RE: C4 T003 (Full Version)

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thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:39:56 PM)

Central Frontís deployments were made with the expectation that a full Panzer Army with about 50 MPís will be coming up the land bridge, seeking a lodgment across the Dnepr or to hook north to pocket forces in the Vitebsk-Polotsk region. A lesser possibility, more likely if the HQBUís were in the south, is for the Axis armor to push up to the Dnepr near Mogliev and attempt to cross. So far, the Axis have prioritized taking terrain over destroying Soviet units, so I suspect a run at Smolensk and an attempt to cross upriver from there.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:41:36 PM)

In both Center and North, we launched a major air superiority campaign this turn. By first ground bombing every available hex with poor-quality fighter-bombers and level bombers, we drew German fighter interceptors out repeatedly. As the number of planes intercepting each strike fell, and their combat effectiveness appeared to decrease (apparent from declining numbers of our own planes shot down), we realized that their fatigue levels had climbed and perhaps fuel and ammo stocks were nearly exhausted. Then, we launched our better fighters and ground attack planes at their air bases. The campaign was a great success as we shot down something like 60 German fighters in this region. Combined with losses in the southern sector, and bomber losses during those missions we canít find out about, total Axis aircraft losses for the turn were 297 to our 947. Of our losses, only about 100 were first-line planes, well below replacement levels. Of their 94 fighter losses, 32 were Bf109E-3ís, assigned to units that are about to be withdrawn. Iím not clear on what happens if a withdrawn air unit is significantly understrength. I know if an on-map unit is understrength when it is to be withdrawn, it sits back in Germany on refit stealing replacements from everybody else until it gets up to a certain level. Hopefully, those shot-up withdrawing fighter squadrons will take some useful German fighters with them when they go. In any case, this appears to have been a victorious turn for the Red Air Force.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:43:20 PM)

In the southern theater, the Axis invaders turned south, heading for the Black Sea and Odessa. This came as a surprise to me and to the rest of our team. German armored and motorized units are concentrated in southwestern Ukraine or divided up into a double line of regiments sealing the first-turn pockets beyond hope of relief. The imperiled units that made last turnís counter attacks were either driven off or ignored rather than pocketed in their turn. Infantry moved up from the rear along the northern side of the pocket rather than squeezing into it, suggesting a possible German move directly on Kiev next turn. Hereís the situation in the northern half of the sector at the beginning of our turn:


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:44:00 PM)

And hereís the Odessa region. In this area, we noted a possible weakness as a mere Romanian armored division blocked the Odessa forces from a breakthrough that would go through two German Panzer Corps HQís.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:45:02 PM)

In the northern Ukraine sector, we fell back towards Kiev, putting the majority of Southwest Frontís strength in front of an expected German infantry push towards the city. A screen of Southern Front units cover the open space to the south with a 70-mile cushion between them and the German armored screen holding the pocket open. Soldiers inside the pocket have been informed that if they fight to the end, their children will be guaranteed access to the best training schools, but if they surrender, their families will the ďstudying the geography of the north-eastern regionĒ for many years. A few parachute drops of supplies helped some of the units maintain enough strength to fight on.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:46:02 PM)

To the south, a successful counter attack from the Odessa pocket opened the route to Soviet-controlled territory to the north and also isolated a panzer corps around Ochakov. This required the likely sacrifice of a good cavalry division, but the exchange was well worth it. Most of the units in the Odessa pocket evacuated by sea, for reasons similar to the situation in Riga. If an assault on the city is successful, the fleeing units will not evacuate by sea but instead retreat to Soviet-occupied territory within the pocket, sealing their fate. Two divisions remain in the pocket, and an additional one still down on the Romanian border. Incidentally, no Romanians are in front of that division, meaning that if he has enough movement points next turn he can take a Romanian city. I think he has to be in supply to trigger Romanian surrender, but it will still be embarrassing for the Iron Guard to explain away.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T003 (9/10/2018 3:47:08 PM)

Total ground losses this turn were 21,033 for the Axis and 208,194 for the USSR. Destroyed units included 18 divisions and 5 brigades. For turn 3, this is a good outcome, especially when combined with the dramatic Axis air losses discussed above. TOE totals are 4,925,733 Axis to 3,628,375 for us. Their deployed aircraft went from 4,065 last turn to 3,815 now while ours climbed from 8,055 to 8,339. The new version of the game we are playing nerfed the Red Air Force to some extent, but I think we still have the advantage in the air.

Neogodhobo -> RE: C4 Axis T2 (9/12/2018 8:19:11 PM)


ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

There is a concentration of German armor north of the direct Riga-Velikiye Luki rail line, and it is possible that he plans to swing north in a surprise move. Those units appear to be all regiments, however, as visible both by the fact that they didnít convert hexes in their ZOC and the low entrenchment levels that they achieved. They appear to be there to prevent a Soviet counterstroke towards the south rather than to push aggressively north themselves.
Giving credence to a northern strategy is the continued air assault on the port of Osinovets. Two raids of 40+ Ju88ís attacked the city this turn. Mig-3ís of 7 PVO Corps were in the air to meet them, and 8 fascist bombers met their end. The port suffered 5% damage.
No attempt was made to isolate or attack Riga. The units there will be free to move overland towards the main line of resistance and or dig in for a lengthy defense of the city, resupplied by sea as long as we hold Leningrad.
The main German armor in this sector is south of the Sorot/Velikaya river junction, either aiming for an indirect move behind Pskov or to push directly along the Velikiye Luki line. German infantry units have crossed the Dvina upriver from Riga and are also apparently heading for the upper Velikaya line along the road to Velikiye Luki.
Our response to this threat saw the 24th Army brought up from its reserve positions around Rzhev to garrison the Velikaya line south of the Sorot junction. Unfortunately the 22nd Army, originally stationed around Velikiye Luki, was called south for the unsuccessful counterattack in the Vitebsk sector Ė a problem with crossed signals of communication between North and Central commands. Therefore, Velikiye Luki is currently undefended. If there is a German armored corps somewhere back behind AGNís lines that did an HQBU last turn, we could well have Germans in there next turn.
Another, less serious, mistake was the organization of the defense of Riga. We left two divisions in there, but did not garrison the hex to the southeast that is the only non river hexside of the city. It is now conceivable that a German infantry corps could move in there with enough MP for a deliberate attack on the city, capturing it next turn. This is not a critical mistake Ė the units there would retreat or rout and would be very unlikely to be destroyed. Still, an unfortunate tactical error that lessens the chance that we can hold Riga as a fortified outpost in their territory like Odessa to the south.


Indeed, the element of surprise was a big factor in Northern's Commander overall strategy.
The idea was to be aggressive, and unpredictable. (Especially so with working 12-16 hours per day,
every day for several weeks, there was not much time to give to complicated strategy and planning )
There wasnt much advance that could be done while waiting for the infantry to rejoin the front line,
so the Panzer groups were separated and tasked with taking as much ground possible in every direction possible.

A choice that would prove quite useless, in part, but also had served its purpose. Confusing the enemy.
The hope was that they would have no idea where the main concentration area would be, so that they either,

A) Protect the whole front of a thin defensive line.
B) Protect a few strong area and leave the rest open.

Either way, it would be positive for the Germans, having the choice to attack in every direction of their choosing. Two option would present them :

A1) attack everywhere he wants along the thin defensive line.
B1) Surround the few strong area and eliminate the defenders.
C) Leave the enemy wondering while waiting for the infantry and
wait for more mistakes to be made by them.

Ultimately, the order to wait for the infantry was given.
Pressure to be put on Pskov was ordered. And infantry to
keep advancing on all directions were barked.
As a special request from Central Commander ( then Searry, who was soon
to be replaced by the Northern Commander : Neogodhobo ) Northern Front
was asked to capture the swamp area with Elite Totenkopf SS Mot. Div of 4th Pz.Gr.
The request was immediately denied, but upon looking into his cold cold heart,
Hobo decided to take the swamp area after all. Although instead of sending the
Totenkopf, the mission was given to Generalleutnant Theodor Freiherr von Wrede,
and the 290th Inf. Div of the 56th Pz. corps saw their task being accomplished.

All in all, the separation of the Panzer Divisions was still unnecessary, but
was great to play either way. I wonder if the enemy would have still been
confused whether or not I would have separated them.


Telemecus -> C4 T004 (9/13/2018 8:48:14 PM)

Team Turn 4

Team changes this turn as we gain new commanders for North, South and Air. Our previous North commander moves to take over Centre. So from turn 4 our team line up is

North & Air: Erzac
Centre: Neogodhobo
South: mssm45
Chief of Staff: Telemecus

Neogodhobo -> RE: C4 T004 (9/14/2018 3:43:14 PM)


ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Team Turn 4

Team changes this turn as we gain new commanders for North, South and Air. Our previous North commander moves to take over Centre. So from turn 4 our team line up is

North & Air: Erzac
Centre: Neogodhobo
South: mssm45
Air Warfare strategy Advisor : Searry
Chief of Staff: Telemecus

I believe this is more appropriate.

Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/14/2018 7:38:41 PM)

To commemorate Erzac taking up the air role in Connect 4 Goebbels' Ministry commissioned a special film to be made!


They commissioned it from a hither to little known film maker - also Erzac! [:)]


"I am now the student - Erzac is the master" Leni Riefenstahl

"Whoever else won the Oscar this year, Erzac was robbed" Jack Warner

"For my next propaganda film, they will be my go to guy" Joseph Goebbels

"The future of filmography" Alfred Hitchcock

Neogodhobo -> RE: C4 T004 (9/14/2018 9:57:21 PM)

Turn 4. THE, famous turn 4. The turn, that changed everything, as is common in early M.M.W
(Massive Multiplayer Wargames) games.

General Searry took an early retirement, under condition of staying and advising the new Air General.
He then returned home and took the role of Air Warfare Strategy Advisor with reduced pay
and benefits, while receiving half of his retirement money.

General Joneleth stepped on a landmine, never to be seen again..

Hobo was transfered to take command in the Central front. Erzac was promoted to take command of both
Northern Front and Air Commander. Mssm45 was promoted to take command of Southern Front.

This led to a halt in the Central Front. It was the 10th July, 41, and Hobo had to recollect everything
and move everyone in position according to his plans. It was a bit of a mess..

9th Army was spread all over the place, with 42nd Corps and 5th Corps scattered behind Minsk, while the
rest of the army was fighting North-West of Vitebsk. 4th Army was far behind Minsk. 2nd Pz.Gr. was cut in two
to support the attack South. Therefore they had only been able to advance to Minsk, while 3rd Pz. Gr. was already
fighting in the Vitebsk area.

Situation on the Center, 10th July 1941.

In his eye, everything screamed disaster. He would have to sacrifice a couple turn and re-organised everything.
So turn 4 did not see much progress, but by the end of the turn, 9th Army was completely regrouped together to
the exception of one division. 2nd Army was re-positioned as reserve in Vilnius. 4th Army was marched past Minsk,
and angry calls to Chief of Staff was made to regain control of the rest of its group, they were going to rejoin
with them near Gomel. 4th Army was marched towards to the South-West vicinity Minsk. 3rd Pz.Gr was ordered to halt
and take defensive position North of Vitebsk. The city being abandoned last turn, it was decided not to capture it
back with Panzer Divisions and wait for the infantry.

With Central front reorganized. It was now a matter of waiting for the infantry to arrive on the front line..

Situation on the Center, 16th July, 1941.

thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/14/2018 10:22:11 PM)

Oh, that's where they were! I spent several turns wondering where the heck 2nd Army had gotten itself to.

Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 8:30:13 PM)

Axis North Turn 4


Glorius conquest of the cough undefended cough Riga


Pskov seems like some work to do


SparkleyTits -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 8:35:11 PM)


Glorius conquest of the cough undefended cough Riga


Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 8:49:56 PM)

Axis South Turn 4

Pockets held this turn - so the great destruction of Soviet units begins. More care is taken to protect our supply corridor from Poland. The rules of the game means there is no danger of a Rumanian surrender - but allocations continue to insist on the importance of protecting industry at Galati. Our rails are still susceptible to marauding. Odessa is taken and the forces temporarily isolated at Ochakow are brought back into supply. Across the board there is an advance towards the Dnepr.

With a large part of 2nd Panzer Group south of the marshes thoughts turn to how to bring them together again


We need to align on PZG2 strategy between center and south I am one turn from the Kiev suburbs My proposal is to take Kiev asap to allow PZG2 to move back to center via Gomel



I have to admit that it was my first real WitE turn

Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 9:02:25 PM)

Axis Air Turn 4



Send help - I actually like the air warfare


Now it has mig-3's up the wazoo




I am the one who uses the Slovak air force to spam bomb everything ... - they all leave so I want to squeeze every drop out before then

Might want to present the idea to Slovak leadership with mildly different wording [:)]

Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 9:06:35 PM)


yes the kabuki will likely strain your brain a lot first then a bit less later [:)]

Unlike solo games, it is quite common in team games for players to leave and new ones to join. All that is asked is they help during the handover to their successor. Searry was the one to do that - and much more. After days of briefing our new air commander on the air warfare system of WitE Erzac surfaces to give his reaction


Searry just talked me through air warfare which has lead me to one conclusion - I need to get more beer

Searry went way beyond what we could ever have asked and deserves a special tip of the hat, mention in dispatches and commendation! Searry still pops in to advise us and will always be a valued friend of the game - thankyou Searry!


it's funny how I played this game for 2 years every day but there's still so much arcane knowledge it's like interpreting what hieroglyphs mean without the rosetta stone


Who wants to spend hundreds of hours moving counters on a map?
I do!


Loving this micro [:)]


looks like reality is different from patch notes once again [:)]

xhoel -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 9:08:19 PM)

Axis air casualties seem pretty high considering that its only turn 4. How forward are the fighter groups deployed? Are they not using air ranges?

Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 9:15:50 PM)


Axis air casualties seem pretty high considering that its only turn 4. How forward are the fighter groups deployed? Are they not using air ranges?

I think some axis air bases were displaced during the Soviet turn [:(] More care did need to be taken of Soviet marauding in the rear - isolated forces are not dead yet!

Telemecus -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 9:21:30 PM)

Axis Allocations Turn 4

For information only.

SparkleyTits -> RE: C4 T004 (9/15/2018 9:23:13 PM)

Yeah I would like to say three cheers to Doctorking for his eager initiative in the air!

He has happily taken on the roll of aggresive air commando with VERY little prodding from Stalin and is even taking the first round of logistics as soon as the turn comes in with the dreaded KABUKI no less!!!
Blasphemy I say!!

All hail our air ace Doctorking [:D]

xhoel -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 12:09:25 AM)

@Tele: Have to be careful from now on then I guess.
@ST: Abosoluetly, well done action all around!

thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:35:29 PM)

Connect 4 AAR, turn 4

Turn 4 marked a major transition in the personnel of our game as the Axis AGC and AGS commanders left the game, replaced by newcomers, who took AGN and AGS, while the AGN commander moved to command in the center. In the Soviet turn, our own north commander retired to ďstudy the geography of the north-eastern regionsĒ under the benevolent supervision of the NKVD. After finishing the turn; he will be replaced by a good communist to be named later (before turn 5). Additionally, our Chief of Staff resigned his team manager duties, to be replaced by me. His role as CoS remains unchanged. So here is the game participant lineup as of the end of Soviet turn 4:

Axis Team: Erzac North & Air, Hobotango Centre, Belgavox South, Telemecus CoS and acting team manager
Soviet Team: TBA North, Doctorking Centre/Team manager, Icalli South, SparkleTits CoS

I also began a tracking spreadsheet monitoring the position and (hopefully) command, supply, and CV status of Axis motorized formations. Here is the first version, done for this turn. One of my fellow players in the 2by3 multiplayer game, Mameluke, is doing this for us and I thought it was a very useful innovation.

Corps Commander Division Strength Supply state Turn 4
4th Panzer Group Hoepner Pskov region
4th Pz Group Hoepner Totenkopf SS Motorized 18 25 Pskov 72, 33
4th/XXXXI Pz Corps Reinhardt 1 Panzer 39 25 Pskov 69,30
6th Panzer 40 25 Pskov 69, 30
36 Motorized 22 25 Pskov 69,30
4th/LVI Panzer Corps Manstein 8th Panzer 37 25 Pskov 73,33
4th/LVI Panzer Corps Manstein 3rd Motorized 24 25 Pskov 73,33
2nd Panzer Group Guderian Moldova region
900th Lehr Motorized Regiment Polotsk 71,45
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps Schweppenburg 10th Motorized 8 + 6 + ? 10 (rgts) Bar 68,93
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps Schweppenburg 3rd Panzer 15 + 14 + 14 15 (rgts) Vradievka 80.99
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps Schweppenburg 4th Panzer
2nd/XXIV Panzer Corps Schweppenburg 1st Cavalry 15? ? Tulchin 71,95
2nd/XXXXVi Panzer Corps Vietinghoff 10th Panzer
2nd/XXXXVi Panzer Corps Vietinghoff Das Reich SS Motorized 6 + 10 + 9 16 (rgts) Voznesensk 82,101
2nd/XXXXVi Panzer Corps Vietinghoff Grossdeutschland Motorized Rgt Land bridge region?
2nd/XXXXVII Panzer Corps Lemelsen 17th Panzer 37 32 Orsha 79,52
2nd/XXXXVII Panzer Corps Lemelsen 18th Panzer Land bridge region?
2nd/XXXXVII Panzer Corps Lemelsen 29th Motorized 7 + 6 + 7 19 (rgts) Monastyriche 76,90
3rd Panzer Group Hoth Land Bridge region
3rd Panzer Group Hoth 7th Panzer 32? 32? Bogushevski 78,51
3rd/XXXIX Panzer Corps Schmidt 20th Panzer 34 32 HQBU Vitebsk 78,49
3rd/XXXIX Panzer Corps Schmidt 14th Motorized 7 + 7 + 7 36 HQBU (rgts) Bogushevski 79,50
3rd/XXXIX Panzer Corps Schmidt 20th Motorized 26 34 HQBU Vitebsk 79,49
3rd/LVII Panzer Corps Kuntzen 12 Panzer 11 + 9 + 10 33 (rgts) Krupki 76,55
3rd/LVII Panzer Corps Kuntzen 19th Panzer 41 32 Orsha 79, 53
3rd/LVII Panzer Corps Kuntzen 18th Motorized 23 33 Orsha 80,52
1st Panzer Group Kleist Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler SS Motorized ? ? Berezovka 81,103
1st/III Panzer Corps Mackensen 25th Motorized
1st/III Panzer Corps Mackensen 14th Panzer 13 + 13 + 14 16 (rgts) Vradievka 80.99
1st/III Panzer Corps Mackensen 13th Panzer ? ? Petrovka 82,104
1st/XIV Panzer Corps Wietersheim Wiking SS Motorized
1st/XIV Panzer Corps Wietersheim 9th Panzer
1st/XIV Panzer Corps Wietersheim 16th Panzer 8 + 9 + 12 19 (rgts) Pogrebische 76,89
1st/XXXXVIII Panzer Corps Kempf 16th Motorized 21 16 Voznesensk 82,101
1st/XXXXVIII Panzer Corps Kempf 11th Panzer 37 14 Vradievka 79,99
8th SS Cavalry Brigade
60th Motorized
Slovakian Motorized Division ? ? Vinnitsa 74,86
1st Rumanian Armored 5 15 Vradievka 81,100
6th Army/XXXX Panzer Corps
2nd Panzer
5th Panzer
Latvian SS Motorized Brigade
203rd Panzer Regiment
22nd Panzer division

Axis turn 4 was relatively uneventful and probably represented preparatory steps for a major attack on turn 5. The front line only moved a little in the south and hardly at all in the north and center.

In the north, Axis motorized forces from 4th Panzer Group attacked both sides of the Pskov defense zone, without advancing very far, while a large infantry group of about seven divisions, tentatively identified as 18th Army, moved up from the Riga area to confront the Pskov defenses from the west. A screen of infantry faced off against our weak defenses in 24th Armyís sector to the south, while a reduced strength infantry corps advanced into Estonia against no resistance.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:36:48 PM)

In the central sector, XXXIX Panzer Corps appears to have done an HQBU last turn, as we suspected, but did not use their additional movement to attack. Instead, they moved a short distance up to what must be jumping off positions for an attack next turn. The infantry in this sector was still way back knocking off the first turn pocket guys and so presumably the armor decided to wait for support. At least two infantry armies are now in the general vicinity, though not quite up to the armor positions at the base of the land bridge. Instead, the infantry of 9th and 16th Armies is massed near Polotsk, still showing at least a potential move along the Velikie Luki line as I have previously anticipated. Elements of 4th Army participated in the reduction of pockets in eastern Belarus and the capture of Minsk. They are presumably ready to advance towards the Berezina and upper Dnepr.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:37:57 PM)

In the north Ukraine, the Axis left the first turn pockets mostly unreduced, possibly in a bid to delay the ultimate arrival of replacement units. We were unable to reopen those pockets last turn, so attacking the pocket did allow the Axis to destroy some units. There was almost no combat along our actual front. At least one Panzer Group, probably 2nd, stands east of Vinnitsa, presumably bringing up supplies. The remainder of 2nd Panzer Group is farther to the south, some still cleaning up the pocket and others accompanying (or cross-attached to) 1st Panzer Group along the Nizhny Bug. Elements of three German infantry armies are in this region, including 2nd Army, activated on turn 2. This army appears to have moved rapidly along the southern edge of the Pripet Marshes and is now threatening the Kiev region.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:39:06 PM)

Turns out it wasn't 2nd Army. Intel chiefs are embarrassed at their mis-identification.

thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:39:42 PM)

To the south, the main concentration of German armor moved up to our positions on the Nizhny Bug but did not attempt to cross. One probing attack just succeeded in getting some SS guys damp and giving our tanks a workout. However, now there is a mass of German armor right up in Southern Frontís face. What that armor lacks, though, is German infantry to back it up. The German army that starts in Romania, 11th, is scattered all the way from the Black Sea to north Moldova. The infantry that is near the armor stacks in the south Ukraine is all Romanian.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:40:37 PM)

In the far north, the treacherous Finns broke the peace treaty we signed with them last year and pushed forward into 7th Independent Armyís positions. We retreated in good order and began fortifying the Karelian Ithsmus to protect the northern flank of Leningrad and free mobile combat units to fight the Germans. We plan to defend the Janisjarvi chokepoint with 7th Independent, at lest for a while. The cost of building a fort line along the whole Finnish no-attack line seemed excessive and the northern region commander thought this would be a good place to farm Guards units.


thedoctorking -> RE: C4 T004 (9/16/2018 3:41:41 PM)

On the main part of northern regionís front, we pulled back to a defensive position in the immediate vicinity of Pskov, and to the north, while thinning our lines in the plains to the south. Hopefully, the units we have left behind will be able to prevent a German armored breakthrough with LVI Panzer Corps, while giving us enough to foil a dramatic movement along the lake shore to the north of the city. Meanwhile, 24th Army gave ground slowly south of the Sorot, taking up a position along the Velikaya and in the swamps to the south. It is possible that this could lead to a pocket of a significant force in the Pskov area, but reserves are already fortifying the Luga. Northern region commander was very confident, right before the NKVD guys showed up to escort him to his new positionÖ


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