you have to use this judiciously. But this is one of the most useful tools an Axis commander has at his disposal.

3. Hold 'em back a bit. It's tempting to run the tanks as far as they'll go. The gains look impressive, and when 2nd Panzer is sitting on the Dnepr at the end of turn two it's mighty impressive. However, they'll almost certainly be out of fuel and too far to get more and therefore are useless for turn three.

By holding your panzer corps back a bit each turn, and not running them to the limit, you not only carry over some of the stuff they already have, but because they are a little closer to the railheads, they will get some resupply. Added together, it allows much bigger gains over the course of several turns than if you had run to the limit early on.


quote:

How import is it to use bombers for attacking ground units? There were a few areas that the soviets had higher level fortresses that I used some bombing runs on, is this an effective use?


Yes, and there is a disruption factor that these strikes will inflict, that can cause fewer enemy to man their posts in any follow up attacks by ground troops. Personally I find this the main reason to do this as opposed to causing casualties. In my case I use these strikes on any particularly tough strongpoint, but the vast majority of the sorties flown in my campaigns are ground support. But good use of these air strikes can make the difference in winning battles and advancing.

quote:

Is it a good idea to continuously move up airfields as I gain more ground and expand deeper into russia?


Yes, it is necessary to keep these aircraft in range. Stukas for example have a range of just 11 hexes I believe, so they have to keep moving with the ground forces if you want to use them tactically. The ideal way to do it is to move empty bases by transferring squadrons and thereby saving lots of trucks. But I just drive the base with the aircraft 'on them' and waste the trucks :) I'm not opposed to micro, but that's a step too far.






Neogodhobo -> RE: New to this game.. (12/12/2018 8:50:05 PM)

Welcome to the forum Evan ! (its me, hobotango) Glad you are enjoying yourself and you will find that people on here are lot more knowledgeable than me :)




thedoctorking -> RE: New to this game.. (12/12/2018 9:00:53 PM)

Welcome! We have a teaching game up on the AAR forum: Connect4. The AAR from both sides describes game mechanics that both sides need to know. Also the Ewald von Kleist "library of WitE Resources" thread on the War Room section of this forum has a bunch of articles and useful tools that players have devised to help you learn the details of good play. Good luck!




therealevan -> RE: New to this game.. (12/13/2018 4:26:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Hello and welcome to the forums. The game can be quite daunting and it will take a long time to master, but you should stick to the basics right now. In my opinion the best way to learn is by playing against the AI and also by reading AARs. There are some really good ones in the forums. Be sure to check the War Room and especiall the library of WitE resources: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4317692

1) Yes the numbers is a bit on the lowside. If you want to get better at airfield bombing check this AAR: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4426690&mpage=2&key=

2) It is normal that by turn 3 panzers are depleted of fuel. What you should do is pull some of the panzer corps back so they can build up their stocks and get their MP numbers up. Leave some panzer corps forward to hold the gains you made, let the infantry catch up to them.

Use the FBDs to repair the main lines. Construction battalions repair automatically and you have no control over them. Supply is the key to your advance. Have a clear vision in mind about which rail lines need to be repaired by your FBDs.

3) In my opinion it can make the difference between winning or losing a battle. You don't have to attack every hex, try to concentrate the air strikes where you want them. Attacking a unit will increase the number of disrupted men/squads which means they are not available to defend and do not contribute to the CV. Use these to your advantage.

4) Yes it is good to do so otherwise you won't be able to use the air force effectively. Telemecus has made a great guide about how you should move the airbases forward. It is in this AAR if I'm not mistaken: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4250683&mpage=1&key=

The rule of thumb is that you should never move airbases when they have aircraft on them as this increases fatigue and the numbers of miles flown.

With that being said, welcome to the forums once again and see you on the battlefield!

Best regards,
Xhoel


Hey Xhoel,

1) I read through the entire AAR and learned quite a bit so thanks for providing that.

2) Am I supposed to move the FBDs at all? If so do I move them the same way I move other units?




AlexSF -> RE: New to this game.. (12/13/2018 9:29:49 PM)

2/ you move the FDB along the rail you want to repair one hex at a time and you repair as you advance by clicking on the FDB's repair button, whatever it is named...




thedoctorking -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 12:13:14 AM)

You can also exercise some control over where the RR repair support units do their work by assigning them to corps HQ's and putting those HQ's on the rail head. They will work forward up to five hexes from where you put your HQ. It is not a perfect process but you can focus the conversion of your rail grid forward rather than having them work from the border forward and not get to your front line until sometime late in 1942.




therealevan -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 6:26:16 AM)

I am making myself laugh by how many blunders I have made on my very first game, but I've learned so much already and it appears that i have much more to learn.

So far I have:

1) Figured out how movement & attacking works to a basic level including railpool & hasty/deliberate attacks.
2) Thanks to you guys, rail repair / conversion seems to also be at a basic level of understanding so I am seeing the progression in rail lines moving further.
3) How to use recon, although I might be 'underusing' it at the moment. I have found their first lines of defense, still more to do here.
4) Bombing air fields is a no brainer, also using leftover bombers for softening up hexes that seem stubborn. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between that and 'air support' that resolves when I attack with a land unit. (Back to the rule back I go!)

Some questions I still have are:

1) is air dropping supplies or fuel available? I poked around in the rulebook some but wasn't able to find how it works but I did see a lot about the soviet side.
2) Can I use cavalry as a combative unit? Or are they more for recon? Rumania has a corp dedicated to cavalry and, well, they don't seem like a mean bunch. Cannon fodder perhaps?

That's all for now!






Chris21wen -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 8:03:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: therealevan

I am making myself laugh by how many blunders I have made on my very first game, but I've learned so much already and it appears that i have much more to learn.

So far I have:

1) Figured out how movement & attacking works to a basic level including railpool & hasty/deliberate attacks.
2) Thanks to you guys, rail repair / conversion seems to also be at a basic level of understanding so I am seeing the progression in rail lines moving further.
3) How to use recon, although I might be 'underusing' it at the moment. I have found their first lines of defense, still more to do here.
4) Bombing air fields is a no brainer, also using leftover bombers for softening up hexes that seem stubborn. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between that and 'air support' that resolves when I attack with a land unit. (Back to the rule back I go!)

Some questions I still have are:

1) is air dropping supplies or fuel available? I poked around in the rulebook some but wasn't able to find how it works but I did see a lot about the soviet side.
2) Can I use cavalry as a combative unit? Or are they more for recon? Rumania has a corp dedicated to cavalry and, well, they don't seem like a mean bunch. Cannon fodder perhaps?

That's all for now!



Try this unofficial one, specifically section 5.3.9 on air transport mode (F9).
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4529371

Yes. No such thing in the game as a ground recon mission. Some units have a buit in ability to scout during which helps with detection levels (Section 26.1.4) but some attacks may convert from a hasty attack to a Reconnaissance in Force though. See section 15.2.1.1.

Not for the Soviets anyway, very important part especially when you create Cav Corps.




Chris21wen -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 8:12:44 AM)

Ground attack is simply a bombing misssion by FB, LB or TacB a/c carried out like any other bombing mission except it targets ground units. Ground support also targets ground units but is automatically allocated by HQs during any attack carried out by combat units. You have no control over them but they are more effective than ground attack missions.




Zug -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 12:30:16 PM)


quote:


2) Can I use cavalry as a combative unit? Or are they more for recon? Rumania has a corp dedicated to cavalry and, well, they don't seem like a mean bunch. Cannon fodder perhaps?



They're useful during the blitzkrieg for taking ground and forcing disorganized Russian units to fall back. After the mad rush is over I re-assign them to a Rumanian HQ (4th Army) and use them as garrison troops/partisan hunters. Together with the Romanian armored unit they can garrison three cities and their mobility makes them useful in tracking down partisans.

They aren't as useful in a line role, so I like to keep them back and take care of internal security.




thedoctorking -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 3:44:39 PM)

The cavalry units, both the Romanian and Italian ones in the Axis OB and the many cav units in the Soviet army are useful for exploiting breakthroughs. They have high movement values, up to the mid 20's with good supply and leader rolls, but use non-motorized movement points. Soviet cav divisions can be combined into cav corps starting in fall 1941. These are the first corps-sized units in the Soviet OB and thus the first units that can have support units directly attached. This makes them, paradoxically, the lead units for Soviet counter-offensives in the winter of 1941-42. They are very fragile in heavy contact. If you attack a German division dug in, even with the blizzard nerf, the Germans might be displaced but your cavalry is going to have to go back behind the lines and lick its wounds. The best use for them is to have your infantry punch a hole in the Axis lines and then have the cav corps push through, attacking retreated enemy units in non-fortified hexes, and drive to pocket Axis units. This works best against the Axis minor allies, who have lower morale levels and thus are more likely to rout instead of retreating.




therealevan -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 6:32:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris21wen

Try this unofficial one, specifically section 5.3.9 on air transport mode (F9).
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4529371

Yes. No such thing in the game as a ground recon mission. Some units have a buit in ability to scout during which helps with detection levels (Section 26.1.4) but some attacks may convert from a hasty attack to a Reconnaissance in Force though. See section 15.2.1.1.

Not for the Soviets anyway, very important part especially when you create Cav Corps.


Ah thanks for that, I will review 26.1.4 & 15.2.1.1. I haven't played the Soviet side yet, so right now I just have a few cavalry units from Rumania & those in the German army.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zug

They're useful during the blitzkrieg for taking ground and forcing disorganized Russian units to fall back. After the mad rush is over I re-assign them to a Rumanian HQ (4th Army) and use them as garrison troops/partisan hunters. Together with the Romanian armored unit they can garrison three cities and their mobility makes them useful in tracking down partisans.

They aren't as useful in a line role, so I like to keep them back and take care of internal security.

Does partisan hunting happen automatically then? Don't think i have experienced that quite yet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

The cavalry units, both the Romanian and Italian ones in the Axis OB and the many cav units in the Soviet army are useful for exploiting breakthroughs. They have high movement values, up to the mid 20's with good supply and leader rolls, but use non-motorized movement points. Soviet cav divisions can be combined into cav corps starting in fall 1941. These are the first corps-sized units in the Soviet OB and thus the first units that can have support units directly attached. This makes them, paradoxically, the lead units for Soviet counter-offensives in the winter of 1941-42. They are very fragile in heavy contact. If you attack a German division dug in, even with the blizzard nerf, the Germans might be displaced but your cavalry is going to have to go back behind the lines and lick its wounds. The best use for them is to have your infantry punch a hole in the Axis lines and then have the cav corps push through, attacking retreated enemy units in non-fortified hexes, and drive to pocket Axis units. This works best against the Axis minor allies, who have lower morale levels and thus are more likely to rout instead of retreating.



I noticed that the national morale level for the minors are quite a bit lower than the Germans. In my current game (turn 5) it's very difficult to make ground near Kishinev, i made a minor break out but the soviets have considerable defenses near Odessa going all the way to Vinnitsa.




Zug -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 7:09:38 PM)


quote:


Does partisan hunting happen automatically then? Don't think i have experienced that quite yet.



Likely because you're early in the campaign. By December you'll be seeing partisans I would imagine.

It is not automatic. You'll need to eliminate these partisan counters, and to do so all you need to do is get one of your combat units adjacent to the partisan unit. During mud and snow, the reduced movement puts a premium on your partisan hunters, and why I like the cav and motorized regiments scattered throughout the realm. They are more likely to reach the partisan unit and eliminate it in the first turn they appear.

Security units do an oversized job with preventing the partisans in the first place, but partisans will still appear, even if every city it sufficiently garrisoned.

On the first grand campaign I played I remarked in my AAR that I was doing everything I could to garrison my cities, but when the blizzards hit I was also hit with a partisan explosion. As many as six or eight popped up in a given turn. I have a screenshot of like 6 partisans within 20 hexes of Moscow.

The truth is I had done a poor job of garrisoning. I had no real plan nor understanding. In some cities I had a security division, in others units like the French or Croatian regiments, which was insufficient. In others, I had no garrison at all, as I had run out of units to use. I had failed to consider the difference between city and urban hexes.

The second one, which I am playing now, I've done much better. I broke the security divisions down in to regiments/brigades and was able to garrison everywhere. The difference in partisan activity is striking. By getting these cities garrisoned almost as soon as they fell made a huge difference. I still get a few partisans, but nothing like the first run.

A single partisan can bring an entire front to a halt, especially in 1941 while you are still dependent on single spurs supporting your line. By 1942 you will start to have more redundancy built in to your rail system and far less vulnerable to a partisan attack.

Making good use of your construction bots is vitally important, but another topic altogether.




thedoctorking -> RE: New to this game.. (12/14/2018 10:34:47 PM)

You can normally run down partisans by railing a unit to a hex adjacent to the one they blew up and then running up to them. The cavalry is good for this though Romanian and Italian cav can't go north of the Axis Minor line (basically, AGS only). There is a German cavalry unit, the 8th SS Cav, that has little or no heavy weapons and should not be shot at by regular Russians if you can avoid it. Historically, they were mostly used for chasing down Jews and partisans. Since they're Germans, you can put them north of the swamps and the Romanians south for this purpose. Keep them entrained so they will have more movement factors left when they arrive at their destination. Since they are pretty light, they won't interfere with your rail capacity too much.

The other German cavalry unit, the 1st Cavalry, is actually a light armored unit and ought to be in a Panzer Corps.




Dorky8 -> RE: New to this game.. (1/1/2019 8:56:59 PM)

I too am trying to get my arms around the game. The comments above are greatly appreciated and helpful. I've tried the tutorial but it doesn't get you very far.

I guess the best way to learn is just start a scenario.

I bet its a lot of fun once you get good at it, getting there seems to be quite a journey.




tomeck48 -> RE: New to this game.. (1/6/2019 3:32:43 AM)

I'm not sure if it's fun when you get good at it, but I think it's really fun trying to get good at it.




AlexSF -> RE: New to this game.. (1/6/2019 9:23:40 AM)

Try one of the smaller but fun scenarios like Road to Leningrad as the German vs AI. Not too many units to handle but good combination of movement and siege war. Check the forums and the rules when you don' understand something.
Little by little you will get better. Then try the 41-45 campaign as German against AI. Crush it by 1942/43 and then only try your luck against a human, that's when the real fun (and trouble) starts.




GamesaurusRex -> RE: New to this game.. (1/6/2019 1:55:58 PM)

Welcome to the Addiction... [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]





Dorky8 -> RE: New to this game.. (1/9/2019 10:02:43 PM)

Thanks Alex, I appreciate the suggestions.




GamesaurusRex -> RE: New to this game.. (1/12/2019 1:31:28 PM)

@Dorkey8 : Actually, I was responding to the OP... but since you asked, I would suggest you read through the revised rules carefully. Also spend some time reading through the player comments, AARs, and patch notes in the forum. Much about this game is not evident on the face of it. I've played it for five years now and still find myself discovering that parts of it do not work as I thought upon first glance. In the end, some things can only be learned by doing it. There is no teacher in this case equal to hands on experience.

Even after you have a decent grasp of the rules and game mechanics, if you want to play a good game versus a live opponent, you will face the issues of releative player experience and how to set the initial game parameters to achieve a balanced playing field. This is especially hard if the players are not familiar with each other's level of understanding of the game. Understanding and managing the details does provide in an edge. In the end and despite the sometimes cryptic mechanics, the game is entertaining and worth the effort. As I said to the OP, welcome to the addiction. [sm=00000002.gif]




Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
3.710938E-02