Canadian Customers beware of UPS “Brokerage” fees. (Full Version)

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Keebler -> Canadian Customers beware of UPS “Brokerage” fees. (6/9/2001 10:42:00 PM)

With SPWAW now shipping, many Canadian customers may be in for a big shock when the UPS guy comes to deliver the small software package. I ordered three packages all about the same week back when the pre orders for SPWAW started. All were shipped UPS unfortunately for me. The first I received was an Ink refill kit from Washington. The product was 69.65 US + 6.75 Shipping. When I received my package I was charged 7.48 CAN GST(as expected) no duty, but UPS charged me a whopping 36.50 CAN “Brokerage” fee! The second package was not much bigger than a CD case. It contained a CD with software I paid 38.50 US + 5.50US Shipping. When the package arrived I paid 3.10 CAN GST (as expected) no duty, but UPS charged me a whopping 23.50 CAN “Brokerage” fee! I hate to think what I will be charged when UPS shows up at my door with two copies of SPWAW, and a T shirt. I’m guessing I’ll be charged an other 30 to 40 bucks CAN in “Brokerage” fees when the dam thing shows up! I’ve written about 15 emails to UPS without response. The last few have been rather vulgar in content! Note to Matrix if your only method of shipping to Canada is going to be UPS, I will not be buying any more of your products. I refuse to have my packages held ransom by UPS.

McGib -> (6/10/2001 1:16:00 AM)

I certainly hope this is not going to be the case with SPWAW, I will be very disappointed if it is. Anyone from Matrix have any information about this?

Don -> (6/10/2001 4:23:00 AM)

Very intersting - I had no idea about "brokerage fees" and this sounds like a bunch of crap! I bought a computer from Voodoo Computers in Calgary (very, very good gaming rigs :)), and they ship UPS and have mountains of problems shipping to the US AND Canada. One guy in Canada paid extra for Saturday delivery and got the computer the next Tuesday! No apologies, refunds, nothing. Recently a guy in the US got his on time, but it was just a box of parts since someone at UPS had dropped it and said nothing! ARGH! From what a UPS rep told Voodoo, they have 80% of the business in the US and don't have any motivation to make things better. This doesn't explain the horrid service in Canada though, where they don't get most of the business and you'd think they'd be trying harder. Unbelieveable! :mad:

McGib -> (6/10/2001 8:24:00 PM)

bumbing this up, so maybe Paul or David will comment

Paul Vebber -> (6/10/2001 10:33:00 PM)

I don't know! I can't find anything about it other than words to the effect that:

Duty charges vary, based on the destination country and commodity being shipped, and can be significantly more than the shipping charge. Additionally, an extra service fee normally applies for shipper duty payment. Contact Customer Service for additional details on duty charges.
This from DHL's website who we don't use...UPS website makes no mention of this... We are working to get local shipping agents in many popular overseas locale's but if your country is bilging you trying to make you "buy local" and not form the US, then that is something you need to take up with your elected representatives... We can only tell you what it costs us to ship it - you are responsible to find out if you are liable for additional costs that your country imposes on comence withthe US. We have no control of that!

McGib -> (6/10/2001 11:50:00 PM)


Originally posted by Paul Vebber: then that is something you need to take up with your elected representatives...
Ha! Our "Elected officials" just gave themselves on average a 30% pay increase, they wont cut back on any kind of federal income :( But thanks for looking into it just the same Paul [ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: McGib ]

Keebler -> (6/11/2001 4:54:00 AM)

When I first received the Ink refill kit I called Customs Canada and asked them what if any duty could have been charged on the item I had ordered. Canada Customs informed me that based on the quantity of product and its type I should only be required to pay GST. I’ve not been able to get UPS Canada to provide me any information as to the breakdown of the “Brokerage” fee. The UPS bill and customs form attached to the package clearly shows duty paid 0.00. So what the F$%K is this ransom UPS asks me to pay before I get the package. I’m am curious if the info provided by Customs Canada is correct, so I contacted the web-store that sent me the ink refill kit and ordered a second identical package. This time the package will be sent US Postal service. So Canada Post will complete the delivery to me. We will see if how much this cost me now. I’ll let you all know if I got charged any duty. According to Customs Canada only GST should be charged. I’m glad to hear you are trying to establish a distribution source in other countries. I know I have had my fill with UPS. As sad as it makes me I’m simply not going to do business with an retailer that insists on using UPS. My wife who does business on ebay a lot as observed that UPS has repeatedly gouged her on fees on receipt of packages. :mad: [ June 10, 2001: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Keebler -> (6/12/2001 2:20:00 AM)

Would it not be nice if we knew exactly how much the dam shipping would actually cost? It's a corporate conspiracy I tell ya!! Free Trade My Buttocks!! I hope Chretien and Bush choke on their global domination… “Free trade deal” Sort of reminds you of Pinky and the Brain doesn’t it! [img][/img] Take Over The World Should have bought Mirosoft Stock in the 80s [ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Greg McCarty -> (6/12/2001 7:48:00 AM)


Originally posted by Paul Vebber: I don't know! I can't find anything about it other than words to the effect that: This from DHL's website who we don't use...UPS website makes no mention of this... We are working to get local shipping agents in many popular overseas locale's but if your country is bilging you trying to make you "buy local" and not form the US, then that is something you need to take up with your elected representatives... We can only tell you what it costs us to ship it - you are responsible to find out if you are liable for additional costs that your country imposes on comence withthe US. We have no control of that!
:eek: I'm absolutely stunned each time I hear stories like this about the kind of GRAFT people are charged every time a little package crosses a border. Perhaps I am naive, but I would have thought this sort of thing would have diminished by now with all this rhetoric about North American Free Trade. Clearly, socialism is alive and well. I used to think it was peculiar when Canadian friends would cook up elaborate schemes to buy motorcycles down here, and then store them with friends south of the border to be used on their vacations. Now I understand.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (6/12/2001 11:05:00 PM)

hmmm I have never bought anything through the mail, but all this interests me enough to write Macleans magazine and sick a journalist or two on this story at least.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (6/12/2001 11:54:00 PM)

Hmmm just was chatting with a buddy on the phone about all this UPS hooey. Hey what needs to be asked is this.... Matrix has the cd... then they get an order for it..... just what does Matrix have to do with the cd to get it to the costumer really? (I ask because I dont know). I mean legally what are your obligations as a business sending a product to the consumer across borders etc. I belong to the Military Book Club. I get books, (often several books in one mailing) in the mail. I pay at best about 5 bucks shipping. If I had a hidden sum dumped on me at point of delivery I would tell the parties in question to get stuffed. Especially if the cost to get the book exceeded the cost of the damn book. I would tell the person looking to gouge me to enjoy the game he just bought because I wouldnt accept it. But then again, I never send money first then wait for the product. I get the product and then send my money back with my bill (which explains why only impatient fools pre-order anything and then cry about surprises). Now granted I am buying books from a company that is now apparently owned by a US entity, and my books come from a Toronto source. I dont know if UPS has any connection here at all. I am assuming the whole deal is just through Canada Post actually. So of course I am wondering why Matrix has to even give their business to UPS at all. Is UPS needed?....can not Matrix just merely put the cd in the mail and cut UPS out of the picture entirely. I recently sent a girl I know in Australia a cd. The cost to me was about $3.50 after you include my postage and the bubble envelope and the airmail method I choose. True I didnt "sell" her the cd, I merely sent it to her cause I wanted to. But it proves that you can mail something somewhere as light as a cd with no real interest in the cost. When you consider all the horror stories I am hearing about how hard you might find getting the cd to a target buyer. Well I can see Matrix getting stuck with a nice volume of unsold product. I will say it cause I know it has entered at least someones mind. It wont be long before someone pirates the CD and just puts it on the net for free period, no UPS no Matrix nobody at all. I see it all the time. 80% (if not more I am just picking 80% cause it sounds right) of the software I see in my friends possession is this sort of "free". Now I want Matrix to be able to get a nice return on their efforts. I want to see more Campaign software get developed after all. Matrix better solve this boondoggle fast before someone steals the value of their software defacto (it will likely happen anyway). As it goes, I buy all my software regularly as 2-3 year old dead titles with all the add ons in a single collected works package routinely. Just the other day I got East Front, West Front and two add ons from Talonsoft for 24 bucks at the software store. No original literature....oh bummer (add sarcasm here). Software has at best about 3-5 months of shelf life if its lucky. Matrix is burning the candle and not getting the sales they might by the looks of things.

Keebler -> (6/13/2001 2:27:00 AM)

Woe Woe Slow down. I have not yet received the CD from Matrix. I’m just apprising the SPWAW community of my experience with UPS Canada and the whole cross border expense. Once I receive my Matrix package I’ll be sure and post exactly how much it cost me. Coincidentally I just received the UPS receipt for the package containing the ink detailed in my original post. As can be seen from the exert from the bill only 7.08 of the 43.46 I paid was customs required. The bill list COD as an extra cost when the package was pre paid. It turns out I was charged COD on the “Brokerage Fee”. It is my understanding that UPS cannot charge the COD surcharge on GST paid on the package, but they can charge it on their own “Brokerage Fee” So I was overcharged on shipping by UPS in the amount of 36.38 CAN [img][/img] [ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Keebler -> (6/13/2001 2:42:00 AM)

While I was writing the previous post my wife answered the door and received the identical package of ink this time shipped US Post at my insistence. The package got here 3 days sooner, the source shipping charge was less, and here is what my wife paid at the door. Handling Fee $5.50 GST $7.47 ------ Total $12.97 As opposed to the 43.46 UPS charged me. That’s a savings of 30.49 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am SO SO PISSED! Beware UPS Canada is a certified SCAM! Take note Matrix please find a way to ship to Canada with US Postal Service, or you will lose my business. Hell I'll send you the extra 30.49 as long as you get it not UPS! At least I know you will be doing something good for me with it! Hell Matrix ship US postal Service registered, and Insured is still cheaper than UPS!

McGib -> (6/13/2001 3:19:00 AM)

When I first read Keebler's original post I emailed UPS Canada and asked how much of a brokerage fee I could expect to pay on a cd sized package worth approx $55 Can being sent to me from an American company. This was the responce: Included below is our brokerage rate chart. Brokerage is dependant on the equivalent Canadian value. Entry Preparation Charges ·All rates are in Canadian funds ·Rates do not include applicable taxes. Value for Duty - UPS Standard Service & all other couriers / transportation companies $0.00 - $20.00 Free $20.01 - $40.00 $ 6.25 $40.01 - $100.00 $16.75 $100.01 - $200.00 $24.50 $200.01 - $350.00 $31.50 $350.01 - $500.00 $35.50 $500.01 - $750.00 $39.50 $750.01 - $1000.00 $44.50 $1000.01 - $1250.00 $49.50 $1250.01 - $1600.00 $52.50 $1600.01 - $5000.00 $55.50 Each Additional $1000.00 $4.00 Disbursement Fees Customers are responsible for payment of duties & taxes. When funds are not provided in advance by the customer, a fee of 2.5% (minimum of $5.50) of the amount advanced by UPS will be charged. To eliminate disbursement fees call and ask about our pre-payment or EFT options. Additional Services First 5 classification lines are free, each additional line: $3.50/line COD fee for collecting brokerage charges: $4.00 (plus GST $0.28) Release on Minimum Documentation (non-UPS shipments): $10.00 each Import permits: $22.00 each I'm expecting to have to pay an additional $16.75 Can in order to recieve my order. By the time I get the SPWAW:MC cd I'll have spent close to $75 for what amounts to being a add-on for a game. Thats the price I'd pay for a brand new complete game. I have to agree with Keebler on the idea of shipping via registered US Post insured. A friend of mine mails me burned cd's every now and again within Canada and it costs about $1.

mao -> (6/13/2001 6:50:00 AM)

I ship a lot of small packages to Canada from USA so I have some experience... First, there is this little thing called NAFTA - so the CDs (if they are all-US made) should not be dutiable. It is all a matter of Matrix, or their shipper, putting a note to that effect with the documentation. Secondly, UPS Customs Brokerage (as has been noted) is an incredible ripoff. Many people in Canada when placing orders with us specifically request not to use UPS because of this ripoff - which borders on theft (our company policy is NOT to use UPS for Canadian shipments to induviduals unless they request it specifically, and even then we will warn them). I have some experience in international shipping and if any company tried to charge me brokerage fees on a sliding scale, based on value of the shipment rather than a flat fee I would escort them out the door; to my small mind it is criminal behaviour (OK, maybe not ... :D). Remember that this large charge by UPS Brokerage is just for them submitting a form! These days it is probably done electronically!! A $5 charge should be enough. The way to go is to use express air mail or even Global Priority Mail - which is comparably priced and reliable; if a little less secure. But it is a hell of a lot more work for the shipper. But ... if they care about their Canadian customers ... mao who is still waiting for his pre-ordered MegaCampaign :rolleyes: [ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: mao ]

Keebler -> (6/13/2001 7:05:00 AM)

Thanks McGib So now I know that I will have to pay an other $22.20 "Brokerage Fee" plus the TAX on the value of the package to get my package from Matrix. So tax excluded I will have paid 64.43 CAN for shipping two CDs and a T-shirt. That's 27.60US (42.22CAN) shipping paid at source plus 22.20 (CAN) paid on receipt. Just a note on source shipping I got triple charged shipping as Martix's original store front did not handle multiple orders very well. As long as Matrix gets to keep the extra I have no problem with it. You guys do good work. Now maybe I’m wrong but 64.43CAn shipping seems just a little steep don’t you think! So to total all this up I ordered 2 copies of SPWAW 5.0 and a T-shirt, tottal cost shipping incl. will be... $ 176.08 CAN The original value of the goods in Canadian Funds $ 87.60 CAN Thats just a little two much. I'd rather send Matrix a check for 200.00 and pirate the dam thing. TAKE NOTE MATRIX NO MORE UPS TO CANADA! Find something else.

gators -> (6/13/2001 7:24:00 AM)

What would Pierre le Moyne do/say about all this? It actually makes our legislators look like shining lights of reason. That can't be right; can it? --------------------------------------------- It ain't the gun, Sonny. It's the operator. Bob the Nailer

pbhawkin1 -> (6/13/2001 8:43:00 AM)

hi all, I hope that my order to AUSTRALIA doesn't come UPS!!!! I think that I asked for standard airmail, but as the Matrix shopfront wasn't recognising by order/invoice number as valid I can't check (last time I tried was about 7 days ago). Regards Peter

jsaurman -> (6/13/2001 10:15:00 AM)

Hey, I know this is off topic (sort of) but if you live in Canada why are you ordering inkjet refill kits from the USA? You have a great company in Toronto called Nomi Computer Sense. I have ordered from them several times and they are da'bomb! Please note that this is unsolicited testimony, I have no connection with them other than being a very satisfied customer. As for UPS Canada, file a small claims lawsuit against them! They will settle out of court just to avoid the issue being raised in court. It isn't worth the hassle for a big company to fight such a small case. They will just cut you a check. JIM

Keebler -> (6/13/2001 11:01:00 AM)

Thanks for the web link. They don’t carry the photo-color inks for my Canon printer the S450. In fact they don’t even list the S450 at all. The S450 uses the same cartridges as the Cannon 3000 and 6000 series, which they do list but only for black and regular-color inks. I sent them off an email to see if they intend to provide support for the S450 in the future. Thanks again.

McGib -> (6/14/2001 3:08:00 AM)

As I recall when I ordered the MC cd there was some statment or comment to the effect that Matrix insisted on using UPS so they could track packages. With the online store closed at the moment I'm unable to confirm this or not. Is there not some other way for you guys to ship to us Canucks with out us having to pay blood money to UPS? As Keebler said and I agree I would much rather pay you guys a little extra to do it some other way than to give UPS any money they dont deserve. Now obviously your main concern is just to get the cd out the door first, but afterwards may it not be possible for Matrix to look into other methods of shipping to Canada that satisfy's your need of keeping the shipment safe and our need of keeping costs down? After all if UPS pulls this crap on us I imagine that customers in other countries are also going to get the shaft from UPS as well.

Paul Vebber -> (6/14/2001 3:54:00 AM)

We also use the US Postal Service, so alternatives to UPS do exist.

Guardsman -> (6/14/2001 4:06:00 AM)

A while ago I ordered an evaluation of Netware 5 from Novell. The company charged $15 US for the disks and licenses. The software was shipped by DHL to Calgary where I was invoiced $56 CDN. I don't recall the exact figure but there was a considerable brokerage fee included which I have so far refused to pay. Every time DHL sends me a reminder though the amount of the brokerage fee is less and less so I figure I'll just wait 'till it hits zero and then I'll promptly pay it. Anyway guys, watch out for DHL also.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -> (6/14/2001 4:25:00 AM)

well I followed through on my desire to seek out other places to pursue the insanity of UPS. I wrote an email and sent it into Macleans magazine. I dont know if it will see any print but thats not why i sent it of course. I also encouraged them to send it to any potential consumer watchdog options known to Macleans as well. I am sure I speak for just about any Canadian and potentially anyone else that will deal with this UPS piracy. I wont be paying UPS or anyone in the same line of business a "fee" that exceeds the worth of the item in question. Especially when the item can be sent more intelligently for a civil sum of money.

McGib -> (6/14/2001 5:59:00 AM)


Originally posted by Paul Vebber: We also use the US Postal Service, so alternatives to UPS do exist.
In that case Paul is it possible to change an order from UPS delivering to the postal service? I'd much rather have US/Canadian Postal services deliver my order than those pirates at UPS. :)

thor -> (6/14/2001 8:48:00 AM)

UPS is a huge rippoff!!! Ordered PC2100 256meg modules from Crucial and only had to pay GST on delivery. Of course that was FedEX not *bleeping* UPS.

Keebler -> (6/14/2001 9:21:00 AM)

I second that request for US Postal Service. UPS is not in my good books right now. If it is possible I really would prefer to have my package shipped US Postal Service over UPS. If any one at Matrix is reading this how can I insure my order is shipped US Postal Service vs UPS? I have already paid 27.60US shipping. That should be more than enough to cover the US Postal service shipping charge. I know you guys at Matrix have your plate full right now with the first run of CDs going out the door. If this request is at all going to interfere in any way with your work don’t worry about it.

McGib -> (6/15/2001 3:34:00 AM)


Paul Vebber -> (6/15/2001 9:30:00 AM)

Use the Help Desk to enter the request for a change in shipping status.

McGib -> (6/15/2001 10:18:00 AM)

Thanks Paul. You just made my day! :D

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