OT: Update on Collision (Full Version)

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Rusty1961 -> OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 2:11:51 AM)

http://theothermccain.com/2018/06/17/tip-pentagon-covering-up-fact-that-female-officers-nearly-sank-navy-ship/




MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 2:17:18 AM)

...

[image]local://upfiles/55056/266781CE28064A97B9915A8341AD0649.jpg[/image]




spence -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 4:33:31 AM)

Although it appears that Lt Combs was unconscionably derelict in her duties in the CIC she was not alone there. The Tactical Action Officer, also a Lt and presumably male (FN: Idrian) was there as well as a number of enlisted watch-standers. Perhaps it is just "The New Navy" but in my day aboard ship the average enlisted man would have had no qualms about saying "Hey, pull your heads out of your @sses, SIRS!" a goodly while prior to collision.





Trugrit -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 11:33:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Although it appears that Lt Combs was unconscionably derelict in her duties in the CIC she was not alone there. The Tactical Action Officer, also a Lt and presumably male (FN: Idrian) was there as well as a number of enlisted watch-standers. Perhaps it is just "The New Navy" but in my day aboard ship the average enlisted man would have had no qualms about saying "Hey, pull your heads out of your @sses, SIRS!" a goodly while prior to collision.



The correct terminology from my day in the navy would be:

“With all due respect sir; pull your head out of your @ss”

The problem I think is time. Naval Officers these days are trained to be fully proficient in climate change, race relations, sexual harassment, transgender and LGBT studies, politically correct speech, women’s empowerment studies, cultural appropriation and cultural sensitivity.

They just don’t have the time to study basic seamanship.

That as well as the fact that an officer has to spend a lot of time thinking carefully about what they say
when one slight off color remark can can trigger someone and end their naval career.

As an example if an officer on bridge watch was to say something like:
“Hey, I just got a new optical sight for my AR-15 rifle and its a real beauty”.

A remark like that could trigger the entire bridge crew and they may curl up into the full fetal position and begin to whine and cry. That could cause a collision.






Encircled -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 2:20:51 PM)

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?




BillBrown -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 2:48:23 PM)

In my WitP:AE games I do get collisions and I doubt there are any women on board. [;)]




pbiggar -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 3:10:38 PM)

I thought this site was for talking about the most awesome WWII Pacific War game in history and other equally cool stuff?
Let’s all go and play another turn and close this thread.




Lokasenna -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 3:49:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Although it appears that Lt Combs was unconscionably derelict in her duties in the CIC she was not alone there. The Tactical Action Officer, also a Lt and presumably male (FN: Idrian) was there as well as a number of enlisted watch-standers. Perhaps it is just "The New Navy" but in my day aboard ship the average enlisted man would have had no qualms about saying "Hey, pull your heads out of your @sses, SIRS!" a goodly while prior to collision.



The correct terminology from my day in the navy would be:

“With all due respect sir; pull your head out of your @ss”

The problem I think is time. Naval Officers these days are trained to be fully proficient in climate change, race relations, sexual harassment, transgender and LGBT studies, politically correct speech, women’s empowerment studies, cultural appropriation and cultural sensitivity.

They just don’t have the time to study basic seamanship.

That as well as the fact that an officer has to spend a lot of time thinking carefully about what they say
when one slight off color remark can can trigger someone and end their naval career.

As an example if an officer on bridge watch was to say something like:
“Hey, I just got a new optical sight for my AR-15 rifle and its a real beauty”.

A remark like that could trigger the entire bridge crew and they may curl up into the full fetal position and begin to whine and cry. That could cause a collision.





[8|]


There is far too much tinfoil in these parts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.




PaxMondo -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 4:33:04 PM)

So, you have to wonder if the crew set the OOD up. As others have noted, there were likely at least 5 other naval personnel who should have been aware. Either collectively they were all texting when they should have had "eyes out" (our terminology for being aware of the space in which you are operating) or …


To say such things don't happen is to ignore both history and human nature. I'm of the age where I witnessed the 'integration' of other minority groups into the general flow and, very sorry to say, I was witness to any mumber of rather poor behaviors on the part of individuals who otherwise were excellent people.

I wasn't there, so I cannot possibly know. But the evidence publically presented is not passing the 'sniff' test.

Having reached this conclusion, the solution is anything but easy or obvious. Trust is earned, not ordered. And when you are talking about teams where the collective team's lives are on the line, well ... That the bar for this OOD is likely higher than someone else isn't fair, but it is also the price of admission (sadly). Historically, this has been the path and there doesn't appear to be an easier way. Hopefully in 10 years or so, this particular minority will be fully integrated.





BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 6:25:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.


BBs Washington and Indiana collided on Feb.1, 1944 :

At 0415, the Indiana’s Captain, James M. Steele, made an unannounced turn to starboard which put the warship on a collision course with the battleship USS Washington. Despite the efforts of the Washington to change course, the two ships collided. The Indiana had 200 feet of armor plating scraped away, while the Washington suffered a collapsed bow. Six sailors from the Washington and four from the Indiana were killed in the accident. Captain Steele was later found responsible by a Court of Inquiry and was removed from command in March. Both ships were forced to return to Pearl Harbor for extensive repairs.


EDIT: and CV JFK collided with USS Belknap: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/uss-belknap-collided-aircraft-carrier.html

EDIT2: and then there is this list from the NY Times, which does not even go back to WWII: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/navy-collisions-history-mccain-fitzgerald.html





witpqs -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/23/2018 7:55:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.


BBs Washington and Indiana collided on Feb.1, 1944 :

At 0415, the Indiana’s Captain, James M. Steele, made an unannounced turn to starboard which put the warship on a collision course with the battleship USS Washington. Despite the efforts of the Washington to change course, the two ships collided. The Indiana had 200 feet of armor plating scraped away, while the Washington suffered a collapsed bow. Six sailors from the Washington and four from the Indiana were killed in the accident. Captain Steele was later found responsible by a Court of Inquiry and was removed from command in March. Both ships were forced to return to Pearl Harbor for extensive repairs.


EDIT: and CV JFK collided with USS Belknap: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/uss-belknap-collided-aircraft-carrier.html

EDIT2: and then there is this list from the NY Times, which does not even go back to WWII: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/navy-collisions-history-mccain-fitzgerald.html



All of those 'never were any' comments were sarcasm.




Lokasenna -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/24/2018 3:20:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Amazing that we never had collisons before women started taking charge eh?


I certainly can't remember any.


BBs Washington and Indiana collided on Feb.1, 1944 :

At 0415, the Indiana’s Captain, James M. Steele, made an unannounced turn to starboard which put the warship on a collision course with the battleship USS Washington. Despite the efforts of the Washington to change course, the two ships collided. The Indiana had 200 feet of armor plating scraped away, while the Washington suffered a collapsed bow. Six sailors from the Washington and four from the Indiana were killed in the accident. Captain Steele was later found responsible by a Court of Inquiry and was removed from command in March. Both ships were forced to return to Pearl Harbor for extensive repairs.


EDIT: and CV JFK collided with USS Belknap: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/uss-belknap-collided-aircraft-carrier.html

EDIT2: and then there is this list from the NY Times, which does not even go back to WWII: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/navy-collisions-history-mccain-fitzgerald.html



All of those 'never were any' comments were sarcasm.


Yeah, I was being facetious.

I had a thought that maybe I should've made each individual word a link to a separate incident that occurred without involving any female officers.




BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/24/2018 4:59:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
Yeah, I was being facetious.

I had a thought that maybe I should've made each individual word a link to a separate incident that occurred without involving any female officers.


That would have been very cool!




jamesjohns -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/24/2018 1:41:09 PM)

Let’s stick to the game and avoid politics, plenty of other places on internet for it




JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/24/2018 9:20:04 PM)

This kind of misogynistic , slanted writing is not worth posing here. What point are you trying to make? Women are not up to the job? Why don't you look up Tammie Jo Shults and tell me female Navy officers are not up to the job. Unfortunately I didn't see the name of the propaganda organization that started the smear job...the junk paper Washington Times, until the end of the article. The the nitwit author posts this as absolute fact "Another fun fact: In the Navy that won WWII, the damage control officers were usually some of the biggest and strongest men aboard" while offering no back up whatsoever except his opinion. I guess he failed to mention what ship he served on in WWII and what battles he saw these giant damage control perform these heroic actions. I really expect more from this forum and don't know how the mods missed this. I have not had to block a member in a long time, but unfortunately....I had to block the original poster. We are better than this. grind your ax elsewhere




jamesjohns -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/25/2018 3:05:27 AM)

Thank you for posting JohnDillworth. I agree with your post and that this board and the vast majority of posters are better than this




Lokasenna -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/25/2018 3:54:26 PM)

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!

[image]https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/110/images/thumbnails/32317-1-1361716819.jpg[/image]




Zorch -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/25/2018 4:09:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!

[image]https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/110/images/thumbnails/32317-1-1361716819.jpg[/image]

Can you bury hatchets there, too?




Dili -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/25/2018 4:27:23 PM)

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/06/navy-study-finds-junior-swos-major-gaps-seamanship-ship-handling-knowledge
Navy Study Finds Junior SWOs Have Major Gaps in Seamanship, Ship Handling Knowledge

“Of the 164 officers assessed, only 27 Completed No Concerns, 108 Completed Some Concerns and 29 had Significant Concerns. In short, this confirms we have work to do.”

The study also found that the practical application of the maritime rules of the road was a deficiency in the junior officers quizzed. While 91 percent passed the written test, “more than half of the officers assessed struggled to correctly apply rules of the road during encounters in the scenario,”


Not surprising, even if they were all men, when PC takes over being pious(political replaces religious in this case) is the name of the game.




FlyByKnight -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/25/2018 7:59:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!

[image]https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/110/images/thumbnails/32317-1-1361716819.jpg[/image]

Can you bury hatchets there, too?

I'm sure there's a mod for that.




BBfanboy -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/25/2018 8:51:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Ooo, I know where axes can be ground!

[image]https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/110/images/thumbnails/32317-1-1361716819.jpg[/image]

Do Gunnys also use that one to grind recruit a$$es, or just hold officer candidates noses to it?




jamesjohns -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/26/2018 2:09:02 AM)

A




jamesjohns -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/26/2018 9:42:32 PM)

a




jamesjohns -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/26/2018 10:02:34 PM)

Typical Damage Control Officers of past generations......

[image]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Sailor_Art_Thomas.jpg[/image]

[image]http://mattypradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/tugboat.png[/image]

Damage Control Officers in action

Somewhere in the South Pacific they position planes for take-off

[image]https://media.defense.gov/2008/Nov/20/2000660827/-1/-1/0/080915-F-7825H-103.JPG[/image]

Ship lost power, Damage Control Officer steps in

[image]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-5JFeFPoYFY/hqdefault.jpg[/image]

Emergency Repairs

[image]https://5b58b124e99a27aafddaa36f-pzj5dt7zcveqnbfey.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Image1455721167836-1.jpg[/image]






Lecivius -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/27/2018 4:25:51 PM)

DC, after an engine casualty, in The Good Ole Days



[image]local://upfiles/26061/C4BB1474A0C24C3AA0FEAF631E0E7D6E.jpg[/image]




Orm -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/27/2018 4:45:42 PM)

[&:]

I do not understand why it was so wrong to link the article that starts this thread. Regardless of what one thinks of the article itself.




JohnDillworth -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/27/2018 5:13:45 PM)

Whole point of the article was to insinuate women are not fit to serve in the U.S. Navy. Factually full of holes, poorly researched and uses a primary source that trades in climate change denial, Obama is a secret Muslim crackpot theories. Lots went wrong in those incidents, I’ve read the reports. To blame it on gender, when none of the official evidence supports that ridiculous assertion, is offensive.




jamesjohns -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/27/2018 5:25:39 PM)

Agreed,

Competence or incompetence in the military (or any organization) is nothing new and not related to sex, race, or creed. The article and source it is from, at best, ignored that fact




witpqs -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/27/2018 5:27:49 PM)

Yup. And based on the OP's posts in the prior thread it was clearly his intention to continue claiming such.




Orm -> RE: OT: Update on Collision (6/27/2018 5:31:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

Whole point of the article was to insinuate women are not fit to serve in the U.S. Navy. Factually full of holes, poorly researched and uses a primary source that trades in climate change denial, Obama is a secret Muslim crackpot theories. Lots went wrong in those incidents, I’ve read the reports. To blame it on gender, when none of the official evidence supports that ridiculous assertion, is offensive.

Thank you.

My thinking, however, is that if what all you say is true about the article then I think it is still important to share knowledge about such a article. Preferably with comments about the articles faults although that can be difficult to do here without breaking the forum rules.




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